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Thread: Power usage when switching lights

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    Ummm, I would have thought that was pretty obvious apart where you say it's not good light for your eyes. That is patently false.

    Why would you have an artificial light wasting energy spewing out IR and UV light when it is useless for the purpose of allowing humans to see? That would be dumb.
    The closer a light source is to natural the better so I fail to see where your position of not good light comes from while you are espousing other light sources that are further removed from Daylight Colour temperature as being better.

    Obviously no artificial Light source is natural light. Not Fluro, incandescent or LED. Again, LED is the closest in colour temp to natural light and the narrower the colour temp to 60000K the more efficient and the more natural the light source appears. Everything is balanced in colour to the normal response rate of the human eye at 6000oK and nothing other than led other than some filtered source produces that output other then LED. Given I have never seen 82C colour balancing filters on domestic incandescent lights and trying to balance the crappy Green/Blue and never the same spectral wave length of Fluro, not to mention the flicker, LED is far and away the better light.
    There is No reason to have any extraneous wave lengths that the eye can't see and in the case of UV is not only useless but harmful. The tighter the emissive radiation of a light source to it's desired Colour Temp, the better. Even merc arc Vapour and Halide lights are closer to neutral balance in many cases than Fluro and certainly incandescent Although you don't normally find them in households..... Other than mine! )

    The LED's I just put in can do 4000, 5000 or 6000o Colour temp which is pretty much incandescent to daylight at the flick of a switch.
    Trying to propose fluro or even incandescent is superior to LED output and that LED is somehow a bad light source is just unfounded and incorrect opinion but if you want to argue Different, Provide some evidence otherwise.
    I never proposed that fluorescent lights were any good for eyes. LED lights are even worse. Most LED lighting is harsh and annoyingly on the blue side of the spectrum.

    Here you have a major LED light manufacturer saying exactly what I said and marketing what they claim are improved LED lights. More costly than the common LED lights that are so popular.




    Also many objects flouresce under the UV portion of the spectrum emitting visible light that would be absent under LED lighting.






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    Last edited by RFI-EMI-GUY; 24-05-20 at 06:50 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFI-EMI-GUY View Post
    Most LED lighting is harsh and annoyingly on the blue side of the spectrum.
    Sorry, that again is just your clearly Biased opinion. Looking at the very charts you provided shows that the cool white LED's are outside the human eye sensitivity for the major part in the blue range and the warm leds are, quite obviously, biased to the warm side.... as the graph you linked demonstrates. Also looking at the chart shows incandecent has a much wider spread in the blue spectrum than the LEDS.... as I said which shows they are more efficient in that regard because they are not using power to produce unwanted and useless wave lengths.


    Here you have a major LED light manufacturer saying exactly what I said and marketing what they claim are improved LED lights. More costly than the common LED lights that are so popular.
    Actually what you have there is a lot of marketing hype. They say poor quality lighting rather than specifically LEDS and the sum total of their position is " Some LEDS" while providing no facts or evidence. They are also trying to infer in the main that their Comfort leds are nothing more than the warm 4-5000K colour temp that you can get in any leds.
    I have not seen any LED flicker, the frequency of the drivers and the mains input is well above the acuity of the human eye in that respect.


    The funny part is, while you are trying to prove your side of the argument with that link, it proves exactly what I have been saying. They are talking about warm light, the fact their LEDS can change colour and they have good colour and rendering index... which is hype not a specific measurement.

    I also notice they have some points that are titled " xx% of people believe" . People believe lots of things but ill informed opinion does not change fact or make wrong right.

    If you look at the charts you linked to and compare the output of LEDs to the Visible spectrum and compare it to the other light sources, you see the LEDS are the best matched. As I also said, other types of lighting are spraying emissions all over and far beyond the visual response of the human eye which is wasted energy.

    They mention " Bad Lighting" several times on that page and others but they don't SAY what bad lighting is, only infer and misdirect the gullible reader to think it's any other LED but theirs. Bad lighting far and away in this scenario is dim lighting. Their Globes do nothing different to any other. You can get them in warm or daylight, same as I have in other brands or you can have the output selectable... same as I have.

    As for things like glare and harshness, that's largely baloney as well. Glare is largely from point light sources. That's why there have been lampshades since the electric light was invented. The purpose is to diffuse the light sources into a larger area rather than a point source. Photo Lighting 101. That's why you put a Meter square Fish Fryer over a strobe head.... so the light is radiating from a meter square source instead of a 5 Cm sq source. Photo lighting is also specificaly directed to match the sun's colour temp to produce the most accurate colour rendition of what is being shot. Turning the colour temp down makes things yellow which can be useful when you are trying to give a model a tanned look but highly undesirable when you are trying to show the colour of the fabrics on a Lounge suite or the paint job on that new car. Colour temp meters and gels are used to make sure the colour coming from the lights are as spot on 6000K ( or 4000 in the old days of Tungsten film) as possible.

    Changing colour temp as seems to be the main inference of better lighting on that page does NOT affect glare, it only fools people into thinking it is less glairy by in fact being less effective and bright light. Their point of reducing glare is lowering colour temp. It can be seen on any LED with variable colour temp that the warmer the temp the less Lumens the light produces. Pretty obvious a light that is less dim will appear to have less glare. The same thing could be achieved by using less powerful or just less lights!

    People overwhelmingly have no Idea how to light anything. They will stick a bunch of downlights lights, be they halogen or whatever, right in the middle of a room and then wonder why it is displeasing as a bunch of pinpoint sources. Would be the same as if they put a bare Bulb incandecent in a room with no lamp shade. We have all seen that and how glary and harsh that is. It's not the light source, it's how it's applied that's the problem.

    I put all my downlights in so the light washes the walls 50% of the beam width therefore creating a greater area for the light to radiate from and diffuse it and the resulting shadows. That's the way it should be done the same as people didn't have bare incandescent lamps with out a lamp shade because that was harsh and displeasing. For the lights over the island in the kitchen, They are all in reflectors hanging low so they don't catch your eye direct but reflect the the ( LED) light onto the work surface.

    The laughable thing is Daylight is 6000K the same as daylight LEDS but the argument that is being made is it is not natural or good light or whatever. If it's the closet light source to the the sun, how can it not be the best artificial light source when it replicates the main one we have the closest of all.

    Clearly you don't like LED but the links you put up far batter support what I have said over your position by far.
    Look at the facts not the misleading hype.

    Seems to me that perhaps you have just been exposed to a poor lighting installations/ applications rather than than poor LED lights per se.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' boy View Post
    Maybe Ma Baker will ask about keeping bottles of water in her fridge next or in the freezer to save on cycling start up costs?
    Actually, Ma_Baker is an elderly handicapped gentleman. Forum names can be deceptive.
    Yes I have met him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reschs View Post
    Actually, Ma_Baker is an elderly handicapped gentleman. Forum names can be deceptive.
    Yes I have met him.
    I was making a constructive suggestion.
    I know many who do this
    They also turn thier elec hot water service off at the switchboard to save power usage
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFI-EMI-GUY View Post
    There is nothing I said that is false. LED lighting is a mix of very narrow discrete spectral lines. It is not at all like incandescent or sunlight which are a very wide spectral "noise" comprised of many wavelengths. You mention the electromagnetic spectrum. The sun emits energy all over the EM spectrum, and in fact is used by radio astronomers to calibrate receivers. An LED lamp emits only a small fraction of that spectrum and is "tuned" to mimick what the eye thinks is natural light. It is not natural light, and it is not good light for your eyes.

    Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
    Your highlighted text would probably be correct if you look directly at the light.

    But most of the light you see is reflected light (off walls ceilings etc)... so the spectrum is more diverse or "noisy" and shouldn't make any difference to your eyes.

    No ??

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    here you go Ma Baker
    有段者

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    Quote Originally Posted by freakee1 View Post



    here you go Ma Baker
    Bloody brilliant, thank you very very muchly !!

    Just what the doctor ordered.

    Cheers. Much appreciated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' boy View Post
    I was making a constructive suggestion.
    I know many who do this
    They also turn thier elec hot water service off at the switchboard to save power usage
    What? You can turn off the electric hot water at the switchboard to save on power usage? Does that mean that I am wasting electricity because I removed my electric hot water and installed gas????

    May be I'd better run around and make sure all my empty power points are turned off, too. I don't want electricity to leak out of those.......
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' boy View Post

    They also turn thier elec hot water service off at the switchboard to save power usage
    My Fathers Neighbour has done exactly this.
    He's an expert at spending more money than it's worth on cost cutting methods in order to save money that would have been cheaper to do things the normal way.

    He turned the hot water off and installed a gas Camping/ Caravan type shower on the back verandah and has the shower head going through the bathroom window.
    The thing is powered by a 9 KG swap and go bottle, about the most exy way to buy gas I have seen.
    On second thoughts, the gas shower may save him money. If my suspicions are correct, he probably only showers a couple of times a week if that, so maybe there was a lot of hot water sitting there going cold?

    What I saw last week stunned me. He's also turned off the stove and is boiling the kettle and cooking on one of those camping gas cartridge stoves. There was a stack of empty canisters sitting on the back verandah so he's obviously going through them. Why he wouldn't use a BBQ gas bottle I don't know. That would have to be cheaper than the canisters for the amount of gas/ energy one got for the same money.

    He's trying to set up an off grid system so he can take the house off the mains. He already spent over $6000 on water tanks so he can shut the town water off but still has to pay the access fee. This is a guy living on his own so how long it's going to take him to recover the average $120 water bill when the majority of it was the access fee in the first place I have no Idea but suspect the guy is going to have to live another 100 years to get it back. The way he has set it up is a detriment to the property value not an assett that's for sure.

    Another failed money saver was buying an engine to put on a push bike and fitting that out with saddle bags to go into town to get his groceries and do whatever.
    (km into town and the cops picked him up on the way in second time he used it and gave him a substantial fine. Would have bought him a LOT of petrol in his car and covered his trips for about the next 5+ years.

    So far he's spent over $2K on the off grid power system and mainly bought the wrong sort of gear in batteries and a stupid useless wind turbine. The fact the place is completely surrounded by 150Ft trees and isn't a windy place to start with kinda escaped him. He has NO idea of electricity which is a bad place to be coming from on a project like this. I'm helping him out with it in exchange for him keeping an Eye on my father and making sure he is OK. He's a nice enough bloke, incredible tight arse like his father but the bit that gets me is how willing he is to spend money on things he -THINKS- will save him money but does not look into enough to see they are actually costing him more.

    Never seen anyone spend so much money they will never get back trying to save money when the cheapest option of all would have been to do and spend nothing mainly. Tried to convince him to just put up a bootleg solar system and back feed his analogue meters which would have saved him a LOT but he was fixated on going off grid. I thought it was independence that was the motivator which would be understandable, I like that myself but the fact is, he's convinced what he's doing will be cheaper when it will cost him more than just paying the water/ power bill and be done with it. Maybe he will wake up in 2-3 years if not sooner when his battery's die of if he runs out of water. Good chance if he goes to batteries he'll run out of power in winter unless he's VERY frugal with that but then again, apart from lights ( which he still has incandescent!) the Tv, radio and laptop, I don't think he is using much power at all.

    I guess what he is spending is going to be the cost of education both in off grid power cost and listening to people whom know what they are talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' boy View Post
    I was making a constructive suggestion.
    I know many who do this
    They also turn thier elec hot water service off at the switchboard to save power usage
    I installed a timer on my switchboard for the hws /250 ltr that comes on at 2 pm to 5 pm and we never run out of hot water /2 adults 1 17 y/o daughter and when we have visitors,easy just flick the switch and our bill is under 400.00 a quarter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gulliver View Post
    I installed a timer on my switchboard for the hws /250 ltr that comes on at 2 pm to 5 pm and we never run out of hot water
    Is this to use solar generated power?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' boy View Post
    I was making a constructive suggestion.
    I know many who do this
    They also turn thier elec hot water service off at the switchboard to save power usage
    I was pointing out to you about your reference to Ma_Baker as a female, and she would be making silly future requests.

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    Shit get real who cares about the amount of power.If its dark turn the bloody light on If its too expensive buy more bandaids for your skinned shins you miserable turds lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    My Fathers Neighbour has done exactly this.
    He's an expert at spending more money than it's worth on cost cutting methods in order to save money that would have been cheaper to do things the normal way.
    The person i'm referring to just has cold showers and i have no idea how he does the dishes
    He also has his Wall Oven and Hotplates turned off at the switchboard (Only uses a Microwave to cook) and turns his modem off after every use
    Then i showed how to HotSpot from his phone and he got his home Phone and Internet disconnected also

    He used to buy LED light fitting from Garage Sales, just 1 or 2 at time and ask me to come replace his old style 50w halogen downlights
    I got so sick of going, and told him about the Free Gov Scheme that will replace all his lights, he couldn't believe it...

    2 weeks later he rings me to tell me those people came and replaced every light in his house.... for free.
    I think he sung those praises for the next 12months, i never heard the end of it.

    He has no form of heating, the ducted gas he disconnected years ago
    Has 7 blankets on his bed and one of those WiFi Kwh meters the power companies supply next to his bed so he can monitor every Watt of consumption.

    He also has 4 old Commodores, everyone one on Club Rego
    Never washes them, sells them before they need tyres and replaces them with others

    The irony in all this, he lives in a 2 story, 5 bedroom oceanfront (and i mean nothing but grass, sand and ocean in his front yard) on a huge parcel of land.
    Will always be in the top 10% of house values in that town

    Oh yeah, he also runs his fridge and freezer full of water bottles
    Even though he has set his fridge to run so warm, it would not hold ice cream
    Last edited by ol' boy; 26-05-20 at 09:12 AM.
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    Yeah, I don't get people like that.
    Same as my Dads Neighbour. His father was a Magistrate and a complete and utter tight arse as well. Used to go through the shopping docket every time the wife came home with the groceries and then check the cupboard and give her grief if they had one or some in the Cupboard and could have waited till next week to buy it. Paid his bills on the last possible day so as to not reduce the .1C of interest he may have got on having that money in the bank for that fortnight. Used to change banks Constantly as one would have a better deal than the other on interest rates. Would bring his Ancient Ride on lawn mower over to my father to fix all the time till Dad cracked a shit and said the thing was fked 10 Years ago, i'm not even trying to fix it anymore, go buy a new one. So he spent a couple of weeks researching the very Cheapest pissant mower he could find to mow his 10 acre block. He used to come see dad every Monday Morning... to see if he had finished reading his Sunday paper and if he could have it. Literally too cheap to buy a newspaper.

    The son still uses the same mower now with a plastic garden trailer to haul literally thousands of Kg of fire wood around the property he cuts up. He has Pretty much filled a large 3 Bay shed down the back with fire wood. It's stacked 7 ft high and solid. Never seen anything like it. There is about the same outside under tarps and the mower never stops either cutting grass or hauling wood. Dad says The thing must have been a hell of a lot better than he could have imagined with the work it's done.

    The old guy and the son have asked Dad to come in numerous times to push over trees and pull stumps with his tractor but the idea of buying one instead of water tanks or stupid solar battery setups is something the son would never consider as much as it would be a completely sensible and practical purchase. he or his old man have never offered Dad any money for fuel or so much as a cold beer. Dads not doing any more and has told the son to get someone in as the tractor isn't right for that any more and he's not paying to have it fixed.

    The old man died about 5 years ago at 92. Dad met his sister at the Funeral who came and thanked Dad for all he had done for her brother over the years including looking after him a couple of times when he was crook and doing his shopping and running his errands. She told Dad that he left well over a Million bucks in savings and investments. Dad couldn't help but blurt out what a miserable old tight arse he was which made the sister laugh and fully agreed.

    She got nothing and it was all left to the son who lives there now. We think that rather than leave the money to the son he's on some sort of allowance where he gets so much each week.
    It would be just like his father to try and control the money when he was gone. The son who is in his mid '50s and learned well the ways of the scrooge and keeping up family traditions does not work and says he is on a pension for a bad back. I have my doubts about this. The one thing I'll give him is he is a hard worker and works very hard around the place. Has a thing for cutting down trees and making fires but he never stops around the place. Never even heard him say anything about his back and he works pretty damn well for someone who is injured. I think he's living off the allowance which is fine but unless the allowance is pretty tight, he's sure not pissing it up the wall.

    The other thing that makes me think he could be on an allowance is the fact he has money to spend on home improvements like the water tanks and solar setup. I suspect there is some clause where money to be put into the house is different to him getting his Drips and drops and that's why he has no problem with it.
    He has 2 Cars, a 6 Cyl and a V8 Ute. Surprisingly he drives the v8 and has been trying to sell the 6. Don't know why it hasn't sold. He put new tyres, 12 months Rego and a very fair price on the thing but hasn't had much interest. I'd have bought it myself If I didn't already have one or it was a twin cab. He seems in no hurry though to cash it in even though now the rego is half gone. Does not seem to be concerned about that but worries how much power it might use to boil the kettle.

    He's a good enough bloke, certainly a hard worker and will always lend a hand when asked but his father would be proud how he has followed in his footsteps of being such a painful tight arse.

    Funny you mention the LED light thing. Was just talking to my Neighbour on sunday who told me he had them come in to do his lights. I know he is loaded as well. He was left his Brothers substantial estate some years ago and her Mother Died just before the Christmas 2019 and left his wife everything including the waterfront house at Port Mac they got over $1.6m for. I wouldn't say my neighbour was a tight arse at all but he sure was excited about getting some crappy free LED bulbs/inserts.
    Was keen to tell me all about it so I could get them too and seemed a bit disappointed when I said I had already changed 90% of them when I moved in and did the last 3 Halogens the week before I went away replacing them with the LED Downlights and had bought a box of 30 of them to put in as part of the update renos.

    I bought him an inverter the other week as he asked about all my solar and wanted to add onto his shed. I got the thing for him and he couldn't run and get the money fast enough and must have asked 5 times if that money was right or if he owed me for fuel or something. He and the wife told me a couple of months back that they are getting all the kids over for Christmas this year. They are only giving them one present, The balance of what they owe on their house Mortgages. They told me they are buying a new Caravan and selling the 5 Yo one and that's all they want.

    Might be a shit year but their Kids and their families are sure going to get a nice Christmas present!

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