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Thread: Maximum solar output and generation goals. Warning, long rant. Read at own risk.

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    Default Maximum solar output and generation goals. Warning, long rant. Read at own risk.

    Been adding to and stuffing round with my solar systems since coming here 3 years ago. Started with panels on the shed and eventually progressed to the house after working out Finally how to get on the 34 o pitched tin roof without Killing myself. Wasn't that hard in the end, in fact it was a walk in the park but I thought VERY long and hard about it.

    About 6 weeks ago the daughter helped my put up 6.2 Kw of new panels I found on the north roof I had been saving. As these panels are brand spankers, I thought I'd give them the prime real estate. I made myself a secure tie point out of some unistrut and a shackle bolt and screwed that to 4 of the roofing screws on the ridge capping. Realised when I was up there, The eave is less than a meter off the ground than I can reach anyway so as long as I came down feet first, wasn't going to be a big issue.

    Tied some rope round myself Abseil style and felt Very secure. Put a line of brackets on the lower line of roof screws, pushed up a couple of panels and secured them from a ladder then got up and got the daughter to hook the edge of the panels with a tie down strap and I pulled the other panels up a ladder, onto the roof using the first panels as footholds. Daughter Locked the panels down on the brackets from the ladder. All went very easy and problem free.

    Somewhat how it was done:



    Got the first string up and wired it and the thing was running while we eat lunch. Put the 2nd string up which I had already run the DC for with the other string so that was a bit quicker.


    Over all came up pretty nice and just fitted the roof . Had one 405W panel left over but such is life.
    The Array looks pretty nice and neat which is good because it's the only one Visible from the street... If you are in the precise right spot about 4 houses down the road.



    This made a big difference to the outputs I have been getting being North facing and at the " Ideal" ( a misnomer in itself) winter angle.
    Despite trees everywhere and having the largest and oldest certified in the district in the front yard, there are ZERO shading issues on this roof which is another big bonus.

    When I first put this up 1st week of July I was getting around 4.2 Kw max. I knew winter generation was going to be less, that's why it's winter, but I was hoping for a bit more. This was around solstice so we have been on the up end since. Now on the sunny days when we get them, the array maxes out the 5 Kw inverter it's on for many hours which is great seeing we are still in winter.

    Today this array on the 5kw inverter made a surprisingly efficient 32.7 Kwh. More than I would have expected for this time of year but certainly paints a promising picture for the next 3 months till solstice and the summer till about April when the falloff really kicks in.

    This house is ALL electric. No other energy inputs. nothing for us to suck down 70Kwh+ in a day. Lots of people can't imagine that and say they use less than 20 Kwh a day but inevitably they don't count their gas or wood energy in that. Everything we do including the 24/7 Septic system is electric.
    It can get to -5 here and regularly zero so we do use a lot of power for heating in this Big glasshouse we call home.

    My goal has been to meet our winter energy demands and I didn't think that was possible in practicality till I put up this array and boosted the rear west array. I have about 25Kw worth of panels atm. Not sure exactly, most are 250W panels but I still have a couple of arrays of 190's and 225's and I can't remember which is what and how much they add up to. I think there are about 90 Panels in total now. I have them in 3 different directions and 3 Different tilts. I'm going to take all the little ones down and replace most of them with 250s. I have another 4 Kw to put up in the north end of the west roof. Some of the small ones I won't replace with the others for aesthetic reasons. I'm not chasing every watt I can get any more.

    This is the back of the house facing west. There are still a few panels in a ground array that are going up on the roof soon to make way for the spa and outdoor bathroom area.



    This is the other side of the same roof which I'm going to take some panels up and put down another lot of 250's.





    I'm presently running 3x 4kw inverters and 1 x5 Kw inverter. I may add another 4 Kw yet as I bought a bunch of them about the time I put the north array up. I may need that for the last array when that goes up.... which better be soon before it starts getting too damn hot again up there. More inverters means I have more trackers for each array. I'm going to change the wiring of some arrays That are Mainly in strings of 8 and take them to strings of 10 as I have the room to do that and it makes things easier. I started with 8's and kept with it although I should have thought about it more. Not a big deal to swap them around and re wire.

    I have most of the inverters Overclocked so they come in earlier, Finish later and make something worthwhile when you need it most, in overcast weather. When the sun is bright they just hit their limit ( generally about 100W over rating) and that's it. I have a couple of little 175 W panels I picked up on a car radiator fan that blows forced air over the inverters and keeps them MUCH cooler than they run normally just in convection mode. Forced air cooling always wins. The upside to this is inverters de rate when they get too hot. Mine stay well within tolerance on anything but the most extreme days.

    I'm not worried about the " wasted" power from the over clocking, I have learnt it's getting the things up on their curve and holding them there the longest that makes the real Money. The other reason I'm not that worried about max peak power is I only put in 6 MM cable back to the box and I'm starting to get to the end of it's capacity on the 2 phases I'm back feeding anyway. I do backfeed the Garage Circuit which is only 2.5 Mm cable but found a real handy side effect with that. Because the inverter tends to voltage rise rather than Voltage drop, I can run the compressor and the Plasma and still get Full voltage and don't keep popping the main Circuit breaker in the box. When there is no load the Inverter automatically derates to stay in the limits I programmed in. That inverter did 22 KWH today which is good enough for me. It is connected to about 6.5 Kw of ( pretty old Crappy) panels. I'll upgrade most of those before next winter as well being a north facing roof.

    Yesterday I set a new generation record of 94.1 Kwh for the day.
    Today I upped that having done nothing at all to 97.3 Kwh.

    Pretty happy with that as my goal has been to do 100 Kwh in a day. I thought that may be a good month away at least yet but maybe not. I found today some weeds in front of my ground mount 2.5 KW array ( waiting to go up on the roof) so I cleared them away, trimmed some shrubs that have started to overhang slightly and adjusted 5 panels on the arrays angle. They might be a bit steep but anyway. Probably be good around 30o atm.
    I'm hoping if tomorrow is another nice day, I might get to the 100 Kwh mark. Not a big deal I spose, Once I add more panels I should do that easy but it will at least be the first time I break 100 Kwh.

    For those not familiar with electrical loadings and Capacity's, my power company on the bill says the average 4 Person household uses around 20 KWH of power a day. That means I'll be making enough to supply 5 Normal homes with power for the day ( 24 hrs).

    So why have I done this and gone so over the top?

    Well firstly I have always had a proclivity for electricity ever since a little kid. In my younger years I'd go camping and take a home made generator and had a wiring loom for my tent with external 12V lighting to illuminate our whole came site. Mates laughed the first time I took it but the first time I didn't go and they were in the dark and missed the small fridge I ran, I wasn't such a mad professor after all. In recent times I have built all sorts of generators from regular 240V types, reconfigured car alts, 7 phase axial Flux alternators from washing machine motors and Induction Generators from 3 phase electric motors. That was all getting a bit been there, done that and I'm getting a bit candy arsed and over the noise and stink of Diesels... Much as I love them. Also it's really not practical to run them to make the power I want in semi suburbia.
    Building a 3 phase to single phase IMAG is easy, keeping the bastard quite is a whole other challenge!

    Solar was also new to me and had a LOT of advantages.
    This was one of my first testing batches of panels here.



    Had them there about a month in spring and took a year for the grass to grow back properly. If you want to get rid of weeds out of an area, throw a solar panel over the top, particularly in summer!! The urn was for some DC experiments. Had hot water all the time for Cuppas in that.

    Lots of people have $1500 - $2k Power bills here and also having a real independent streak in me, as well as being a Chronic tight arse, paying for something I can make easily myself does not sit well. I have found playing with this over the recent years a real calming distraction away from my many mental problems and it's been real fun to learn and as usual, see just how many of the parroted Mantras are complete and utter Bullshit. Most of the advise and reconsiderations from the industry are.

    I started off with a few panels and some DC controllers, batteries and Inverters and ran the spare fridge all summer at the old place without a watt of power from the grid. Saved me nothing but taught me a LOT. Next I got given a few GT inverters and hooked them up and spun the old meter backwards. That was fun and satisfied an urge of getting something for nothing. I did that using panels AND a generator which a lot of people will still tell you can't be done. Have the vid to prove it! :0)

    Coming here and seeing how much this place was going to cost to run, I had a meeting with the Wife and daughter, said this is what I think I can do, what do you reckon? There were other power/ cost saving options but we decided on this one. From there I bought more panels and equipment, all used till very recently, and we have been able to live comfortably, luxuriously in some small ways, and never have to worry about the cost. As said, the real Challenge was to make ourselves Virtually self sufficient in winter because summer takes care of itself. I have now done that which is rewarding for me. I didn't think I could practically do it 3 months ago but having learnt a bit more and achieved it, I'm content.

    I am still grid connected and will be as long as I can as it is IMPOSSIBLE to make power cheaper and go it on your own than being on the grid. That said, If Ever I can't be self sufficient or the price of power goes too high, I am well prepared with minor investment to go it alone and still be 100% comfortable if a little more conservative. I now pay a small amount each quarter to keep the power cos happy ( around $200, $100 of which is ( connection fees) which is acceptable to me for using the grid as my battery and the convenience and amenity that affords me.

    People see all my over the top and carried away PV illness and ask what did it cost? That's a multi faceted question.
    Straight up, I put about $2500 into it. Of course we have saved EASILY $1500 a quarter for 3 years. Pretty early on the wife saw what we were saving and spoke to others hearing what they were spending on power and whatever I wanted I got without question.

    Getting carried away with this as usual, I have developed a skill in finding panels and gear. I got all the panels I wanted but then kept tripping over stuff and having it given to me. The last couple of months I have just been wheeling and dealing, buying some things and making contacts to get equipment, 90% used, and on selling it. In the last 6 weeks alone I have made just over $2K so I guess I have returned 4/5ths of my cash outlay investment right there. This is picking up to be a nice little side business with every customer so far being either a repeat client or giving me referrals, mainly both, and it's one of the few things I enjoy and can apply myself to.
    Going to the country to see Dad has become profitable. I take up all I can carry in the ute for advanced orders now and make about $1000 a trip. Upgraded Dads system so He can run all his ac units this summer and stay cool as and pay less than half of what he was before he got them. That's rewarding.

    The real thing for me is the satisfaction of not having to give a FK about the power we use.
    Don't care if the Daughter is in the shower till she comes out like a shrivelled prune and I'm not one to take quick showers myself after a good days work, Don't care if the women want to run the dryer for 2 hours for 2 articles of clothing they could have hung out all day, I don't care how long we run the arse off the AC to keep us warm when it's 5o or 45 outside, don't care if Guests leave the door open.... when we could have people over.... Remember those good old days?
    There is also a degree of independence.

    Just not having to worry and the domestic arguments it saves is worth every damn cent 10X over to me.
    I will admit, after a life time of having it ingrained, still shits me no end when they leave Lights on in rooms they are not in... even when I know they are LED and using 9W or less! :0)

    I don't have any battery's other than a couple of little setups I built in paranoia in case the power went out because of the China Flu but I do have a couple of arrays wired so if the power did go down for... a day or week, I could quickly and easily power the place up to a reasonable degree off the solar and pretty much power the houses either side as well with generator power. A trade off from my last proclivity, Veg fuel, I can run the genny for nothing. Moved 400L of processed oil today with the tractor... that runs on oil as well.

    See how the weather goes tomorrow, If' it's the same as today, I'm confident I'll crack my 100KWH generation mark.
    After that, not sure where I'll go with this. Got some ideas for developing some simple and cheap off grid controllers so might play with them till I find another interest to throw myself too far into.

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    nice work mate , but when you mention overclocking , do you mean overvoltage ( into the inverter ) ? I thought the max voltage printed on the label was the limit of what could go in , otherwise you toast the inverter?

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    You are absolutely correct, you can't over volt them although I have heard a lot will just shut down. Haven't tried it myself to take the chance.
    Some years ago I ran an IMAG generator into a GTI and due to the characteristics of an IMAG which I was still learning about then, I over volted it ( and everything else!) severely and blew the tracking out of it.

    A prescribed practice is to also allow a very generous Voltage margin on the inverter to the panel output to allow for cloud edge effect. This is where the clouds act like magnifying glasses on the suns rays and you get much higher outputs than the light levels would normally produce. Panels Normally have a linear Voltage and ivariable amperage output. In other words in low light, say early, late or overcast they will still do 37V average for a 250W panel the same as they will do in peak sun. It's the wattage/ amperage that differs. In low light they may do 1A at 37V and in full sun they will do 8A , but still at 37V.
    With cloud edge effect, that Voltage will rise to maybe 40+. I'm not sure of the reason why, probably a ramp up in one of the radiation spectrums the panels are sensitive to but the effect is very noticeable. It can happen when the sun is peaking round a cloud but I see it more in light hazy conditions. It can last a while.

    I get that a fair bit where I am and the whole thing can get a bit nuts. It was happening the other day. My main inverter kept shutting down on AC over voltage. I suspected the cloud was pushing all the solar around the area high and taking out my inverters on that phase. Voltage checking showed that was right with the incoming voltage being over spec at 258V from the mains. We get higher voltages here, even at 3 in the morning when there doesn't tend to be a lot of sun to blame it on solar as the power co's are want to do to cover their lack of control and maintence of the system. I have never seen under voltage here and I did have a data logger running for a long time. Lowest I ever saw was Spec, 230V.
    With the Cloud edge pushing everyone's inverters up and making them wacky, when my Inverter tried to push a bit more in, it was hitting 262V and causing the inverter to trip. I didn't look at the DC voltage but I'd guess it was well up on the 380 input that one normally runs on it's 500V max input rating.


    In my terms, over clocking is over watting. IE, Putting say 6KW of panels on a 4Kw inverter. The certified allowable standard is 33% which gives the common 6.6Kw of panels on a 5 Kw Inverter but I go over that to whatever suits. I have one inverter on double the panels for it's rating and it's been like that 2 years and I have had no problem at all.
    The one precaution I do take with all my inverters is fan Cooling. I'm a BIG believer in that. Heat does no electronics any good and these inverters can run real hot especially on a warm day so I have fans on all my inverters to keep them cool as possible.

    I am usually well under the max DC input voltage, somewhere around the 280-350 V mark but you can parallel strings to get a higher wattage of panels.
    Far as I can tell you can put any amount of watts you want and the inverters ( all I have tried and that's about 10 different ones now) the inverters will just peak and ignore the rest of the input.

    I do this so as to get the max out of the inverters. Untill fairly recently I had trouble sourcing good used inverters but panels are easy. Inverter failure is why most systems get replaced so they are more scarce. Bu putting on more panels, The inverter will kick in earlier in the morning, Reach max output faster and stay there longer and then go later in the day. Will also do a lot better output in crappy weather.

    The other thing is adding another inverter can make the output peaky. For me, I rather have say 15 KW cranking most of the day than a peak of 25KW in the middle from more inverters.
    The reason for that is my main solar circuit back tot he board will handle 9kw per phase. I'm running on 2 phases so that's a total of 18 Kw capacity. If I had to allow for a ( short) peak of 25Kw, I'd have to go up another cable size and that's starting to get complicated with running it and hooking it into the board.
    By running less peak/ total output but running it much longer, I can output the same total KWH ( or more) with no problems and not have to go nuts on the size of the cable and breakers etc.

    I am of the belief that inverters have been built for some time with minimal heat dissipation capacity.
    On a cool winters day they will run flat out and still be just warm. On a hot day, say only 10-15o up from the winters day, the inverters can be 30-40o hotter and go into thermal power limiting to protect themselves. For this reason I have fans on all my inverters. That helps prevent them backing off on hot days and me loosing output and 2 I believe will allow them to have a longer life span.

    On my inverter in the shed I have a temp sensor that Kicks in an AC fan when the thing gets to 40oC. On the other ones I have a car radiator fan attached to a couple of old panels on the roof. This system is perfect. The higher the solar radiation, the more the inverters produce as does the panels on the fan and the harder it blows. Perfect linear control!
    I'm going to set up this system on the shed inverter as well as I like the " something for nothing" aspect of it and I have a few cracked panels I can use and plenty of radiator fans.
    I also have a couple of fans in the shed window on some old broken panels. Been there 3 years and the panels still work fine. I'd never put them in an array but for low voltage they seem to work great and I haven't seen any problem with water ingress or other damage which I was totally expecting.

    I also put a couple of radiator fans in the manhole in summer and run them off some panels. The manhole is in the laundry and my mate in AC says keeping the ceiling temps low make a BIG difference to keeping the house cool. He's normally very " eye rolling" at my DIY stuffing around but when he saw this one he said " That will make a Big difference to keeping the house cool" which was a real stamp of approval from him. The roof is double insulated under the tin and with batts on the ceiling and I have never measured the temp Difference with and without the fan. All I know is the fans push a LOT of air up there and if mate approves, then that's good enough for me.


    Weather didn't play nice for my 100Kwh day yesterday. Pretty cloudy most of the day and I was surprised to make 60 kwh. If I had to guess I would have said 40 so a bit of a bonus there anyway. Looks like today will be the same. Checked the main inverter at 9:30 am when it had been sunny and already had made 5.3 Kwh just on that array alone. Thats the benefit of over clocking ( as I call it).
    When I looked it was only doing 3.5 Kw but all the lower end ramp up accumulates and the more you are doing and the faster that ramp up to full output the better.

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    Got there Yesterday.
    My first day of 100Kwh Generation. Made 102.4 Kwh.

    Bit of a surprising jump over the last high given I didn't change anything but pull a few weeds but I think the sunny day combined with the cold winds made the difference. May have kept the panel temp down and let them really make some power.

    No where to go from here now. More power than I can use so no need to up it any more so have to find some other goal to achieve. ;0)

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    I use a few of these to store power and use at night Mainly for outdoor led lighting and TV as we spend most nights under the pergola with a gas fire going..
    I picked a few of them up cheap.. 3-4 years old when I got them and still going strong..


    Last edited by Johnno; 21-08-20 at 10:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    Got there Yesterday.
    My first day of 100Kwh Generation. Made 102.4 Kwh.
    Not sure how much of that you are using/exporting but make sure your mains are up to the task else you may increase your mains voltage too much and cause other issues.
    Don't worry, it only seems kinky the first time.

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    The problem with batteries is the cost. If you can get them cheap enough that they can repay their investment then all good.
    I am always amazed at people that buy these home batteries to save money when they can't actually save enough power over their lifetimes to offset their investment. Either people don't do their homework or they fall for the BS sales pitches or probably both. I have seen a lot of BS number fiddling to make them seem like they can produce savings but it's all slight of hand.

    If you can somehow get batteries cheap ( and on average they need to be 20% of their current price or less) then they are good. Paying current retail on things like Tesla and LG batteries is a Crock.
    A guy I talk to in the US is offgrid and uses batteries like yours and gets on average 5-6 years out of them. For what he pays, they are very good value. He charges them with a small solar array and has a Lister for backup in bad weather. The key with any batteries is DOD. the less you pull out of them the longer they last.
    A lot of guys I talk to on electronic and off grid forums are now going light on batteries and big on solar panels. Like yourself they are only putting in enough battery to get them through the night with a workable discharge level and then using the solar to bring them up in the morning. With enough panels they can get by in all of but the worst weather and even then, a good array minimises generator time or can do the final top off without the genny.

    Batteries are still ( for most people) more expensive than panels, particularly used panels so this approach is the most cost effective.
    The other thing is with enough panels, you can do all your power intensive work during the day as the panels will provide the power and the batteries will just act like ballast in the system and stay at full charge all day and be topped off when the sun goes down.

    I'd like to play more with batteries but I can't justify the cost. If I ever did happen across a suitable amount at the right price I could be swayed however.
    I was recently talking to some people that were saying they have found that programming their controlers with a wider float margin seems better. In other words, the point at which they charge then drop to where the charger cuts in again rather than constant float seems to work better where the batterys are more standby and seldom used like in holiday shacks etc.
    The idea is that giving the batterys some Cycling stops calcification and other problems and even seems to work better with Lipos and the like. It's said to be akin to sitting in a chair all day then having to get up and do hard work. Better to be up and moving around then get into it than trying to do it from a dead start.

    If I were to go to batteries, I'd be going for forklift packs. Yes, they are the untrendy lead acid but offer a LOT of benefits still over the newer types that are flavour of the month. They are cheap, a reliable proven technology and worth good money end of life as scrap. They are also heavy and bulky but who gives a damn when they are for stationary use?
    I have spoken to people with them that use the automatic watering systems and they check on them every 2-3 months to top up the watering system tank ( and they don't seem to use much water anyway) and give them a look over.

    If I did go battery, I'd also change to heating with oil as the main load is heating and at night and it would take a couple of big packs to keep up with that. Summer wouldn't be such a problem as there is so much sun/ power anyway. I have been looking and and discussing ideas with co gen with some others as well. This is where rather than burn the fuel be it liquid or gas in a heater, you burn it in an engine, remove the heat and put it to work and then you still have the mechanical power to drive a generator or AC compressor.
    Would work with great efficiency in winter when you want the heat but not so much in summer when the heat requirement is minimal. We have been looking at absorption AC where the heat is used to make cold basically.

    Doable but no where near as easy as with compressed refrigeration.
    Still, if one looked at the overall efficiency of a co gen setup, one is getting far better bang for the buck doing it this way particularly in the climates that are further from the equator.

    Seems rather amazing that you could burn an amount of gas in an engine and get the same amount of heat out as if you burnt it in a heater and you also get the mechanical power where you could say drive a generator and get even more heat out through the electricity.

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    Yep, I fully agree with you if you had to pay full price you'll never offset the investment.. I paid cheap cheap - came across a wealthy couple who have more dollars than sense who purchased new batteries for their home system and off loaded there old ones to me.. lol
    All my batteries are charged by solar panels that I installed myself. I also have a home solar system installed by some company with a feed-in-tariff of 0.72c. Yes that's right.. 0.72 cents at the moment, It was 0.80c but it dropped.. I'm always receiving a credit off my electricity provider.. lol My house solar system has paid itself off many years ago. I'm a little lucky when it comes to petrol.. Lets just say I can take as much petrol as I need for my generators during winter and no one says anything.. lol
    I also have a stack off these batteries below running a water pump and lighting in my garage, picked them up for $30 each and still working well too.. Heavy mothers to cart around..

    Last edited by Johnno; 21-08-20 at 07:56 PM.

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    What do you pay for the power you buy?

    Is your FIT some sort of legacy Deal? I have never heard of a FIT that high. reduced or not, it still seems a good deal.... depending on what your power cost is.... but if you are getting a refund.... who cares?

    The batteries are quite good. 4c discharge rate so you can pull some decent current out of them. What is your voltage and capacity and what size inverter you run?

    My mate was in early many years ago,10,12? with solar when his $8K interest free loan 1.5 KW system came with a 60C fit. A year before that ended, we put up some more panels and I was given a bunch of NOS Inverters which were the exact same one he had so we wired in one of those . We more than doubled his system wondering if the party would be over prematurely with his first bill but they never picked up on it and he made $1500 that last year. He did supplement it some on weekends with an IMAG generator we put together he ran on the biodiesel we used to cook up but that was just a bit of icing on the cake and no where near the solar input. one of the the profit wasn't bad when it was him and his 3 Teenage sons living with him.

    It did take a bit to get his money though. It was paid as a credit and the power co were supposedly going to deduct that off his bill. As he'd had a credit every bill to some degree, he argued the point they would never have to pay it and put in a complaint with fair trading when they refused to give him the cash. He didn't get to mediation or whatever they call it, a nice Cheque just arrived.

    When the 60c fit ended I think it dropped back to .11C. Couple of the kids had moved out by then so consumption was down but mate got a bill and wasn't happy. Got a new system put in by a dodgy company that after 3 Visits, still wasn't working. I dropped in out the blue, had a look and fixed the unbelievable amateur errors. Somehow, they managed to wire the panels back to themselves and the inverter as well. Yeah, can't DIY solar, need professionals to install it... my arse!

    I'm happy using the grid for a battery but that won't last forever. These smart arse meters are destined to be installed and that will screw my party. I make so much power now and I'd be happy to give them the excess if they gave me a nil bill and let me pump the power back but they are too greedy so that won't happen. I might be OK if I can go on a flat rate instead of TOU setup but I have heard they are trying to get everyone on that too. If that happens, then I might be on batteries as well.

    When I have to change meters, I'll look at seeing how I go with a small legit setup and getting approval for a larger one so I can hook what I have in. I'm not sure if the limit is 10 KW on 3 phase or 5 KW per phase. Seems to vary with each pack of thieves. I read in some places now they are limiting people to 5 KW total and even 3.

    I'm setting up with going to batteries either fully off grid or supplemental in mind so if I do have to go that way, I'll have a head start. If I could remove the heating load, I'd be OK well and truly. I was going to go to an oil heating setup this winter but putting up the new array has covered us so far. Oil powered heating would make a HUGE difference to our power consumption though.
    I could also look at putting in more panels and using the power to heat water through the day to use as thermal energy storage at night for home heating.

    2x 400L tanks at 90o down to 30o is 55Kwh so that would be ok. I could also plumb in an engine on a co gen system on a heat exchanger for the real crappy days or run it at the same time I was heating and have endless capacity both in direct heat and power for battery charging or electrical heating.

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    Your getting old mate... I've told you about it before..... And I don't think you believed me then. 0.72 FIT and it's lasted over 10 years..

    It was much higher about a year ago and I pay 0.26 Peek & 0.16 Off peek for the power I buy.

    What can I say...I'm just a special guy the extra credits covers my Gas bills and that is why I care.

    Last edited by Johnno; 22-08-20 at 12:09 AM.

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    To charge my batteries I just use a few of these.. They seem to do a good enough job... My home system inverter is a 5kw Xantrex - It's only ever played up once - the display panel died within the warranty period.

    Oh, I paid cash for my home system...No credit/pay back scheme from the power Co.. Although the Government did pay half on some special offer at the time. Also, My Kids left home many moons ago.
    Now I have a step Daughter living here.. She's Glued to her phone, never hear from her.. lol

    Last edited by Johnno; 21-08-20 at 11:34 PM.

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    I have a mate at work that is still on the PFIT. Gets his 60 odd cents per kw. His PFIT only has 2 years left on it then he will be on the same as the rest of us. The difference is he paid more for his 1.8kw system than I did for my 18kw system. However this was some 14 or 15 years ago.
    I believe PFIT will end in the next 4 years time for the people that installed right at the cutoff.


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    That's right irwazza, There are still a few people getting 0,60c Plus.. My parents gets 0.66c FIT and they only have a 3KW system. I organized their installation after I purchased mine.
    Yes the initial purchase cost was a lot more expensive (10K for mine) but the Government paid half so it works out it only took me roughly 3 years to get my money back, after that it has been all profit.

    I'm sure George doesn't have Gas and only relies on Electricity so what he is doing is perfect.. Although No Power company will allow his setup to be hooked up to them as feed back,
    I'm sure there's a limit of 5kws or maybe 10kws for country areas.
    That's where batteries come into play - I'm slowly building up my stock of batts for when I lose my FIT, Which I think is 15 years from install. /not sure could be 10yrs and they've forgotten about me..

    Anyway - I pay No Electricity and receive credits which end up covering my Gas Bill... All I need now is to setup a couple of water tanks so I can reduce my water bill..
    Last edited by Johnno; 22-08-20 at 09:11 AM.

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    I’m on Powercor (Regional Vic) and we are allowed 5kw per phase on a domestic property. My 15kw inverter is overclocked to 18kw.
    Fully ducted reverse cycle that never gets turned off and the power company paid me $1k last year
    I don’t have the issues getting money out of them. I just email and tell them how much I want. Within 5 days the $$ is in my account.

    My hot water is currently instantaneous gas which I fill my own bottles at the servo. Costs me about $20 in gas per month.


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    Hehe.. Good onya mate.. In Summer I run the Electric Air con and forget about it... In Winter I run the Gas heating and forget about it.. Too easy

    I switch my providers every 2-3 years.. I'm not loyal any of them.. I go where I can get the best price.. That includes House, Car Insurance and all the other bills I have..

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    Perfect. Yep I am the sam, no point to being loyal any more!
    A bloke at work has changed to one of the new wholesale power companies, amberelectric I think. So far he believes he has saved 50% from his previous supplier (early days) I will be watching this with interest..


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    Quote Originally Posted by irwazza View Post
    The difference is he paid more for his 1.8kw system than I did for my 18kw system. However this was some 14 or 15 years ago.
    Sounds like the same deal my mate was on. I think his 1.5 system was like $8k but he's an ( intelligent) environmental type and crunched all the numbers real well and knew what the payback was going to be. Only thing he got wrong was it worked out a bit better than he thought and did better with it than anticipated. He set up remote monitioring and logging which was quite a new thing back then. We had to run a network cable through the walls and ceiling back to a little logger box which attached to his computer which took some to get working but gave him all the info.

    Systems have certainly dropped in price but a lot of that is due to the subsidy's which are now falling off each year.
    Unlike home battery systems, solar has a good ROI even at the lower FIT's now being offered.

    I looked up some " Energy Plans" ( What a stupid fking term!) and for the greater part, the higher the FIT, the higher the buy in price. The deal Johnno has is unreal and I'd be hanging on to that one for some time. The pricing structures do vary endlessly especially from state to state. The power cos are all bringing FIT's down claiming over supply and power getting cheaper at the wholesale level but I don't see the price coming down in any proportion to what the FIT's are.


    Looks like another sunny day here. I'll have to go shut my main inverter down. Getting way too far ahead on one phase and I don't want to be ahead for the next meter read.

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    In Melbourne they're advertising a 6.2 Kw system on Tv for $2700.00 after the Government discount - I might grab it and be ready for the future when my FIT does cut off..

    Also I missed out on the Water Tank deals a few years ago.. Problem is I need a coupe of those flat pack tanks not the ugly round one's - not enough room in my suburban home.. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnno View Post

    I'm sure George doesn't have Gas and only relies on Electricity so what he is doing is perfect.. Although No Power company will allow his setup to be hooked up to them as feed back,
    Yep.

    People are frequently amazed or disbelieving at the amount of power we use but we are ALL electric, no gas, no wood heating and our Climate is pretty extreme and then there is the 24/7 Sewerage plant that on it's own pulls over 4 Kwh a day. What we use is not at all unusual for the area. Some use a bit less ( neighbour has wood heat and bottled gas stove) some use more ( BIL round the corner whom uses a ton of gas as well.)

    As for hooking up under a legit FIT deal, I am wondering about that. I believe they are so damn disorganised ( and greedy) I could just claim the system was here when I got here and they probably wouldn't even worry about inspecting as Long as they got the business. Maybe not, I'm in no motivation to put it to the test but I reckon I have half a chance of selling it..... as Long as I lie my arse off about how much I have.
    If it doesn't wash, then my plan is to get a small system put on with approvals for the max I am allowed and then go from there.

    In reality the inverters I have aren't that much over anyway. I could always upgrade to larger inverters and then just program limited feedback. As I could probably do the max allowed most of the day and still have more than enough power to run everything in the house, from what I have been able to calculate I may even be better off than I am now.... But that depends on still getting a few slights of hand through and I never consider myself Lucky.


    Have you checked the float voltage with your charge controllers or set it to where you want?
    Those ones are notorious for having too high a float and cooking batteries. They are also NOT MPPT as written on them, they are just PWM. I have a few of those myself and they do an OK job particularly if you have excess panels for the amount of batteries you want to charge but if you want best performance genuine MPPT's will make up a fair bit of ground.
    Unlike the PWM's which just drag the panels down to the battery Voltage which may ( pretty much always) be way off their curve, the MPPT's keep the panel in it's happy place where they make most power.

    I find the PWM's fine myself, just have to make sure they are not doing some stupid float voltage that will kill the batteries in short time.


    Be VERY careful of those cheap Deals! They are inevitably not what they promote and there are hidden costs.
    Often the installers are NOT qualified, they are more likley backpackers that have been given 15 Min training. They usually want payment up front, Do not go there, almost a sure sign they are dodgy. Check the background of the company CAREFULLY. Do an ASIC search at leasy and look at the solar sites. There are a lot of scammers that run for a year or 2 and when the claims stack up they just fold the biz and open under another name. Euro solar, arise, modern and a few other names are all companies a Dodgy Indian crunt has run and now being barred from holding a CEO's position, his wife is " running " the company. Same tactic, same scam.

    Check exactly what you are getting and make sure thats what they install not bait and switch. Don't get sucked into the scam of panels with 25 Yr warranty. They are in effect by remedy meaningless. Go for a good middle of the road panel and put the saving of better panels into a better inverter. Inverters fail much more often than panels and they are worth getting a good one. Make sure you check the credentials of the people doing the install. I would literaly ask to see their licences before I let them do a thing and take a pic of them as well. Also when you are discussing the install in the first place, ask if they come to your home to inspect. May will say they will look at a google earth pic. If they can't come out and do a proper site inspection to show the potential problems ( Your circuit board, roof pitch actual size etc) tell them to forget it. Solar forums are full of people who signed up for a deal ( and naively paid money up front) only to have installers turn up and discover a bunch of problems and have to change the system or the price. Always ends up the customer gets less or pays more. If you want a new screen door or a blind they will send someone to measure. If they can't be fked doing a proper site inspection for something like solar, they are almost guaranteed to be fly by nighters.

    If possible go for a local company with a premises in town that have been doing it a while. Odds on they won't be the cheapest but when your inverter falls over or there is some problem, they won't be telling you they won't have any9one in the area for 3 weeks.... which will blow out to another month and more excuses.
    Be extremely wary of online reviews., Most of them are fake and the complaints never see the light of day.

    Solar atm is FULL of fly by night scammers so expect the worst and hope for the best and do your homework well and truly before hand.

    There are good installers out there but the ones doing the low price deals are guaranteed not to be some of them. Personally, I'd be looking for a 6.6 system around $4k. I have accounts with some of the solar suppliers and when you look up the cost of materials, even the cheap stuff barely adds up to the advertised price of some of these deals. That's just on Panels, Inverter and racking. Add in all the wiring and labour.... comes no where near being viable.
    To get anything decent and with installation from someone that knows their arse from their elbow, you NEED to pay $4k not to get ripped off basically.
    I have looked into a lot of these deals and read about them on forums and it's clear one is just asking for trouble going near them. There have been a lot of these scammers that have been racking up big credit bills with their suppliers and getting the materials basically free so they are working both sides of the fence.

    Seen these dodgys first hand with my mate. If they sucked him in I have to think there are some real sharks out there to be wary of.

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    Yep, mine are MPPT maximum power point tracking technology function, although you are correct the charging mode is PWM. I've known about this AND after reading one of your earlier posts on a different thread I had to adjust the float voltage to 13.2v on one unit. It came pre set at 14.4v. I'm always checking the float voltage to make sure it's consistently on the setting I programmed. So far all good. The last unit I purchased was set perfectly from factory and I haven't touched it (13.3v)

    Everything is going well with my setup, Do remember I only use the batteries for outdoor Led Lighting under the Pergola, Verandah, Shed and Garage with a heap of garden lights which run all night on a timer and some 12v appliances that i have around the shed and garage. I've also hooked up some Emergency Led Lights in the house in case we lose Mains Power. Which we occasionally do - I'm the only one in the street with power when that happens.. It's great to see the neighbor's ask why is your power on ? LOL I keep telling them I've built a portable nuclear fusion reactor.. LOL None of my solar panels can be seen from the street.

    Once I get motivated I'll do a check on the company selling these solar systems on TV - It's hard at the moment as Melbourne is in stage 4 lock down and no one can enter your home, not even friends or solar install inspections.. It's just me and the Tv remote control for about 4 more weeks..LOL
    Last edited by Johnno; 22-08-20 at 12:40 PM.

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