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Thread: Bedford 466 diesel engine in a...

  1. #21
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    I'm thinking more like half Mill BUT, While I understand why they would want to keep it going, I'd have to wonder if it's the most profitable strategy. One would have to look at the production and reliability factor.If a new one drills faster, uses substantially less fuel and has a lot less downtime, as long as one has the work it may well be worth taking on the debt... especially now. If the process is just the same and no big difference, then if this one can have decent up time then the question would get more difficult. While an engineering Marvel in hackery, The efficiency looks terrible!

    Mate of Mine Just bought a 24M Crane. Got the thing for $15K less the Bogies for the trailer. This is in excellent condition and a lot of life in it yet. With the China Flu, some Businesses are being wiped out and having to Liquidate while others are steaming ahead. He's bought a bit of gear of late as even some new stuff has fallen in price as have sales.
    Business is a constantly moving platform and right now I think it's like trying to stay standing in an earthquake.

    The thing that's lucky I think with this setup is it is so old. There are SO many parts and bits of machinery that are not available now it's not funny. I'm sure a lot Newer stuff than this could easily be sidelined by parts Unavailability. Something like this that could be fabricobbled with a lot of old bits that could be had would be an advantage to a point.
    Maybe these guys should buy a new rig and run it with this one and expand operations. :0)



  • #22
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    Maybe these guys should buy a new rig and run it with this one and expand operations. :0)
    Not 'guys' ... this rig is run by the operator/owner, single-handed, and the bloke is in his 70's...no joke.

    While an engineering Marvel in hackery, The efficiency looks terrible!
    Not really ~ the going rate for this machine is $60/foot ; before this breakdown, I've personally seen it do 100foot down in a little under 2hours. That's not a bad earner in anyone's book.

    That makes the Wallis Gearbox at least 90 Yo and the prefect is still a spring Chicken at only 60 Yo. When was this beast Built? Probably no one who built it still alive to remember!
    It was built just after WW2 by an ex-Army engineer, who passed on many moons ago. The current owner/operator used to be the original builder/operator's off-sider, and bought the rig off him -- that'd be like buying your life's vocation in the same act. It's worked out pretty well for him in the end, he's still alive, the machine hasn't killed him, and it can still make over 10grand in a day.

    This thing is probably worth more as collector parts than it's replacement cost as a drill Rig. I thought one of those Diffs looked big, Probably a 9". More value in parts there.
    Yep, 9" ford diff in the back, welded shut. I was having this discussion with my mate while we were pulling the gearbox ~ what happens to this machine next? We'd like to hope & think it'd end up at a local farm machinery museum (there's one of these museums in town), but chances are it'll end up in the scrapper's yard and be cut to pieces by a gas axe (for any Canadians reading this, 'gas axe' is an oxy-acethlyn cutter torch, not a chainsaw =) Indeed, part of my motivation here is so that some online reflection remains ; not many people care about this shit anymore.

    I totally understand why someone would keep that machine going - replacement cost of same beast now would be a couple of million i reckon
    That's right, and you can't do a cut/fit/shut/make it work type repair like the unit's been subject to all it's life ~ you'd be locked into a replace with same type repair. On a good site, this rig can return $10k/day easy, and it's pretty much booked out for the next year (not joking).

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    That is all truly Impressive.
    Man working at that age, able to make that sort of Money on something so old.
    It is a good story. Its easy to forget circumstances and application and just think of things in a " Corporate " mentality. That can be so much more to things like that.

    The thing is a monster BUT, It would be sad that something with that sort of history just got cut up.
    You also make an excellent point about repair. One would be locked into a single brand, their ( undoubtedly extortionist) prices and Vagaries of part supply.

  • #24
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    Current state of play, and things not mentioned -- when we drained the gearbox, metal did drop out...but only about 2litres of milky, rusty 'oil' came out along the way, and, that oil smells suspiciously like 95-140, which destroys the brass parts in the box. Which is neither here nor there, considering that only 3rd gear gets used, so you don't have to rely on syncros to swap cogs anyway. In fact, not even the clutch gets used behind the beddy - it's always in 3rd at startup and shutdown. I know the diligent viewer would say..."but how is that so? The flywheel face is cracked and scorched to the buggery"....true, but in effect it's being used as a slipper clutch ; anytime anything downstream of the gearbox locks up, the main clutch slips into overload...remember, locked in 3rd gear, m'kay? =) I think I took a pic of the clutch...here



    Anyhoo... as the story goes (coming from those who are still alive to retell it =), this particular gearbox was always a bit tragic with regard to destroying 3rd gear & the 2/3 synchro hub...even in 'normal' duty, and as it was the gearstick was held in 3rd with a piece of fencing wire, to stop it jumping out of gear. Of course, with the selector fork continually thrusting 3rd cog in one direction, and coupled with (years?) of an underfilled box of the wrong oil, the brass thrust washer is long gone between 3rd gear and shaft retainer, and had started to rotary weld itself to the face of the retainer...ugh...and it's needle roller bearing is toast. You end up without options and only choices -- ignore this mess & put it back together until 3rd gear destroys itself... again (this is the 3rd gearbox after previous 2 did exactly that), OR, fix it now while we've got it apart, and be sure we'll get another 5+ years out of it (this box has been rebuilt once before, so the rest of the bearings are still good).

    You'd think that'd be a no-brainer, but fact is it could make more sense to -not- fix it, and push it back into service knowing it'll lunch on itself in a year's time, because in that year it would have made 'x' amount of money ~ it can be a tough call. We've concluded to rebuild the thrust face of 3rd gear, shout it a fresh bearing, and while we're at it replace front/rear main seals so the oil stays >inside< the box, and not on the belly pan (the rear seal had been cooked by the fire last year, in fact I think it caught fire itself). The gear is done, fresh thrust washers cut (arbitrary sizings, we may have to do a bit of linishing), and we sources the seals easy enough, but unfortunately we can only get the bearing for the US, which (hopefully) will be here Friday, but right now it's anyone's guess.

    To put a right twist on this story, my mate & I only ended up doing all this work, because we can -- and my mate's saving money in process ; the rig broke down on his property, and then after drilling one 'dry' hole down 270feet. Do the $60 x 270 equation to get the final cost for a 'working, wet' bore --- you only pay half that if the hole doesn't hit water ; one of the few jobs where someone gets paid for -not- getting the job done =) We're saving the guy so much money, because we can do it all 'on site', and 'payment' as such will be not having to pay anything for the dry hole ; we're 'making money' too, however intangible.

    If they bearing gets here, she'll be up and running again by the weekend, but the way the world is now, I'm not holding my breath.

  • #25
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    Oh man.. That's too much like hard work... Good Luck bud, Looks like a fossil...Scrap yard stuff.
    If that was me I would be buying/leasing a New drill especially if I made that sort of money per foot.

  • #26
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    TBH, I'm glad that's done -- the actual work doesn't bother me so much, it was the constant tackle one problem, find 2 other problems in the process type scenario that wears me thin.

    We concluded to leave the gearstick/selector cover off to facilitate getting the box back in...and it does ~ but discovered that was silly, because one couldn't get the cover on due to the top mounting studs -- so they had to be pulled and put back to get it together.

    Owner decides to buy a temp gauge to the bedford so he could keep an eye on it ; some numpty sells him a 12volt gauge, for a 24v system, with the advice "just use one battery" --- ugh, so I had to wire in a relay so temp gauge turns off with the rest of the unit.

    None of the power feeder were fused, so I attended to that as well....which meant the starter motor had to come off 'cos all the power feeds are hanging off starter positive terminal -- when I remove the starter, I notice 2 out of 3 spacing bushes are missing...sigh, fix that as well.

    Someone else not me gets a gasket together for the PTO box, without knowing/realizing those gaskets are thickness specific to ensure correct meshing of the gears -- and of course it was the wrong gasket, so we had to cut one ourselves anyway.

    And of course, it hasn't rained for weeks, but did the whole time we were putting it back together, but the day previous & today (the day after)...no rain ---- ffs, isn't it always the way? =)

    However, all done now and the rig's back out in service --- it'll be a number of weeks before it's back to the property site to finish some holes ; I'll grab some video of the rig working then.


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  • #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by wotnot View Post
    TBH, I'm glad that's done -- the actual work doesn't bother me so much, it was the constant tackle one problem, find 2 other problems in the process type scenario that wears me thin.
    I had a Car like that once, a Peugeot. Really nice comfortable well appointed car but geezuz. Same thing, Fix one thing and 2 others go wrong. I'd fix something, think I was being wise and fix another potential problem I could see then something else would go. Never stopped. I said to a mate that had the same car I whink I have a Dud and he said what makes you think mine is any different?

    Amazingly, I solf it to some guy who was crazier than me and had several of them for a good amount more than I paid for it.


    And of course, it hasn't rained for weeks, but did the whole time we were putting it back together, but the day previous & today (the day after)...no rain ---- ffs, isn't it always the way? =)
    YES!
    I was going to go to Dads on friday to do a job we lined up. Because of the torrential rain predicted all week it got put off. So far he's had not much more than a sprinkle.
    Bet I'll get up there and it will piss rain and flood the minute I arrive.



    However, all done now and the rig's back out in service --- it'll be a number of weeks before it's back to the property site to finish some holes ; I'll grab some video of the rig working then.
    With all the things you have fixed now it should run a good while before needing more attention. When it does at least you'll know there are things you don't have to worry about.
    It sounds very quiet and to be running well now.

    Funny enough, I saw one of thse Rigs down the road yesterday afternoon and thought of this thread. I can't remember seeing one of them around ever before, not in operation at least.
    They were drilling in what I thought was a funny place, On top of a hill. I think they'd have to go down 100M just to get to the same level further down the same paddock where the creek runs.

    I would like a bore but the cost of getting one sunk which would have to be around 150M here and the restrictions on having one anyway would make it more economical just to use town water for a very long time.

  • #28
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    They were drilling in what I thought was a funny place, On top of a hill. I think they'd have to go down 100M just to get to the same level further down the same paddock where the creek runs.
    The bore here is the same (and the neighbour's) -- high in a hill, with bore 130+ metres down. Stealing a line from Sumner-Miller -- "gravity does the work" =) For example, storage tank beside bore - solar powered pump to lift water to storage - merely lay polypipe to gravity feed to water troughs and remote storage tanks. It works out very cost effective in the end.


    With all the things you have fixed now it should run a good while before needing more attention. When it does at least you'll know there are things you don't have to worry about.
    It sounds very quiet and to be running well now.
    Yeah, it's running like clockwork now, but mate & I are suspicious the hydraulic return relief valve is screwy (or something's not quite right), due to it fairly consistently lunching on PTO drives & hydraulic pumps ; next time I see it, I want to measure various shaft rpms & check the hydraulic pressures (there's more than 1 pump).... but just the now, there's more pressure to get holes dug & jobs done, so as always "It'll have to wait, but it's working now"

  • #29
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    I wish I knew more about hydraulics. I'm fascinated by the smoothness and power.
    I'd love to play with it to learn but everything is so Fking expensive and there does not seem any way to find Cheap stuff to play with and learn on.

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