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Thread: Is Formula One dead or dying

  1. #21
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    Edit:
    Please ignore all reference to any tools on this thread.. Posted in error, in the wrong thread...
    Last edited by bob_m_54; 20-10-20 at 02:51 PM.



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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_m_54 View Post
    Who you aiming that comment at?

    Not got the guts to say? How fking typical!

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    Those Lipos sure go off with some heat and flames!

    Imagine if that car went up in an underground car park? The fire would run along the low roof which would reflect the heat and catch other cars maybe further down and the whole thing would take off and be a blazing inferno in minutes. There would probably be sprinklers but I don't think they would do much good with a blaze of that intensity and I don't think water on lipos ( or whatever they specifically are) is a good thing anyway. No way to get a fire truck in the carpark of the shopping centres round here so how in the hell would you fight it? Anyone around would be overcome by the smoke very fast. I have seen charging stations in these underground carparks. This is something that is going to have to be looked at in future with these things that's for sure!

    The way the other vehicles caught fire there could be a dozen cars involved in minutes and then it would go exponentially. Not hard to imagine a whole Westfields being taken out or severely damaged and 100 Cars going up.

    I had one of those Jump starter packs decompose. Absolute filled the entire half acre of back yard with the thickest smoke you could get. Went for about a minute and a half and I was sure someone would call the fire brigade. I was able to get away from the smoke but I could not believe so much could come from such a small volume package. Spose it would have been a jet like flame if it lit but it didn't.
    I replaced the pack with a lead acid model as I'm a bit wary of those pouch cell batteries now.

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    Reminds me the day that 30 cars went up in a temp car park at a surf carnival on Phillip Island. Grass caught fire, CFA had no friggen idea that you should let a few cars go so you could contain the fire
    Think we are getting a little off topic here by talking the present as opposed to the future. Love to put veg oil in my 4wd but live in the Burbs and that aint going to happen
    George can see why this conversation is a little irrelevant to you, but am surprised with the amount of solar and knowledge you have that you are so anti ev's?
    I think EV's are going to be generational things, there appears to be a lack of interest in vehicles now by the younger generation, ie my two sons only care to put the key in the ignition and go, would not know or care how to change a flat tyre or the type of car they drive
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    I think EV's are going to be generational things, there appears to be a lack of interest in vehicles now by the younger generation, ie my two sons only care to put the key in the ignition and go, would not know or care how to change a flat tyre or the type of car they drive
    This is my feeling as well ~ roughly 20% of our population are over 60 (don't want to afford/buy/own an EV), and around the same % are under 16 (not even driver's license age) ...then you rope in the equation of how old one has to be, at what annual wage, to actually go out a buy a new car (EV or not...and even if you -want- an EV)....I can't see a market at present -- give it 20-30years, and the demographic will have changed (and battery tech will likely be there to better deal with EVs, and the 2ndhand marketplace will have lots of used EVs)...long complicated equation.

    I sleep peacefully knowing it'll happen beyond my mortal coil =)

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    Quote Originally Posted by wotnot View Post
    Looks like some myths need debunking:


    So petrol cars catch fire 19x more often than electric, relatively speaking.
    Normally the individual small cells pop and catch fire one by one so that gives you quite a lot of time to exit a vehicle in an accident, while petrol can engulf a car in flames within seconds.

    I am a true dare devil because I have electric AND petrol.
    However only one incident occurred outside of production with the Mitsu PHEV and that was because it was submersed in salt water:

    So I don't think any EV haters here should hold their breath if they want to see me go up in flames in my car.

    Yes I also see the young generation having less interest in cars and other tangible technology beyond their smart phone.
    For this reason there is indeed a future in driverless electric cars in major cities, which are not owned by them but summoned with an app.
    Despite some past hiccups, Tesla claims all their new EVs are self driving but still have manual controls.
    I think there is still a large hurdle for fully autonomous cars where no passenger can interact or needs a license and be a drunken sod.
    But the summoning thing could work almost today if the passenger can scan his license and breath into a sensor before the car starts it's trip.

    Edit: Not sure what veg oil has to do with anything here. It costs more than petrol for the general public.
    I have a certain arrogant and uninformed poster on ignore for a good reason.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 20-10-20 at 01:03 PM.
    This era of thoughtless consumption must end so we can encourage a world of creative geniuses rather than consumer idiots.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    So I don't think any EV haters here should hold their breath if they want to see me go up in flames in my car.
    Just to be clear, I'm definitely -not- an EV hater, but the technology doesn't seem to have 'social appeal' ; I think that's a requirement.

    Topic subject line is a tad too broad - 'is Formula One dead or dying [due to the advent of EVs]'....it's how it should be read.

    I tend to think like this ... (because it's relative to a marketplace with an order of 10 more potential EV buyers) -- when's NASCAR going electric? =)

    That motorsport has died a few times over and struggling to make relevance ; F1 is kinda in the same boat...it's becoming more and more irrelevant.

    Make TrackMania 'real' with EVs... that'd be a good entertainment watch ; the world's grown tired of watching cars do laps

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    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    George can see why this conversation is a little irrelevant to you, but am surprised with the amount of solar and knowledge you have that you are so anti ev's?
    I don't think I'm as anti EV's per se as I am Anti Hype and pushing of anything down peoples throats.

    The main thing is see and dislike with the EV bandwagon is the time frame. They seem to make out that everyone will be driving these things in 10 years time and I think that is laughable for a number of reasons I have mentioned. It's like whenever something new comes along and is pushed by gubbermint/ big biz and media, you are automaticaly supposed to get on board with it without question. I question everything.

    back 20 years ago when Biofuels were all the hype , I was " anti" that too. got labelled a hypocrite more times than I can remember because people were pointing out I was using them.
    As I said which proved to be true, BIG difference between a few nutters using it and fuelling the world on it. It was already clear that enough fuel could not be grown to satisfy demand but the agenda was pushed by vested interests to make a quid out of it. I had my reasons for questioning and doubting it and those reasons Proved to be completely valid and my position vindicated because it was nothing more than a passing fad in the mainstream but certain entities did cash in on it while the fun lasted.

    Would I like an EV? Yes. But I can't justify one in any way. I can't see how many if any can justify them over an IC other than for emotional reasons at this time.
    Do I see a time when they will live up to the parroted popularity and functionality as well as economy? I am doubtful. I'd put money on it that they will not be the mainstream vehicle on the road ( 51% ) in my lifetime/ next 20 years and I'll bet they will not have Superior range or cost of ownership for the average person/ family.

    Right now I just see them as yet another cash cow of the Tree hugger environmental scam which big biz, the car manufacturers are trying to cash in on. They have never had a better marketing story to push since the car was invented than to get everyone to switch to EV's.
    In time, they MAY be the equivalent of the IC but they aren't now and I don't see them being in the next 20 years. That also in my mind raises the question will something else come along in that time to challenge them? Lot of things weren't even invented 20 years ago that are in mainstream use now so it's a long time in Technology.

    As I said, Right now and for some time to come, even being able to charge one for Free as I can do but many couldn't despite the flawed hype, an EV would still not be practical or cost effective for me. I have looked at used models and they all suffer the same 2 drawbacks, Battery degradation and Price. I put a replacement engine in one of the cars I'm driving now about a year ago. Engine was worth $900 and took me a day to put it in and the car should have another 10 years life at least.

    Battery packs for everything I have looked at are $8000+. That's $8K I have to save before I break even plus the cost of the car. The one I replaced the engine in was worth $3k plus a grand for the engine, half price. I can take that To see my dad or Drive it interstate with only stopping for 10 Min to refil. It's a day trip from Syd to Bris or Syd to melbourne or even just the 400KM to Dads which I do all the time in 4 hours. The Only way I can do that in an EV is in a car that is well over $100K now.

    I do that trip once a month on average. I ll be doing it again this week so twice in 10 days as I was up there a week ago. Add to that I'll be taking up 250Kg of machinery a bunch of solar panels and other stuff. There are no utes on the market and even if I put a trailer on that 150K tesla, I'm still in for an extra hours drive to do the trip. Not practical, affordable or even available for my needs.
    Sure, may not be the case forever but I believe it will be absolutely for the rest of my days.

    Now, I'm a typical so whom is an EV going to be the better choice for in the next 5 years from a practical and economical POV?
    I don't know. They are NOT cheaper to run at this point. Take into account purchase price, insurance, recharge costs, servicing, depreciation which is a real Killer on these things and despite the doctored figures of the various vested interests, they cost more to run than a comparable IC.

    Maybe as commercial Vehicles or in specific circumstances they may be workable but it's certainly not mainstream.

    If EV's were superior to my and most other peoples needs I'd be all for them, why wouldn't I be when I'm in a position to avoid fuel costs not so much for me but the wife and daughter who do a lot more miles.



    [/QUOTE]I think EV's are going to be generational things, there appears to be a lack of interest in vehicles now by the younger generation, ie my two sons only care to put the key in the ignition and go, would not know or care how to change a flat tyre or the type of car they drive[/QUOTE]

    I agree. As kids, everyone I knew had an interest in cars, now very few of the young ones do. I made sure my kids could change a flat, check oil water and do basic fault finding before they got their licences. Daughter still comes home complaining about her useless male friends and how she had to show them how to change a flat, a fuse or what that light on the dash was being the car had no fkin oil in the engine.
    My Mrs is the same. The few times she has broken down over the years she has been able to point me well and truly in the right direction of what was wrong so I knew what to bring to fix it and I have always been able to get her home. They both know how to Jump start a car, the right way. I don't want them stranded somewhere when I'm not around because of some simple 2 minute fix they can do easily. Little knowledge and independence goes a long way to keeping them safe.

    I think this is where EV's will find an advantage, as vehicles that better suit the totally mechanicaly disinterested. That's a big market. Lot of elderly and professional people like that. They don't have the capeability to do anything or their skillset lies in other areas. They want to get in and drive and who can blame them? Modern IC cars do that now. Again though, if you look at the younger market, it's years away from EV's being affordable to the first car and young buyers. They Buy Kia's and Hyundais because they are cheaper and offer best bang for the buck. I see a lot of them getting into small SUV's now and they are going to take some time yet before the EV's are price competitive with that segment of the market. Maybe in 10 years but that's not a given despite the hype.

    I don't think I am anti Ev as I see them not living up to the hype for a long time and not being a fully capable Replacement for ICs for the foreseeable future either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wotnot View Post
    Who moved the truck 1/2 way through the film?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gulliver View Post
    Who moved the truck 1/2 way through the film?
    The truck looks like it is burning worse than the EV. Maybe the heat warped something that caused the handbrake not to hold anymore.
    This era of thoughtless consumption must end so we can encourage a world of creative geniuses rather than consumer idiots.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    I have a certain arrogant and uninformed poster on ignore for a good reason.
    Would that be anything to do with lacking the emotional maturity and internal fortitude to deal with any opinion or position that does not agree with your own?
    If that's it, good call! Best you don't upset yourself like that and stick to more like minded opinions as found on the ABC and other leftist Media.

    My friends youngster has a similar inability to deal with things he doesen't like. Puts his Fingers in his ears, closes his eyes, stamps his feet and yells Nanananana. The parents discipline him for it but I'm sure he'll grow out of it by the time he turns 3 .

    Have you sought professional help for your affliction or got a diagnosis as yet?
    I'm sure there is something that could be done to help ease your suffering and restore your ability to deal with the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    Who you aiming that comment at?

    Not got the guts to say? How fking typical!
    haha, I have no idea how I posted that in this thread, but a possibility that it occurred because I had more than one window open, and just posted in the wrong thread. Seems I had a few too many at the time LOL

    If it was aimed at you, I would have quoted you. And would have no problem doing that..

    How f'king typical, you thinking it is all about you... hahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob_m_54 View Post
    haha, I have no idea how I posted that in this thread, but a possibility that it occurred because I had more than one window open, and just posted in the wrong thread. Seems I had a few too many at the time LOL

    If it was aimed at you, I would have quoted you. And would have no problem doing that..

    How f'king typical, you thinking it is all about you... hahaha

    Joke is on you. Try re-reading the 2 short lines of my comments slowly and spell the words out if you have to so you can understand them or ask someone for help.
    I never said it was aimed at me at all! I asked WHOM it was aimed at because me or anyone else, it was still gutless. Don't blame others for YOUR mistakes.

    Seems you have clarified any doubt now that you don't have the balls to direct it to anyone and you do in fact have a problem. Your claims are not very trustworthy are they?
    Clearly it was intentional because of instead of just removing it and apologising for any confusion, you have taken more pathetic cheap shots.

    Words say one thing, actions tell a whole different and predictable story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by george65 View Post
    Joke is on you. Try re-reading the 2 short lines of my comments slowly and spell the words out if you have to so you can understand them or ask someone for help.
    I never said it was aimed at me at all! I asked WHOM it was aimed at because me or anyone else, it was still gutless. Don't blame others for YOUR mistakes.

    Seems you have clarified any doubt now that you don't have the balls to direct it to anyone and you do in fact have a problem. Your claims are not very trustworthy are they?
    Clearly it was intentional because of instead of just removing it and apologising for any confusion, you have taken more pathetic cheap shots.

    Words say one thing, actions tell a whole different and predictable story.

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    Well i guess this post has deteriorated so much it is not worth pursuing. OP
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    Well i guess this post has deteriorated so much it is not worth pursuing. OP
    I tried...in vain... =)

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    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    Well i guess this post has deteriorated so much it is not worth pursuing. OP
    From the little bit I can see from quotes, it is always the same old, same old, once this George fella spreads his crap.

    Yes I am out of here too.
    This era of thoughtless consumption must end so we can encourage a world of creative geniuses rather than consumer idiots.


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    Here is a very practical EV


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    No not just George, every one has their opinions, i just think they are all wrong
    I think it how you react to those views?
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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