Reply With QuoteHope i'm wrong, but i think we havent been stung yet but its comming big time and we are not going to escape it.Originally Posted by IPAlarms
Because we can Steve, and if we used your unapproved solution, it would put us professionals back into the backyard DIY security marketplace arena and further damage our reputations and credibility. Most people spend years building up a good track record and establishing a reputation of professionalism, so why would we want to destroy that using unapproved junk.Mmmm.... makes you wonder why everyone is scrambling for the latest mega multi-path, secure, encypted, redundant, high speed, 60 second polling, fully supervised, certificated, standards approved super solutions when there is no system in place to gaurantee a simple police response
Police attendance is not a consideration when using these solutions. Compliance to standards is. The insurance companies do not care how long the cops take to attend as long as the site equipment used and the install complies with the standards and the regular maintenance has been carried out and documented. I have never heard of a claim being knocked back due to slow or non police attendance after they have been requested to attend.
Last edited by bss904; 21-01-09 at 01:46 PM. Reason: spellling
Hope i'm wrong, but i think we havent been stung yet but its comming big time and we are not going to escape it.
Brace yourself Australia, its gong to hit HARD. (Much like constipation).
Fear not - Obama will save you
Developer of VoIP2Go at ozvoip.net - Alarm compatible VoIP Network
Tell me more, re the reporting of the panels to the CMSMmmm.... makes you wonder why everyone is scrambling for the latest mega multi-path, secure, encypted, redundant, high speed, 60 second polling, fully supervised, certificated, standards approved super solutions when there is no system in place to gaurantee a simple police response
I for one cannot work it all out. The Brits may still be sending very basic fire, panic, burglar and open/close signals without zone info but at least every system is gauranteed a response as the police publish their response times and have to be seen to meet them.
Simple...
1. 90% of panels do not have a built-in modem. They have a number of outputs that change state on alarm.
2. They use standalone digital communicators (diallers) that have a number of inputs for detecting the change of state from the panel outputs.
3. Output 1 = Fire, output 2 = Panic, output 3 = Burglar, output 4 = Arm/Disrm, output 5 = Abort (Cancel), output 6 = Confirmed (Multiple Alarms Detected on different zones)
Police only attend "confirmed" alarms - i.e. more than one zone triggered. There are strict rules for detector positioning and methods for achieving confirmed alarms.
When a Burg alarm is received at the CMS, the operator has to wait 90 seconds for an abort signal to give the end user chance to disarm the system.
All systems start with level 1 response (immediate). After two false alarms the system is downgraded to level 2 response (get there when we can). Five false alarms and response is withdrawn. Installing company needs to show proof of 3 months activity clear from false alarms before resonse is reinstated.
Police issue a unique reference number to every system and governing body issues a certificate of compliance to every system. Installers are inspected every 6 months and the inspector digs into your database, picks out 3 installations at random, phones site to get permission to visit and then goes along with his multimeter and gives the installation a good going over.
You lose points for things like mounting an external sounder with only 3 screws instead of 4. Battery recharge voltages are checked, external battery voltages are checked and all sorts of checks are made against a long list of things.
There has to be a number of paper documents stored on site showing a complete history of service visits, system modifications, panel readings etc, etc. All violations are noted by the inspector and your company is given a report at the end of the day.
There's much more but I'm a bit busy so I'll answer any more questions another time.
Developer of VoIP2Go at ozvoip.net - Alarm compatible VoIP Network
Not forgetting as well that the system also has to be upgraded to the lastest British Standard as well as the three month clear activity log.
That's right. Well, actually the industry has adopted European standards which are much more modern. The British standards focus more on cans and string than anything else.
One thing I forgot to mention is that the police INSIST that the panel be on engineer reset so that it locks after any alarm event. A tech has to attend site to educate the customer and ask that they do not enter their home thru the kitchen window after arriving home late from the pub.
Many companies have tech's driving all over the country day & night just punching in their 4 digit reset codes and collecting cash. It's the Brit's answer to the Aussie rebate scheme. You guys nail your customers a small amount each month, the Brits nail them big time whenever they screw up or have a technical false alarm. Either way - the customer gets nailed !
Developer of VoIP2Go at ozvoip.net - Alarm compatible VoIP Network
Wow thats awesome, the Dialler/reporting methodology is backwards though, like old ness / channel stu's we USED to use LOL
Still, Interesting.
yeah the dialler reporting is a bit old fashioned.
Like i wrote above though at least if you have a lot of false alarms you are required to bring the system up to standard. That doesnt really happen in Australia, you can recommend it all you want but it doesnt mean teh client has to do it.
The other thing is as well that a patrol will still respond no matter how many times the system false alarms because they obviously make there money off doing it.
Generally though systems are set up in the UK for the cops to attend site first, not a guard company.
The siren delay is also laughed at by some people, but as somebody else said, at least it gives the opportunity for the cops to actually catch the people on site and do something about it.
Yeah, im a big believer in Sirens, there is no point in a silent alarm in Australia. every area should have its own sounders, inside and out.
Moreso inside then out
both have there pros and cons Keef, like you stated though Australia is a lot better to having sounders inside and out.
Hey guys, there is a recession on, most of the local trades are twidling their thumbs but we are busy as one legged man in an a## kiking contest!
The whole mentality of a recession is quite bizarre, i really don't get it.
Every one thinks that all spending stops, but we can see that in this industry all of our clients (i'm only talking about our local area) are keen to spend money with upgrades, replacements, system tests and alike, to improve security and oh&s monitoring in these harsh times.
We have put as many lines on now as 12 months ago and with no shortage of work in sight, we are booking jobs now some 6 - 8 weeks down the track.
If this recession contines we'll have to hire more staff!!
It's interesting when talking about UK alarms though, very antiquated ideas there in some regard, but maybe we should look at their system of compliance for us down under. Heaven knows that some of the premices that we are called to are wired by 2 year olds!! and false alarm often.
Mitch
100,000 small firms tipped to hit the wall
Feb 07, 2009 12:00am
By: The Australian
ONE in nine companies at high risk of financial failure.
MORE than 100,000 small- and medium-sized enterprises could hit the wall this year as banks tighten their lending requirements and big business customers delay paying invoices.
According to research from Dun & Bradstreet, the country's leading credit report company, one in nine companies have fallen into the "high risk" category of financial distress, with small businesses facing the biggest likelihood of failure.
The research, released exclusively to The Weekend Australian, reflects the next phase in the economic crisis likely to play out domestically.
Small- and medium-sized businesses are the lifeblood of the economy and the traditional generators of jobs.
They contribute more than 30per cent to GDP and employ half the country's workers, or 5.5million people.
If this sector starts to shake, it will have massive implications for consumer confidence and economic growth, despite the Rudd Government's stimulus package and the further cut in interest rates.
The Weekend Australian has learnt that David Murray, head of the Future Fund, has advised the Government it should evaluate credit to the small and medium enterprise sector as a priority.
Kevin Rudd has repeatedly referred to the crucial need to get private credit flowing as a precondition for economic recovery.
The gloomy forecast reinforces the warnings in the Reserve Bank's latest monetary statement that conditions in the business sector have deteriorated sharply in recent months.
"As a result of the problems in global financial markets, it has become increasingly difficult for many firms to access finance," the RBA says.
The D&B research identifies finance, insurance and real estate as having the highest number of firms at risk of financial distress. It finds manufacturing accounted for the second-highest jump, up 15 per cent on last year.
D&B's chief executive, Christine Christian, blamed the jump in business failures in the past year on the sharp increase in credit and financial risks.
"With the economy set to weaken in 2009, cashflow and debt refinancing problems are becoming a significant burden for Australian firms," Ms Christian said yesterday.
Unlike mortgage holders, most business owners have not benefitted from the big Reserve Bank rate cuts. Instead, the major banks are increasing their margins to take into account the greater risks of lending to the sector and the prospect of more bad debts to come.
Typically the banks have more than doubled their margins from about 1 per cent to about 2 1/2 per cent while making it higher still for businesses with more problems.
Although they are still reluctant to foreclose on existing clients in difficulties, they will be watching closely for any signs of further weakness as they are determined to protect their own balance sheets first.
Most businesses are not looking for credit to expand in this climate but merely to keep afloat as their cash flow collapses.
The decline of competition in the finance sector means the businesses have little alternative if they are refused by the big four banks, or charged interest rates that are too high for them.
Im sure we will all experience customers who dont pay and eventually go bust...so strong credit control will be the key to survival.
^^^ excellent more doom & gloom!
Finally - it sounds like you Aussies are going to get a taste. I was beginning to think you were immune, but it now looks like that's not the case.
Developer of VoIP2Go at ozvoip.net - Alarm compatible VoIP Network
Things are going to get worse before they get any better.
Aussies are battlers and we will get through it. The fires, loss of lives, properties and livihoods are more concerning than the recession. Due to acts from mongrel arsonists, many have now lost everything including family members and now will fall on desperate times trying to recover from these horrific events. It is heart breaking to see what these people have gone through.
Australia is like a second home to me. When you're outside Australia you can tell how serious something is by the amount of coverage a news story gets on the BBC. It's big !
I seriously hope that there are no arsonsits involved... a natural disaster is one thing but "mass murder" as it's now being called is sickening.
Developer of VoIP2Go at ozvoip.net - Alarm compatible VoIP Network
like they said on the radio today when fires start on a Saturday arvo and the weather is hot (no thunderstorrms) then there is a good chance it was arsonists.
Well, looks like I've been hit by what this recession has on offer, searched this thread, rather than start my own, and decided to dig it up....
I've lost my job with a company I worked for (about 12 months). Being the newest one there, I went first. I can't say I didn't see it coming either, with how things were going. It's a shame as I quite enjoyed the job, and the clients I was working with. They were a dream to work for.
Not very keen on hanging up my Multimeter at all!!!
How is everyone else faring through it all?
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