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Thread: Perseverance Mars Lander

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    Default Perseverance Mars Lander

    Supposed to land Friday morning.....

    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Already there, damn, time flies.

    What I don't understand is why not drop a rover in this crater:

    and drill an ice core to look for traces of life.
    Who knows they might even find 'yellow snow' well preserved
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    What I don't understand is why not drop a rover in this crater:
    Because it's like dropping your Holden Commodore onto the North Pole with an Ozito cordless duct taped to the tow ball.

    The first is, it ain't going anywhere. Ice is slippery.
    and this is probably mostly dry ice and relatively hard like rock
    and it will be as thick as polar ice caps
    If you have't noticed, drilling into the surface of Mars is a bit of a failure.
    Then there is just the simplistic statement - it's a crap place to find life or history of it from the surface.
    Even if you did get there, how are you going to analyse the material you're going to drill up?

    There are a couple of minor reasons I can also think of like, it's latitude makes it a slightly harder place to land from Earth.
    Space exploration isn't like Star Trek where they land anywhere they like. Some places take a lot more energy and effort to get to than others.
    Even the moon, landing at the poles is more difficult than an equatorial landing.

    Space - Making simple things really hard since 1951
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    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    Because it's like dropping your Holden Commodore onto the North Pole with an Ozito cordless duct taped to the tow ball.

    The first is, it ain't going anywhere. Ice is slippery.
    and this is probably mostly dry ice and relatively hard like rock
    and it will be as thick as polar ice caps
    If you have't noticed, drilling into the surface of Mars is a bit of a failure.
    Then there is just the simplistic statement - it's a crap place to find life or history of it from the surface.
    Even if you did get there, how are you going to analyse the material you're going to drill up?

    There are a couple of minor reasons I can also think of like, it's latitude makes it a slightly harder place to land from Earth.
    Space exploration isn't like Star Trek where they land anywhere they like. Some places take a lot more energy and effort to get to than others.
    Even the moon, landing at the poles is more difficult than an equatorial landing.

    Space - Making simple things really hard since 1951

    Dry ice is quite soft, I can crumble it with my hands.
    It might even dampen a harder drop of that Commodore.
    Dry ice isn't slippery as it does not melt but sublimes straight to gas.
    There is likely also dust on the surface, so I am quite sure the rover CAN move around.
    Drilling ice has an advantage over rock as it can melt with the friction of the core drill.
    I am talking about microscopic volumes here.
    Once the core is lifted up the water could melt and be examined remotely with a robotic microscope.
    Just a few drops from a metre or two down, depending on the dry ice depth.
    I am looking for traces of bacteria, algae and possibly multicellular plankton critters.
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    BTW I think it is time the stop sending these awkward rovers and just send a bunch of Boston Dynamics "Spots".

    They can be constantly re-programmed to do all sorts of tasks, they are swift, highly accurate and skilful and compared to the rovers relatively cheap.
    Can run around on rough terrain, even attempt climbing smaller rock formations and if they tip over they can right themselves up with the arm.
    Digging with them is a breeze and they could move stones and stuff around and see what is underneath, or even construct something.
    Also required is to drop a box with a battery, transceivers and solar panels to unfold so the Spots can go and charge themselves and also fetch and bring back all the tools and samples they need.
    They can equip themselves with any sensor with you want using some standardised port and transmit/receive the data through box.
    As said send a whole bunch, they don't weigh anything near that one ton rover.
    Doesn't matter if one or two fail.

    The drone is nice for reconnaissance(those Chinese could be anywhere) but you need decent workers on the ground.
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    Perseverance is not alone. China & UAE have missions arriving at the same time.



    You can watch the landing of perseverance at

    or at including schedule
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny View Post
    Perseverance is not alone. China & UAE have missions arriving at the same time.
    ...hence my hint with the reconnaissance mission

    The Chinese mission Tianwen-1 has basically the same objectives as Perseverance but it is not expected to 'persevere' that long

    They both want to collect samples that are expected to be picked up and sent to Earth for analysis in 2030, IMO somewhat disappointing and makes my case for sampling and remotely analysing submersed water in craters even stronger. Not even drilling any more, just a thin tube with a heating element on it's tip that sucks up the water once it reaches it.

    is expected to land where the
    lander did in 1976 !

    Have we REALLY come that far since then?

    The which is just an orbiter sent with a Japanese rocket, seems to me a bit more like a prestige and recognition thing.

    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 19-02-21 at 02:55 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    ...hence my hint with the reconnaissance mission

    The Chinese mission Tianwen-1 has basically the same objectives as Perseverance but it is not expected to 'persevere' that long

    They both want to collect samples that are expected to be picked up and sent to Earth for analysis in 2030, IMO somewhat disappointing and makes my case for sampling and remotely analysing submersed water in craters even stronger. Not even drilling any more, just a thin tube with a heating element on it's tip that sucks up the water once it reaches it.

    is expected to land where the
    lander did in 1976 !

    Have we REALLY come that far since then?

    The which is just an orbiter sent with a Japanese rocket, seems to me a bit more like a prestige and recognition thing.

    Whilst I agree with the ideas, the engineering challenges are immense. If you keep adding more and more then you never get an orbiter/lander.

    An engineer wants to land on a safe space. A research scientist wants to land on the side of a mountain or in a narrow valley. Compromise is necessary to achieve something.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Helicopter flights on Mars.
    see

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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post

    An engineer wants to land on a safe space. A research scientist wants to land on the side of a mountain or in a narrow valley. Compromise is necessary to achieve something.
    Ha ha, yes, I am an engineer but I always had to listen and do what my bread giver wants.
    None or very little compromise, otherwise they would go to somebody else.

    The only polar mission to Mars I could find is here:


    Unlike what Trash claims, it sure got there but the lander crashed due to an engine failure in the last seconds before touchdown.

    From this I could not find any more polar missions or plans for such in the future, which IMO is not clever thinking.

    Life can not be found on Mars due to lack of an Ozone layer and consequently high levels of UV radiation leading to strong peroxides and perchlorate all over Mars, except maybe on the poles, particularly in shaded craters where very little UV light exists.
    Any form of life could have sustained much longer there or even still exist in microbial form.

    I would focus ALL missions on the poles.

    Searching anywhere else for life is just a waste of time/resources/money.

    Planing for colonisation is not, but then again that would also be better done near such craters for so many reasons that go far beyond the scope of this thread.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 19-02-21 at 05:16 PM.
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    This bit got me
    Ingenuity, a four-pound helicopter, will attempt the first ever flight in another planetís atmosphere when it reaches Mars.
    I would have thought that "The Eagle" was the first ever flight, ok, technically, it was on a moon....but! Or did Neil Armstrong and "Buzz" Aldrin just jump back onto the command module. Hey! I've just had a thought, maybe NASA have just slipped up and have finally admitted that those conspiracy nutters who say we never went to the moon are right, after all......
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Quote Originally Posted by lsemmens View Post
    This bit got me
    I would have thought that "The Eagle" was the first ever flight, ok, technically, it was on a moon....but! Or did Neil Armstrong and "Buzz" Aldrin just jump back onto the command module. Hey! I've just had a thought, maybe NASA have just slipped up and have finally admitted that those conspiracy nutters who say we never went to the moon are right, after all......
    The moon is considered NOT to have an atmosphere.

    A drone or helicopter or anything depending on wings could not fly there.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 19-02-21 at 06:12 PM.
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    Aww c'mon Fester, never let facts get in the way of a good story!
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    NASA releases HD video of the landing......

    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    buzz aldrin had wings so do rockets and butterflys and jet planes ?so we cant plant anything on the moon as theres no bees to pollinate them -so how did the cow jump over it then now you are gunna tell me theres no easter bunny arent you , Ive seen a photo of santa flying past the moon so you must be wrong and otherwise it was a waste of time going to kindy cos the teachers are liars
    bet your too chicken to tell the teachers that they made me sit in the corner when i tried !!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hinekadon View Post
    buzz aldrin had wings so do rockets and butterflys and jet planes ?so we cant plant anything on the moon as theres no bees to pollinate them -so how did the cow jump over it then now you are gunna tell me theres no easter bunny arent you , Ive seen a photo of santa flying past the moon so you must be wrong and otherwise it was a waste of time going to kindy cos the teachers are liars
    bet your too chicken to tell the teachers that they made me sit in the corner when i tried !!!
    A rocket has no wings. They provide no lift. I do not consider the V1 and cruise missiles as rockets.
    Those fins shift the centre of pressure towards the tail while the rocket stage is still in Earths atmosphere, totally useless on the moon and not very useful in the low pressure atmosphere of Mars.

    Hmm... never been to kindy.
    Can't even remember being in a school before year 3.
    My first memories are building Daleks with egg cartons and the ubiquitous toilet plunger and collecting black powder from dud firecrackers and trying to build rockets with that and taking everything apart I could get my grubby hands on.
    I also don't remember experiencing pain when my dad whipped me with his belt which was not because of my 'experiments' and breaking everything but because I didn't play the clarinet properly.
    On the contrary he bought me a Jetex PAA loader, which I still own today. Unfortunately the cost of the solid fuel pellets was prohibitive for a 9-10 y/o back then.

    So it seems we have experienced a different kind of education.

    Oh yeah and I did see Santa when we were on a ship, he had my dad's slippers on.

    Anyhow before MTV 'explodes' today we could all hear in the news, for the first time ever, the sound of another planet that DOES have an Atmosphere!

    .
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 23-02-21 at 10:22 PM.
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    Now that means that cruise missiles are a waste on the moon cos they cant steer them to the target ? so where do they go? lol and theres no birds on the moon as well, so where/how do the moon angels get around ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by hinekadon View Post
    ...so where/how do the moon angels get around ?
    With your mind.
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    There must be an atmosphere on the moon, otherwise that man who is constantly smiling down on us could not be living there.......
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    yep but he looks a lot like humpty dumpty? so he must have flown there but how ? hitched a ride with santa maybe ?
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