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Thread: A Third World dumping ground for outdated petrol-engine technology.

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    Default A Third World dumping ground for outdated petrol-engine technology.

    LOL, that's what we are!

    I first had to laugh but this article is so spot on, all thanks to our uber-conservative politicians.


    Apparently there are actually people here who would buy EVs(find that hard to believe) but they can't because the companies who can sell the cheap models won't sell them here for a very logical reason:
    VW can simply dump their smoke belching disasters here that are banned elsewhere in the western world as nobody here (meaningful) gives a rat's about emissions.

    So maybe when VW stops making petrol guzzlers because our market is too small to continue covering the manufacturing costs we will eventually have get their EVs.

    Anyhow we will almost instantly run out of petrol and diesel long before that when China starts the major crisis or war because we don't refine or stockpile sufficient fuel.
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    People don't buy evs cause they are too expensive, no infrastructure, insufficient range and pointless when our electricity generation is mainly coal fired....



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    Quote Originally Posted by hoe View Post
    Australians don't buy evs cause they think they are too expensive, no infrastructure, insufficient range and pointless when our electricity generation is mainly coal fired....



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    There I fixed that for you.
    The reason why they are expensive here is explained very well in that article, your other statements are antiquated rubbish.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    There I fixed that for you.
    The reason why they are expensive here is explained very well in that article, your other statements are antiquated rubbish.
    They are too expensive.....

    I regularly drive to Perth, 600km each way.

    I dont know of any electric vehicle on sale in Australia that can do that trip....

    There are 2 Tesla charging stations in Kalgoorlie and 1 in Merredin, about half way. That's it apart from Perth and surrounds.....

    How's the infrastructure in your area?

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    Victoria is ready to tax electric vehicles so apparently it is a part of your "uber conservative politicians"

    .

    "Victoria is set to become the first state in Australia to introduce a tax on electric vehicles.From July 1, owners of fully electric cars in Victoria will pay 2.5 cents per kilometre and owners of hybrids will be slugged two cents per kilometre.
    This will be paid at registration time and is forecast to cost drivers up to $300 each year.
    “You’ll be able to take a photograph of your odometer and then download it onto the VicRoads site,” Treasurer Tim Pallas said on Wednesday.
    The tax is expected to raise $30 million over four years."

    And if you think that will be the end of it you truly are dreaming. Eventually all the states will have their snouts in the trough and the tax will only keep getting higher.

    Coupled with that you have the same spec electric car WAY more expensive to start with (I'm not talking about cheap Noddy Car EV's...I'm talking about equivalent spec cars to current petrol powered ones)
    So I'm not 'thinking' they are expensive, they are, and are also going to cost more and more to run thanks to the likes of Victoria

    Now lets talk infrastructure: Strangely, my local shopping centre and any petrol stations nearby have zero charging stations. What will happen when every car park is full of EV's? Not everyone has the luxury of having a house/apartment with the ability to charge their car overnight

    Instead of blindly reading the ABC, consider having a good think about it and you may find the reason people aren't flooding the showrooms demanding their new EV
    Last edited by mandc; 20-04-21 at 04:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoe View Post
    They are too expensive.....

    I regularly drive to Perth, 600km each way.

    I dont know of any electric vehicle on sale in Australia that can do that trip....

    There are 2 Tesla charging stations in Kalgoorlie and 1 in Merredin, about half way. That's it apart from Perth and surrounds.....

    How's the infrastructure in your area?

    Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

    Apart from you I don't know anybody who does such trip regularly but a Tesla S with the largest battery could do just 600km in one go but you say there is a charging port midway so I strongly suggest to take at least a 20 min break on such trips(not just for the car) which recovers about 70% charge.

    There are currently 5 charging ports in my regional town on the Mid North Coast NSW and I rarely see them used.

    I only have a PHEV which is a 2 ton heavy(with my arse in it) SUV (4WD) but I use the ICE only 6 times a year.
    I paid only 22k second hand.
    Running cost zero on a daily base with my off-grid solar charging with LiFePO4 house battery backup so I can also charge at night.
    Pure electric range of 50km is all I need for my daily drive and I only need 10kWh for that, which would equate to 500km if it had the 100kWh Tesla battery. This is real driving experience over 2 years not some theoretical BS. About 50% town 50% highway but not much over 80km/h, some hills and heavy use of regen B0-B5 with the paddles.
    Keep in mind I am moving about 2 tons.
    You would struggle to get 15km range if you used the petrol equivalent of 10kWh in an ICE as it mainly creates waste heat.
    That and the regenerative braking feature is why EV are far more efficient and environmentally friendly even if they are charged with coal fired generation which are also far cleaner per kWh than an ICE.

    No doubt you could afford the Tesla S, have you actually test driven one and experienced the torque from 0 ?

    Might be a nice change from always buying those dodgy girly smart phones made out of paper thin glass

    BTW I am currently waiting for my doogee phone to arrive and it is not made of 'paper' and sticky tape:
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 20-04-21 at 05:47 PM.
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    Lol, I just received a new one plus 9 pro today to replace my Huawei P30 pro......

    The p40 pro is no good to me, some of my apps I use for my business need Google play services....

    My trackhawk is about the same performance wise as a Tesla, but sounds way nicer.....

    It gets to Perth easily on a tank of fuel, it's getting a second tank fitted this week so I can get to Perth and back without refuelling....

    I'll give up on the flash phones when I retire and need big manual buttons, but I doubt I'll ever be happy with an ev.....

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    Last edited by hoe; 20-04-21 at 06:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoe View Post
    They are too expensive.....

    I regularly drive to Perth, 600km each way.

    I dont know of any electric vehicle on sale in Australia that can do that trip....

    There are 2 Tesla charging stations in Kalgoorlie and 1 in Merredin, about half way. That's it apart from Perth and surrounds.....

    How's the infrastructure in your area?

    Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
    600Klm hmm I can get there and back without filling up... Would I trade my diesel... no ken way..

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    Quote Originally Posted by mandc View Post
    Victoria is ready to tax electric vehicles so apparently it is a part of your "uber conservative politicians"

    .

    "Victoria is set to become the first state in Australia to introduce a tax on electric vehicles.From July 1, owners of fully electric cars in Victoria will pay 2.5 cents per kilometre and owners of hybrids will be slugged two cents per kilometre.
    This will be paid at registration time and is forecast to cost drivers up to $300 each year.
    “You’ll be able to take a photograph of your odometer and then download it onto the VicRoads site,” Treasurer Tim Pallas said on Wednesday.
    The tax is expected to raise $30 million over four years."

    Yep, you certainly got that right.
    We would be the only country to tax EVs, while the rest of the world offers incentives that makes them more affordable.

    Tesla A and VW offer models in the $35k range but would be over $50K here after import costs and taxes.

    Big difference when you don't have to import cars, but we have given up on that dream years ago, we don't want to make anything here anymore.

    We are just everybody's quarry + our so called economic growth based on allowing real estate to increase exorbitantly.

    When iron ore prices eventually go bust and our interest rates finally go up again there will be big tears but everybody just lives for the moment in this country ...big mistake.
    What this has to do with EVs?
    Well for starters they are actually far easier to produce but unfortunately we are also too dumb for that.
    However we have all the metals lying around for the batteries, we could at least be producing those for export including house batteries for local use but as I say, we just live for the moment.
    There are some theoretical incentives for mining and possibly processing the metals at least in QLD if I read correctly somewhere but it is all talk and no do.
    So instead the world just goes to places like Indonesia who will reap all the benefits of the the EV revolution that is taking place in the rest of the world.
    I am invested in one Aussie battery metal mining company in Congo that seems to be doing quite good.
    It is just shameful that we can't get one single one up and running locally.
    Very shameful.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 20-04-21 at 09:29 PM.
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    Just wrt topic, I always thought India wore that crown, when the poms sold off all their tooling for old engines and stuff (Bedford, Lister, Royal Enfield etc etc)

    As for EVs and affordability ; well...a 60+ yo old disability pensioner like me? Never going to be able to afford one, ever....and those of my age and older that I know, are more interested in doing the grey nomad thing, and can't justify the cost of an EV either.

    Don't get me wrong here ~ for my purposes/use scenario, I'd happily drive/own an EV ...but the govt. would need buy me one, or I'd need start buying lotto tickets for any chance of living the electric dream =)

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    we have always been a dumping ground for third world rubbish , GMH started that with the Camira!!
    I dont think EVs will ever be mainstream in this country - nobody has time to waste at a charging station especially if a couple of others are in front of you waiting to charge theirs. Besides like everything else , if EVs are released cheaply on masse the govt will tax the hell out of grid power consumption because they can...

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoe View Post
    My trackhawk is about the same performance wise as a Tesla, but sounds way nicer.....
    Might be a nice noise for a short time but after 600km I would feel like a wreck.
    Before the phEV I had a noisy diesel for 10 years and always felt stressed especially after long trips.
    The PHEV is very quiet even when the ICE is running on the highway. I can listen to the nuances and dynamics of Pink Floyd and Deep Purple without cranking it to max and feel relaxed even after a 600km round trip.
    You might understand that one day when you get older

    It still has a nice noise, just more subtle. Several people said they think they are in a space ship. Acceleration nowhere near your jeep or Tesla S but still a nice kick when all three motors go online.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 21-04-21 at 12:10 PM.
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    Around town, EV's have the advantage. "Out Bush" ICE is still the king. On my trip on my bike. My range was quite variable with speed and wind. One segment I only managed 160km before needing fuel, on average it was about 220km. So I can compare the range of my bike with EVs, sort of. At least I can carry spare fuel, If an EV was subject to some of the wind loading that I experienced that affected their range, and I have no reason to think otherwise, then their range could be variable similar to my bike. Sometimes the distance between fuel stops in Aus is in the hundreds of Km and, occasionally said fuel stop is closed/out of order/etc. I nearly got stranded in Glendambo because the planned fuel stop had closed because of COVID. Fortunately there were 2 in the town and I was able to get fuel and grub. I did have spare fuel, so I could have made Pt Augusta but that would not have been the case in an EV.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    BTW You can charge an EV on a standard 10A powerpoint. However it takes 4hrs for a 50km range in my case but could get you out of trouble.

    The funny thing here is everybody assumes the Status Quo and everybody lives in the bush and drives 600km a day.
    No, an EV might not be for EVERYONE, nor is a Lambo or Trackhawk.
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    Cruising on the highway the track hawk is quiet as stock inside, and has factory noise cancelling......

    I too hate cruising in a noisy vehicle....

    I considered one of the new Harley Davidson e bikes, but its 50k and has 150km range.....

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    Last edited by hoe; 21-04-21 at 02:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoe View Post
    I considered one of the new Harley Davidson e bikes, but its 50k and has 150km range.....
    I could nut out a simple circuit to limit it to 50km/h and my Missus still would not let me ride it ...although it would be 0-50 in 1 second.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    BTW You can charge an EV on a standard 10A powerpoint. However it takes 4hrs for a 50km range in my case but could get you out of trouble.

    The funny thing here is everybody assumes the Status Quo and everybody lives in the bush and drives 600km a day.
    No, an EV might not be for EVERYONE, nor is a Lambo or Trackhawk.

    I would love to get an EV of a large sedan/4x4 size (not a matchbox) that's capable of driving 1000km on a full charge.
    It's also not only about the so-called range in km, it's also about the time and load factor.

    Imagine for an instant, the yearly frequency we have of fires and floods.
    How many people got stopped in their tracks not being able to make their destination.
    Was there power available in the vicinity of where they were.
    Those poor buggers stranded with no power on the nullabor, in regional NSW, or on SE Australia coastline avoiding the fires and floods.
    The whole state of SA lost power a few years ago.
    It's not like EV drivers can carry a jerry full of battery juice.

    It's a real problem if you had planned to drive 500km from one town to another, then have to turn around prior to getting there due to roadblocks and start worrying about not making the distance back.
    I've been there and done it with a gas only vehicle driving in the remote NSW & QLD.
    And yes, gas car drivers can also not carry a jerry full of gas.

    COVID-19 international travel restrictions is proof many people are opting for larger vehicles or 4x4's with camper trailers/caravans to go on holidays (city folk included).
    Not to mentioned too when on holidays; attach a trailer, camper, caravan or fill the car to the brim of camping gear and family.
    All of a sudden, the km, load bearing and time are all factors in how far an EV will go on a full charge.
    Any that claim to go 600km in the real world is so far off with the fairies, it's not funny (unless they are a sole occupant that weights 60kg with no luggage).
    Last edited by Xplorer; 21-04-21 at 10:57 PM.
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    What I really don't get is why PHEV SUVs are hardly sold here either as they solve all above mentioned 'disadvantages' and should be super popular.
    In reality it is safe to say that 80% of the population in metro and regional areas drive less than the range of the newer models (60-90km) on a daily base and thus like me only need the extended range from the ICE for rare occasions.
    They actually cost hardly more than their pure petrol counterparts at least when you look at Toyota SUVs that seem to have all kinds of issues lately but again many companies will not deliver them here because we make it clear that we(our gov) don't want anything electric or with low emissions as I posted in my OP.
    Keep dumping.

    So in VIC(who will be a role model for other states) a PHEV will be taxed for petrol usage and be charged EV tax as well, no wonder nobody will get excited.
    I thought VIC was Labor, who support green tech.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post

    So in VIC(who will be a role model for other states) a PHEV will be taxed for petrol usage and be charged EV tax as well, no wonder nobody will get excited.
    I thought VIC was Labor, who support green tech.
    I think the only green they are supporting is the colour of $100 notes.

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    I just checked pricing on a new lexus convertible.

    Middle East - 100k usd or $129303 aud at today's rates.

    Same vehicle from lexus Perth - $232448.......

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