Yep very lucky the wheels were not spinning, watched the replay up until approx lap 40 until Verspatten got stuck in the pits, which by F1 standards was reasonably exciting race, switched off when it became a procession
Crazy times back then.
After seeing the Verstappen/Hamilton crash at Monza in slo-mo with Verstappens rear tyre brushing Hamilton's helmet you can see just how far safety has progressed as back then that crash would have been 100% fatal.
Instead Hamilton walks away unhurt.
I remember the bitching when the halos were introduced a few years ago but have since seen major injury/possible death averted a few times due to them.
Yep very lucky the wheels were not spinning, watched the replay up until approx lap 40 until Verspatten got stuck in the pits, which by F1 standards was reasonably exciting race, switched off when it became a procession
There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"
Last edited by Tiny; 16-10-21 at 01:05 PM.
Cheers, Tiny
"You can lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make them think? If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
The information is out there; you just have to let it in."
enf (17-10-21),Uncle Fester (16-10-21)
The season is about to end and I have had the impression that there have been a lot of disappointing steward decisions that look very pro Hamilton and contra Verstappen.
Overall one might be inclined to think that the FIA might have financial ties with Mercedes.
This sums it up after the mess in the last race:
I don't think it is a problem about the behaviour between rivals but the stewards need replacement.
Last edited by Uncle Fester; 06-12-21 at 12:30 PM.
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WRC, Lancia Stratos ... real racing.
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wotnot (06-12-21)
F1 in 1995 ....big horsepower, short wheelbase, and driving that was a pleasure to watch ;
F1 in 2021.....
...and that's more entertaining, to me, than watching the 6minutes of F1 race highlights =)
6 minutes of highlights is always boring for me as you are disconnected from the race.
I watched replay full except scrolling past red flags on fullmatchsports.
Admittedly multitasking on another screen but scrolling back on the questionable situations.
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I think Verstappen has been treated very very kindly by the stewards.
That move one or 2 races back where he basically drove Hamilton off the track and got no penalty was bullshit.
This race he hogs the centre of the track and suddenly slows so Hamilton hits him......he deserved that 5 sec. penalty.
Last edited by Uncle Fester; 07-12-21 at 10:28 AM.
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Gonna agree to disagree on that one Uncle.
When you give back a place you dont blast down the middle of the track then suddenly brake...you get over to one side and ease up the throttle. It was a spiteful move and he deserved the penalty.
Unbelievable, Hamilton can do whatever he likes, stewards just give him free pass, happens all the time, Mercedes owns them, disgusting.
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Last edited by Uncle Fester; 13-12-21 at 01:43 AM.
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Then you will definitely like the Steward's decisions on the subsequent protests by Mercedes.
The FIA stewards have dismissed one of Mercedes’ two protests of the Formula 1 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix result, clearing Max Verstappen of illegally overtaking behind the safety car.
Mercedes lodged two protests against the race result in the wake of Lewis Hamilton’s title defeat to Verstappen in Abu Dhabi over the restart procedure by race director Michael Masi.
Mercedes cited articles of the sporting regulations saying that no driver can overtake another car on-track behind the safety car, and that all lapped cars must pass the safety car before the race resumes on the following lap, leading to hearings on Sunday night at the track.
Verstappen appeared to run side-by-side with Hamilton at Turn 12 ahead of the last-lap safety car restart at the Yas Marina Circuit, before going on to complete an overtake into Turn 5 to win the race and the championship.
In the first decision issued by the stewards on Sunday night, the protest regarding overtaking behind the safety car was dismissed.
“Mercedes claimed that Car 33 overtook Car 44 during the Safety Car period at 1832hrs, in breach of Article 48.8 of the 2021 Formula One Sporting Regulations,” reads the bulletin from the stewards.
“Red Bull argued that Car 44 was not ‘overtaken’ by Car 33, that both cars were ‘on and off the throttle’ and that there were ‘a million precedents’ under Safety Car where cars had pulled alongside then moved back behind the car that was in front.”
While the stewards did agree that Verstappen did “at one stage, for a very short period of time, move slightly in front of Car 44, at a time when both cars where accelerating and braking,” he did then move back behind Hamilton and “was not in front when the Safety Car period ended (i.e. at the line).”
The bulletin ends: “Accordingly, the Protest is dismissed and the Protest Deposit is not refunded.”
Verstappen said that the protests by Mercedes “sum up a little bit the season”, while Red Bull team principal Christian Horner said he was “disappointed” but trusted the FIA’s judgement.
The stewards are yet to announce any decision relating to Mercedes’ second protest, which relates to cars unlapping themselves and the race restarting.
Full FIA stewards’ verdict on Mercedes protest over Abu Dhabi GP race restart
The FIA stewards have dismissed Mercedes’ protest over the restart of the Formula 1 title decider in Abu Dhabi, which has confirmed Max Verstappen as the drivers’ world champion.
After the FIA stewards initially rejected Mercedes’ protest over Max Verstappen illegally overtaking behind the safety car, a second protest was also dismissed about the restart from the late safety car period. Here’s the full FIA verdict:
Protest filed by Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team against the Classification established at the end of the Competition Stewards Decision:
The Protest is dismissed.
Procedure:
1. On December 12 the parties were summoned at 2015 hrs (Documents 54 and 55) and heard. The following persons were present during the hearing:
On behalf of Mercedes:
‐ Ron Meadows
‐ Andrew Shovlin
‐ Paul Harris (Team Legal Counsel)
On behalf of Red Bull:
‐ Jonathan Wheatley
‐ Christian Horner
‐ Adrian Newey
Red Bull, as an “interested party” was permitted to attend.
The hearing adjourned at 2050hrs to allow Red Bull to consider its response in further detail and reconvened at 2130hrs. The Race Director was present for the reconvened hearing.
2. At the hearing there were no objections against the composition of the Stewards panel. The parties set out oral arguments and addressed the questions asked by the Stewards.
3. At the hearing the parties referred to the documents submitted. Red Bull submitted graphical information (Exhibit A).
The claims of Mercedes:
Mercedes claimed that there were two breaches of the Sporting Regulations (Article 48.12) namely that which states “..any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car” and “…once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.”
Mercedes argued that had this been complied with, Car 44 would have won the race. They therefore requested the Stewards to amend the Classification under Article 11.9.3.h of the FIA International Sporting Code.
Red Bull’s arguments in defence:
Red Bull argued that
1. “Any” does not mean “all”.
2. The Article 48.13 of the Sporting Regulations states that the message “Safety Car in this lap” is the signal that it will enter the pit lane at the end of that lap.
3. That therefore Article 48.13 “overrides” Article 48.12.
4. That Article 15.3 gives the Race Director “overriding authority” over “the use of the safety car”.
5. That even if all cars that had been lapped (8 in total, of which 5 were allowed to overtake the safety car) it would not have changed the outcome of the race.
Race Director’s Evidence
The Race Director stated that the purpose of Article 48.12 was to remove those lapped cars that
would “interfere” in the racing between the leaders and that in his view Article 48.13 was the one
that applied in this case.
The Race Director also stated that it had long been agreed by all the Teams that where possible
it was highly desirable for the race to end in a “green” condition (i.e. not under a Safety Car).
Conclusions of the Stewards:
The Stewards consider that the protest is admissible.
Having considered the various statements made by the parties the Stewards determine the following:
That Article 15.3 allows the Race Director to control the use of the safety car, which in our determination includes its deployment and withdrawal.
That although Article 48.12 may not have been applied fully, in relation to the safety car returning to the pits at the end of the following lap, Article 48.13 overrides that and once the message “Safety Car in this lap” has been displayed, it is mandatory to withdraw the safety car at the end of that lap.
That notwithstanding Mercedes’ request that the Stewards remediate the matter by amending the classification to reflect the positions at the end of the penultimate lap, this is a step that the Stewards believe is effectively shortening the race retrospectively, and hence not appropriate.
Accordingly, the Protest is dismissed. The Protest Deposit is not refunded.
Competitors are reminded that they have the right to appeal certain decisions of the Stewards, in accordance with Article 15 of the FIA International Sporting Code and Chapter 4 of the FIA Judicial and Disciplinary Rules, within the applicable time limits.
Cheers, Tiny
"You can lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make them think? If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
The information is out there; you just have to let it in."
Off to court apparently.....sigh! A bunch of judges who are clueless about racing to decide.....FFS.
Now, I don't give a flying f*** who won, if it's that close they probably both deserved it and luck came into play. Get over it.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
Mercedes to appeal would be a clear sign of a sore loser.
They still won the constructor's championship, jeez Toto that was your work, be happy.
Hamilton took the defeat very well from what I saw shortly after the race.
All up the result was a win win for all but maybe mostly for the sport.
Verstappen brought back excitement to F1 after mostly a dull decade.
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enf (13-12-21)
Cars are just way too big, I mean they look like crew cab truck length
I'd like to see a shorter car that gives better passing opportunities
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