PETA and Mice

[enf]

FFS.........Proof that the lunatics are still with us.....probably should be in the joke section....

[lsemmens]

Maybe should catch all the mice (humanely) and let them all loose in peta's living room, then seal the place up so they can't get out, along with all members of the group.

[OSIRUS]

Yeh, what would she say if the mice were all at her place ...... different story I'm sure .... (then she would get out the victim card)

[Uncle Fester]

I call animal activists: animal extremists.
Issue here is that the rodents don't have natural enemies any more to keep things in balance.
Main reason I see is that domestic cats are banned from being let outside by animal extremists.
In the past 1000's of years the farmer's cats have generally kept the mice and rat's breeding cycle in check.

Maybe we could keep and breed carpet snakes. They wipe out a nest of mice overnight and are our garden friend.
The issue I have poison, is that the rats have it all over their mouths when then move on to nibble our veggies because they don't die right away.

[wotnot]

Maybe should catch all the mice (humanely)

LoL....that's part of the problem right there -- use of the word humanely ....I'll get back to this below =)

I doubt anyone -not- living in a rural area, currently (for months now..) afflicted with this 'small' mouse plague (I say 'small' because there's been much larger), has any real idea what we're facing.

I -do- live in such an area, and we've been running 3 bucket traps in the house for the last as many months, and we're averaging 2 per night, every night, over this period (highest nightly catch so far is 9...when we had a few days of rain).

Eventually I've got to get into the mood and remove center console, half the dash, and most of the HVAC shit in the car, just to get to a corpse stuck in the blower motor, and I think I crushed one in the blend door as well. I have to repair 3 or 4 flyscreens on windows, as they chew a hole in them to try get into the house (if you're silly enough to leave a window ajar/open at night. Local auto electricians are having a small win, from all the jobs they're getting from the little beggars getting up under bonnets and chewing through wiring looms. If you've got food around outside your house...think chook houses, dry dog food, bails of hay, silos of grain...it's on every night ; and, wrt commercial chicken runs/sheds and there's a lot of them around here, these are like big feeding magnets for every rodent within coo-ee. You know it's getting 'bad' when school yard chat is "I got bitten by a mouse in my sleep!"

Humanely...that is such a phuqqed-up word... especially coming from humans -- oh the hubris! The problem is, noun disassociation -- these ppl are saying 'mouse' or 'mice', and this is incorrect. The correct word to use, is vermin ...if you're a human being that is, and it doesn't just apply to rodents either. By definition, mankind is vermin, or destined to become that once global population goes beyond 10billion or whatever -- it really depends on one's perspective ; am I an animal, or instead a human being.

I really doubt there's any humane way to euthanase pests or vermin - you either kill them quickly, or capture them to kill later. I'm not a mouse, I dunno how mice think, but I reckon it's easy to see that even being trapped and robbed of my freedom, is inhumane enough...but I'm a mouse and don't know how humans think...would I prefer being trapped in a bucket of water swimming to stay alive until I finally die (of hypothermia)? Or maybe being caught in a glue trap that I break bones in my legs or having to chew my own limbs off to escape from? Or maybe I can eat something that tastes so good, I don't notice the poison and I'm a mother of 6? Or maybe I wait to be squashed underfoot as a household of human kids come out with boots on, for a nightime game of stomp&squeak? Or maybe the last thing I hear is the clack of a string steel wire severing my spine in two and causing fatal internal injuries?

I do realize it's a grim view, but don't shoot the messenger ~ we don't like thinking about real truths. We humans 'grade' the 'worth of life' -- do we squash a cockroach, or slowly let is die, squirming and contorting under the effects of the biochemical warfare compound humans use on insects, in the can marked mortein? Do we humanely dispatch fish, before eating their flesh for dinner? FishLivesMatter?

FFS is right ~ what's a worse thing to consider, is that PETA actually exists at all =)

[bob_m_54]

I call animal activists: animal extremists.
Issue here is that the rodents don't have natural enemies any more to keep things in balance.
Main reason I see is that domestic cats are banned from being let outside by animal extremists.
In the past 1000's of years the farmer's cats have generally kept the mice and rat's breeding cycle in check.

Maybe we could keep and breed carpet snakes. They wipe out a nest of mice overnight and are our garden friend.
The issue I have poison, is that the rats have it all over their mouths when then move on to nibble our veggies because they don't die right away.

The issue is that the mice are an introduced species, so they don't have the number of natural predators to keep them under control in Australia. And they are oppertunistic breeders that can sense when it is best to breed.

Cats being banned from roaming free has bugger all to do with keeping mouse plagues at bay in Australia, there are just too many mice for them to make a difference. But the damage feral cats do to native species is horrendous. All cats should be registered to their owners, and any cats found roaming free should be shot on sight. About five years back, driving up through Sth Aus, and NT and into western QLD, feral cats were plentiful, and some of them were bloody big too. We counted over 30, just while driving along the blacktop, so total numbers would have to be pretty high to see that many in broad daylight near roads.

The problem with poisoning the mice is that predatory birds and lizards eat the dead and dying mice and die as well.

[Uncle Fester]

Cats being banned from roaming free has bugger all to do with keeping mouse plagues at bay in Australia, there are just too many mice for them to make a difference. But the damage feral cats do to native species is horrendous. All cats should be registered to their owners, and any cats found roaming free should be shot on sight. About five years back, driving up through Sth Aus, and NT and into western QLD, feral cats were plentiful, and some of them were bloody big too. We counted over 30, just while driving along the blacktop, so total numbers would have to be pretty high to see that many in broad daylight near roads.

Of course there are too many mice now because we let things get out of hand.
You make a good animal extremist. All domestic cats are 'feral'.

Snakes ARE a natural enemy, hence my suggestion.
Carpet snakes are friendly.

[bob_m_54]

Of course there are too many mice now because we let things get out of hand.
You make a good animal extremist. All domestic cats are 'feral'.

Snakes ARE a natural enemy, hence my suggestion.
Carpet snakes are friendly.

They are out of hand due to the way they breed, and the environment (rain, available feed, temperatures). How would you propose preventing mouse plagues? let loose a couple of thousand cats into the farmlands? They wouldn't make a dent on the mice. As for snakes, yes they do eat mice, but you're going to need 5 times as many snakes as cats, because you average 1.5M carpet snake will be lucky to eat more than a half dozen mice one or two weeks.

And yes, if your cat isn't in your yard, it is feral..

[lsemmens]

Upon the werd, "humanely", I used it just to keep the pet(a)s happy, FWIW, I don't care how you dispose of the things, as long as it does not affect the local wildlife. I do have a cat, not that I particularly want him, but at least he doe find a few mice, problem is, his likes to play with the bloody things. I've yet to find a dead one.

[enf]

.................................................. ........................I've yet to find a dead one.

Their in the kitty litter......

[trash]

There was a decline in them over the past few weeks, but in the last week they have increased exponentially. I think this is because they are running out of food in the paddock and are coming in and eating anything they can find. They are so bold as to steal my cat's food. This was a capital crime a few weeks ago, but now the cats are just exhausted and outnumbered.
The traps are full, they run out of bait every couple of hours or are full of mice. The past few days I've disposed of about 50 mice per day and they just keep coming.

And then there is the rats. They seem to be bigger and smarter and are now harder to find. I've let the cats loose on them when I find them. The cats love chasing them but the rats put up a good fight. If they can keep the rat cornered long enough I can "rescue" the rat with a spade.

[Uncle Fester]

They are out of hand due to the way they breed, and the environment (rain, available feed, temperatures). How would you propose preventing mouse plagues? let loose a couple of thousand cats into the farmlands? They wouldn't make a dent on the mice. As for snakes, yes they do eat mice, but you're going to need 5 times as many snakes as cats, because you average 1.5M carpet snake will be lucky to eat more than a half dozen mice one or two weeks.

And yes, if your cat isn't in your yard, it is feral..

You don' t need a thousand cats or 5 x more snakes to PREVENT a plague!
You seem to be very stubborn in ignoring my point.
Now that many have the plague they are obviously pointless because we humans let things get out of hand by eliminating the natural enemies like snakes and cats in the first place.
In the past thousands of years there was "rain, feed and temperatures" but very rarely mice and rats plague of this size and spread in farmland areas.

And for the record we have currently no rats and mice and have counted 5 different carpet snakes over the past few months in our garden. A neighbour has a lot of bird cages and chicken which normally attract a lot of rats and mice but the snakes have done well.
Cat is ALWAYS inside and the only mice he has to deal with are toys.

[wotnot]

This is the local rag this morning ;

Upon the werd, "humanely", I used it just to keep the pet(a)s happy, FWIW, I don't care how you dispose of the things, as long as it does not affect the local wildlife. I do have a cat, not that I particularly want him, but at least he doe find a few mice, problem is, his likes to play with the bloody things. I've yet to find a dead one.

Oh...no, no....I wasn't having a pick at -your- use of the word, but rather all those fruitcakes out there that live in some lollygobbleblissbomb world devoid of reality =)

[lsemmens]

@wotnot, 'sall good, mate, didn;t really think you were picking on me, As to the article, looks like they found a "few" mice. hopefully they"find" a "few" more! Now we'll have other "responsible" citizens complaining about the smell or using landfill to dispose of them. b

[enf]

From todays paper...........

[Johnno]

Let all the Cats out..
And when they get Fat and Lazy that's when you Let ALL the Dogs out. They'll chase the Cats and keep them fit and hungry again. Problem solved. LOL

[bob_m_54]

You don' t need a thousand cats or 5 x more snakes to PREVENT a plague!
You seem to be very stubborn in ignoring my point.
Now that many have the plague they are obviously pointless because we humans let things get out of hand by eliminating the natural enemies like snakes and cats in the first place.
In the past thousands of years there was "rain, feed and temperatures" but very rarely mice and rats plague of this size and spread in farmland areas.

And for the record we have currently no rats and mice and have counted 5 different carpet snakes over the past few months in our garden. A neighbour has a lot of bird cages and chicken which normally attract a lot of rats and mice but the snakes have done well.
Cat is ALWAYS inside and the only mice he has to deal with are toys.

And you seem to be stubborn in ignoring the fact that we have had mouse plagues in Australia ever since we introduced them into Australia in the 1800. In the past "Thousands of years" there was no problem with mouse plagues in Australia because they weren't here until white man came here. There weren't any cats either... or carp, trout, rabbits, foxes, wild goats, pigs, water buffalo, cane toads redfin perch or any of the other plethora of feral species of fauna and flora brought here.

It's the same with any introduced species that tips the ecological balance in the natural environment. To think that we can keep plagues at bay by letting cats roam free is nonsensical, even if they palled up with the snakes. And even if natural predators (snakes, lizards and predatory birds) were in the numbers, that they were before white man came to Australia, they still couldn't cope with the prolific breeding cycle of mice. This is evident by the fact that we have had mouse plagues in Australia ever since the first fleet.

[bob_m_54]

Let all the Cats out..
And when they get Fat and Lazy that's when you Let ALL the Dogs out. They'll chase the Cats and keep them fit and hungry again. Problem solved. LOL

Cats make good target species for hunters..

[trash]

Unfortunately I can't find the cartoon I used to have of logger holding a chainsaw standing in front of a tree with a Greenie.
He's yelling out to his boss, "Hey Boss, what do you want me to do with this one, there's a tree chained to it?"

And my cousin who worked in logging. He and his boss came out of the office to assess a bulldozer in the yard. Three Greenies jumped up out of the forest and before they could even ask them what they were doing they had superglued themselves to the bulldozer blade. "You're not taking this out today they said!"
My cousin waited a few seconds to make sure the glue had really set and agreed, "You got that one 100% right boys, this tractor is broken and we're determining what it needs to be repaired, we're taking that other one over there out today!" Normally they would call the cops straight away when the protesters turn up, but you know how the phone coverage can be a bit unpredictable in the forest and well there was no point in interrupting the police before they had had a long lunch.

---

Yep, my cats live inside. They have their own outdoor area and can come in and out as they like. Ungrateful little shits.
I do take them out into the paddock where I have some sheets of corrugated iron to attract the mice so they are easy to hunt.
I've trained the cats to respond to the command "ready" and they are alert for any movement at the sound of corrugated iron being moved.
The trick is training the cat to let go of the mouse. I have one cat I'm looking after who is an excellent mouse catcher, but she doesn't share her catch, doesn't kill it, plays with it (so she's not catching other mice) and then lets them go later when she'd bored with them. If I try to take it off her, it's easier to catch the mouse alone than the cat.

The trapdoor trap I made catches about 5 mice per day. A coke bottle trap catches about 10 per day and a small cage trap catches about 5 every couple of hours.
Then the cats bring in a share from their outdoor area. Shits me, because they bring them inside to play with them.

In the past thousands of years there was "rain, feed and temperatures" but very rarely mice and rats plague of this size and spread in farmland areas.

The difference. When you had a mouse plague, the population starved and the human population crashed faster than the mouse population.
There is one historical (fiction) book which makes mention of such things happening in human history. The bible is has a few of these disasters.
And it's not really a surprise that they have been happening periodically when conditions are right and will continue to happen.

Not of this size, not but it is still in proportion. Ya got to love Gaussian maths and negative feedback system when to comes population statistics.

What is the changing factor? Agriculture and the ability for humans to store food, then large amounts of food. And with the industrial age we can produce and store huge amounts of excess food. We can store food securely and have a variety of defenses to protect it. What is also is that intensive farming is harder to defend from vermin. One farmer can manage a huge crop where in the past this required hundreds of people and those people were more available and determined to protect their limited food source.
So naturally what we see is proportionally big plagues because we produce a lot more food for the vermin to plunder and less of us to guard or even care about the loss.

If we went back to a PETA/Greens Amish stone age life style, then the plagues would still occur but be smaller proportionally to the food resources we would then produce.
That is regressive political thinking. Though I seriously doubt any PETA members have any cognitive function.

I do like the idea of PETA protesting against the fur trade in somewhere like Moscow. I'd pay to watch that carnage as Babushki beat the living fvck out of protesters while the militsia rushes in to to hold the protesters down for them. Afterwards the FSB arrive and take them to fur farms where they strip the protesters of their clothes and keep them in open cages, where they have not quite enough fur coats for everybody to wear.

[hinekadon]

surely someone can can the best of them and sell them to the Chinese as a gourmet meal treat the wouldn't even have to be labeled as being poisoned just humanly slaughtered nice little money spinner for scomos mates
thinking back to around the sixtys the farmers used to use their tractors with big hay mower to run over the plague then plough them back into the soil also recall dump trucks tipping them into the Murray river ???