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Thread: Astrazeneca versus Pfizer, Moderna

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post

    Heres the chief health guru in SA....Prof. Nicola Spurrier.



    Ummmmmmm................I'll take the Fed advice thanks......
    Wow. I think she needs to pause for a minute, gather her thoughts, rehearse her response, then start the speech again.
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  • #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by lsemmens View Post
    Of course the deaths related to AZ are going to be higher, AZ is only recommended for the group who is likely to kick the bucket soonest. For a valid result, it needs to be across the board, not just a particular group. I could also make the point that people who drink whiskey, Rum, Vodka, any other alcoholic beverage you name with Ice (the frozen water kind) all get drunk, clearly, the common factor, here is Ice. ergo, ice is the bad guy.

    Ice is only the bad guy if you drink a single malt whiskey with it. That is blasphemy.
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  • #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    11 cases in over 6 million? I won't even do the math.....
    It’s actually even less - according to the offical TGA figures it’s only 9 deaths total as of the weekly report issued yesterday.


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  • #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by fromaron View Post
    Interesting "specialist" advice. May I ask you if any reason was given to suggest that Moderna is not as 'risky' as Pfizer?

    I am not having a go at you or your specialist but the advice given contradicts to what scientists are telling us. I am more likely to change the specialist (unless it is someone who relates to you - like wife for example ) if given this advice.
    Apols for the tardy reply, I somehow missed your post here, but fair question. What is typically normal, general advice for most folks (and worth following), for me it's never been so because I'm one of those <1% of aussies with blood type ABneg. If you want a practical demonstration of how much blood type can matter, the particular strain of HCV I became infected with, was treatable using established protocols but had no effect in eradicating the virus for those with ABneg blood ; I was part of a clinical trial investigating a potential cure for HCV, and I ended up having a pretty severe reaction (blood chemistry) to it and had to stop taking the medication -- I was sick as a dog for a month, and it took 6months to get over the episode. On the plus side, what they learnt from the trial, enabled them to produce a cure some 6years later, and the company who ran the trial made sure I got it as soon as it was available, and they even paid for it before it was put on the PBS list, so it worked out ok.

    However, after 35+ years of liver dysfunction caused by the HCV, although now cured of that I'm left with other medical complications in result, and for relevance here a hypothalamus and thyroid condition. The former, is what my specialist is worried about ~ my body has lost the ability to regulate it's heat and blood pressure in an autonomic way. For me, there's no such thing as 'feeling chilly' - my body descends into the clinched muscle grip of hypothermia in a blink of an eye, and likewise there's no such thing as a 'mild fever' with me, it's more the case of thermal runaway. Last time I was in the PA for my routine gastroscopy, they were all running about like chooks with their heads cut off, when I finally broke consciousness in the recovery ward and they saw my blood pressure spiking at 180/120 =)

    To your question, my specialist would *rather* I get jabbed with the J&J vaccine if that were ever likely to happen, but it's not, and thus he's advising Moderna to me as so far it has less reported febrile side effects than Pfizer, and seems to have a greater efficacy as well..ie; the 'if you have to have a jab, have the one with the best bang for your buck'.

    In this regard, it would seem the delta spread through NSW is all but knocking on Qld's door now, with Lismore being in lockdown ; all good timing, next week moderna becomes available so I can rock on down to my GP and get that happening.

    Qld's up to 40% double-jabbed, and that's 75% of the most populous areas done

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  • #146
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    Thanks wotnot, I perfectly understand where you and your specialist advise is coming from. Would you be safer waiting for Novavax then? It seams it is the safest vaccine these days?
    Last edited by fromaron; 19-09-21 at 09:22 PM.

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    All the best Wotnot, I understand you conditions and the effects it has had on your life. I nursed my wife through many and varied conditions over the last 30 odd years. Thanks for the explanations as to your hesitancy over certain vaccinations. FWIW I've had my second Rasta Zenica shot with no ill effects. The worst I had from it was a sore arm for about a week after the first jab.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Quote Originally Posted by fromaron View Post
    Would you be safer waiting for Novavax then? It seams it is the safest vaccine these days?
    True, but it's yet to be approved & rolled out, and I may be walking amid the delta strain before that happens ~ in that case, any immunization is going to be better than waiting for an 'ideal' vaccine solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wotnot View Post
    True, but it's yet to be approved & rolled out, and I may be walking amid the delta strain before that happens ~ in that case, any immunization is going to be better than waiting for an 'ideal' vaccine solution.
    That is most likely the best course of action. I was more concern by the fact you received the advice to take Moderna instead of Pfizer. From what I can see both Moderna and Pfizer have the same list of rare complications and the advice didn't make sense to me. I only hope that there are other pieces of information not readily available to general public but known to specialists to make the right recommendation.

    It is true, Novavax is still not approved by TGA but I believe it is matter of few months and we see first shipment of vaccine landing in Australia by December. I am not trying to persuade you to change the decision and go against the advice. I am just worried some people with health issues take the risk today and go for vaccine available instead of staying in voluntary isolation until safer option becomes available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fromaron View Post
    ............................................I am just worried some people with health issues take the risk today and go for vaccine available instead of staying in voluntary isolation until safer option becomes available.
    I concur with this post.....

    but I don't think that there's any need to take a risk. Take the advice of your doctor and/or specialist. THEY are the ones best qualified to assess your situation, not people speculating on the internet.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    I concur with this post.....

    but I don't think that there's any need to take a risk. Take the advice of your doctor and/or specialist. THEY are the ones best qualified to assess your situation, not people speculating on the internet.
    100% agree. The issue is and I know people with serious health problems who do not take specialists' advice and go for a jab as they are so scared by the media that it is not funny.
    A lot of bad adverse effects were recorded earlier this year when not much was known about reaction to the vaccine. Majority of speculations on the internet are based on the old "data". I wrote data in quotation marks for a good reason. Reading some of those speculations sometimes make me laugh as they have no logic or real information behind - just pure rubbish. Facts are interpreted incorrectly or they simply lying - I couldn't sometimes decide what it is.

    I can see statements by one or the other well-known scientists presented in an opposite way to what was said in reality and the list goes on and on.

    I have nothing against people who express their disagreement with what is happening, demanding their civil freedom etc but when they rubbish internet with those speculations they play against themselves.
    From the other hand when I see footage like in this video my blood starts to boil.
    I only wish one day there will be a Covid trial similar to Nuremberg where people responsible for unlawful acts answer for what they've done.
    Last edited by fromaron; 20-09-21 at 09:25 PM.

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    Queen Anastasia just can't relinquish control. Even at 80% we have to keep the borders shut.....jeez.....

    I also see that Emporer McGowan wants to change the WA electoral system....AFTER declaring before the state election that it was not his intention.

    And now Chairman Dan has to let the media watch.....





    Compassion for police can’t extend to unchecked powers

    By lifting a ban on live reporting from the air over Melbourne, the Federal Court has offered a much-needed check to Victoria’s heavy-handed pandemic response.

    By Editorial

    By lifting an arbitrary ban on live reporting from the air over Melbourne pending a full hearing, the Federal Court has offered a much-needed check to Victoria’s heavy-handed pandemic response that to date has been sorely missing. Abuses of executive authority as well as the delegation of decisions that affect civil liberties and freedoms to unelected bodies can have serious and unintended consequences. Attempts to muzzle reporting through airspace restrictions for the convenience of police join a list of authoritarian measures imposed on Victorian citizens for a period that soon will be longer than anywhere else in the world.

    The use of flash bombs, pepper bullets and other tactical weapons against unarmed protesters should ring alarm bells of concern even for those who support the police and empathise with the difficult job they have been given. Compassion for police must not extend to giving them effectively unchecked powers to direct other public bodies to censor media freedoms. Nor should it allow the Andrews government to abrogate its responsibility to make the difficult decisions and instead delegate them to those who stand to benefit.

    In the Federal Court on Thursday, media outlets including Nine Network Australia, Seven Network and the Australian Broadcasting Corporation argued the decision made by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority – on a directive from Victoria Police – that prohibited their ability to broadcast live footage of the city’s ongoing protests should be overturned.

    Judge Helen Rofe stayed the restrictions until the matter had gone to trial. Under the restrictions, news organisations were required to seek the permission of police before flying their shared helicopter over the CBD and to not broadcast any vision until 60 minutes after it was taken. The media groups argued that being the eyes and the ears of the public they could not be muzzled or censored in that task by having to go to Victoria Police first to seek approval.

    There was “no imminent danger to public safety” by airing live footage and it was an “abuse of power” by CASA as a regulatory authority by putting that “power in the hands of Victoria Police quite impermissibly and quite unlawfully”. Peter Hanks QC, representing CASA, told the court he would require more time to gather evidence for his client. Challenging the ruling and holding the government and police to account is the proper course of action for the media to take.

    Sky News Political Editor Andrew Clennell says there has been some controversial tactics employed by Victoria Police such as the decision to install a no-fly zone for media helicopters. Protesters gathered in the Melbourne CBD over the past few days to argue against the two-week construction ban across More

    But the media is not blameless in the unedifying position that Melbourne now finds itself. Many news organisations have allowed themselves to parrot the demeaning lines of union officials and politicians to deflect attention from the real causes behind recent displays of public dissent. It is easy to dismiss protesters when they are described as being impostors and extremists or willing to spit on frontline health workers. It is more difficult to report the issues that have sparked a revolt.

    Like the yellow vest protests in France that started with concerns over rising energy prices, it is inevitable that protest will quickly attract outsiders with other agendas. But it is valuable, nonetheless, to reflect on comments by two individuals at the initial protests reported on Wednesday by Sky News. One man looked, acted and described himself as a proud union member. He wanted to apologise to all business owners that organised labour had not stood up earlier to protest against the economic impositions they had been forced to endure. “To the nation of Australia, as a union member I am so sorry we didn’t stand up for all those shopkeepers and all those other people who have been trampled upon,” the man said. “I feel disgusted that we were allowed to work during that time so I do apologise, but let’s stand up as a nation.” Another man said: “The reason I am here is because workers have got to feed their family, they have go to work and put food on the table and pay their bills.”

    These sentiments reflect the frustrations of many people who have been left voiceless. On the protest lines were many unionised workers more used to giving orders to the Andrews government.

    As Robert Gottliebsen wrote on Thursday, when the Victorian health officials put restrictions on construction workplaces to curb virus breakouts on sites, they believed the unions could and would deliver the workers just as they always had done. When there were minor protests, the health officials shut down the whole industry. The members revolted. The union officials had lost control. The once privileged had been forced to join the masses. You do not have to agree with their methods to appreciate the message.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    Queen Anastasia just can't relinquish control. Even at 80% we have to keep the borders shut.....jeez.....

    I also see that Emporer McGowan wants to change the WA electoral system....AFTER declaring before the state election that it was not his intention.

    And now Chairman Dan has to let the media watch.....


    Methinks certain premiers are getting a bit power drunk and are really starting to like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mandc View Post
    Methinks certain premiers are getting a bit power drunk and are really starting to like it.
    Understatement of the year mate...............
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    Understatement of the year mate...............
    As in my previous post:
    From the other hand when I see footage like in this video my blood starts to boil.
    I only wish one day there will be a Covid trial similar to Nuremberg where people responsible for unlawful acts answer for what they've done.

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    I also see that Emporer McGowan wants to change the WA electoral system....AFTER declaring before the state election that it was not his intention.

    it has always been labor policy to put a stop to the liberals jerrymander of the upper house it is the first time in history labor have had control of it even a deaf and dumb blind man would be able to see there is a problem with it personally i would like to see it wiped from the face of the earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by dai View Post
    I also see that Emporer McGowan wants to change the WA electoral system....AFTER declaring before the state election that it was not his intention.

    it has always been labor policy to put a stop to the liberals jerrymander of the upper house it is the first time in history labor have had control of it even a deaf and dumb blind man would be able to see there is a problem with it personally i would like to see it wiped from the face of the earth
    Not before the election it wasn't policy. He stated on national television that they would not be considering it. I assume that it's the upper house that you want abolished. Be careful what you wish for.....pandemic aside, it's caused real headaches at times in QLD.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    It was only a matter of time and sooner than expected, quitaly in NSW and VIC some vaccination centers make available Pfister and Moderna to the over 60 without a Dr referral on a walk in bases, all other states officially removed the AZ mandate to the over 60.

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    Quote Originally Posted by B52 View Post
    It was only a matter of time and sooner than expected, quitaly in NSW and VIC some vaccination centers make available Pfister and Moderna to the over 60 without a Dr referral on a walk in bases, all other states officially removed the AZ mandate to the over 60.
    Big question if those who had AZ first could soon get an mRNA second. It is already been looked at for the booster shot. Tests earlier this year have shown that this combo is the most efficient, while 2 doses of AZ protection can wear off fast, especially with the elderly.
    Update: A deletion of features that work well and ain't broke but are deemed outdated in order to add things that are up to date and broken.
    Compatibility: A word soon to be deleted from our dictionaries as it is outdated.
    Humans: Entities that are not only outdated but broken... AI-self-learning-update-error...terminate...terminate...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    Big question if those who had AZ first could soon get an mRNA second. It is already been looked at for the booster shot. Tests earlier this year have shown that this combo is the most efficient, while 2 doses of AZ protection can wear off fast, especially with the elderly.
    Yes, this has been done in the US. I read about it months ago.

    I dunno where it stands with the TGA, but it appears to have produced the best efficacy....
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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