Not so since the outbreak of the Delta Variant, AZ was approved for 18 +.. Since for the under 60 the average wait to get the Pfizer is 8 week, many have taken the AZ which in some cases you can get the same day.Originally Posted by mandc
Not comparing anything, just stating a fact ... AZ is 66% Pfizer 96% both after 2 jabs, the 3rd jab comes as a booster 8 months later. We are no were near there.
Agreed...but I think you will also agree that the vast majority in ICU are 60+ hence cannot have received any other vaccine but AZ so virtually all in ICU have either had no vaccine or AZ.
So your statement "a quarter who are in ICU had the AZ jab" is kind of misleading as it makes out AZ is far less effective than Pfizer.
This may turn out to be the case but you can't draw that conclusion on that statement..
How long can you keep the whole population in lockdown. the effect on the economy is devastating. How long can they keep up the payment to business and individuals now in the trillions
The UK which half having had the AZ and has ended the lockdown recorded 207 death yesterday ... these are not BS figures
My bet... come January or February all AZ recipients will be advise to re vaccinate with Pfizer or Moderna.. expected to be readily available by then.
Last edited by B52; 02-09-21 at 09:30 PM.
Oh FFS....
The UK has a population of what? 2.5 times Australia? All crammed into an area less than half that of NSW....we will have issues, but we can't hide forever.....our country is going BROKE, people are losing houses, businesses, and jobs.
These are not BS figures.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
Any flu vaccines have 6 months "use by day" anyway and neither Pfizer nor AZ is any different.
Current studies in Israel showing Pfizer efficacy reducing at different rate depending on people age and other underlying health conditions. The study so far indicated younger people have better immune response comparing to older people after 6 months. Older population natively have immune system not as good as younger cohort and this is the reason Israel decided to go ahead with booster after 6 months.
Some other studies state that AZ even being a bit less effective after initial two shots comparing with Pfizer but efficacy reduction is slower than Pfizer and at some point of time they become pretty much the same.
I wonder what happened here in Vic? Gov conceded 2 days ago that it can't get back to zero cases where they jumped to approx 90 and then yesterday 172 and today now 208. Seems like they knew something but didn't come clean.
Because they are finally starting to admit what delta really is. I reckon they've known for ages. Plus Daniel Andrews started to come clean a couple of weeks ago and admitted that Victoria was running out of money.
You only have to look at NSW. They had excellent control over the original strain (alpha?), but delta is a totally different animal transmission and case wise. It seems perhaps less lethal, although that's not clear.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
in the uk 492528 people tested positive to delta 1798 died that is 0.4% 1664 of those were over 50
1091 of those were vaccinated
536 of those were not.
don't like the data go get it your self.
In 2020 UK recorded around 69000 deaths in total - majority of those 50 years and older.
Since then 90% of adult population had at least 1 dose of vaccine in UK. If vaccines didn't work at all, then the risk of dying from Covid would be the same between vaccinated and not vaccinated people. With this logic in mind we would see different numbers today. At least we should see only 10% (not vaccinated population proportion) from the total number of deaths recorded for not vaccinated people.
That means from total of 1798 deaths we should see 180 never vaccinated people died.
With the above assumptions 2.98 times more than expected not vaccinated people died in UK this year.
The numbers sound bad but they are arguably would be much worse if no vaccines were administered at all.
Also, knowing more about vaccine protection deterioration after 6 months, information on how long ago deceased people were vaccinated would be handy to draw any conclusions.
I guess boosters are inevitable.
wotnot (03-09-21)
Yeah, that's all I distilled from that technical paper as well. There's a number of datapoints missing too, like how many of those who died had underlying health conditions (when those underlying conditions could be whether or not one has been a cigarette smoker all their life, which medically fits under 'diminished lungs capacity', which is what a lot of folks dying from this have as a pre-existing condition).
However, this is normal - we're seeing a lot of technical data but not so much medical data, and the latter will come at a later date once it's collated, and it will look retrospectively at the technical data, and help explain why the numbers we're seeing now, are what they are. My hepatologist reckons it'll be mid/end of 2022 before we see any medical picture, just due to the fact things are still in process, virus variants are emerging, and you've got this flux of the world's human population being either vaccinated or not, and from a medical science point of view what happens to the unvaccinated is every bit as important as finding effective vaccines to give projected 'future' protection.
The word 'future' has already been exampled for us -- initial vaccine types were formulated against the key virus structure (that specific type of coronavirus that's somehow jumped from animal kingdom into mankind's), which we all came to call the 'alpha' strain ; by they time they got the initial vaccine formulas out there, more strains of the virus started appearing as it mutated. This is okay more or less, because as they target the key virus sequence, you'll get roughly the same immunization benefits.. provided the virus mutations all follow a similar genome path and use the same mechanisms to infect the host. We already live with this construct, when it comes to the annual 'flu jab -- every year, the formulations of those vaccines change, to 'cover off' emerging new influenza mutations and/or ensure protection against the most prevalent influenza strain making the rounds through it's human hosts from year to year.
The latest variant, Mu ....(I bet you a whole bunch of the sales department at Isuzu just fell on their swords)... already has them worried, not because of what it is -now-, but because it demonstrates an alternate path of mutation covid19 might take in the wild (human society), that could see it evade the current vaccine protocols altogether ;; that would up the ante, and render the current vaccines 'limited' to the 'simpler' covid19 types... alpha thru delta.
Lets for a moment put aside the effectiveness of AZ ver Pfizer/Moderna.
Authorities are well aware that if they made Pfizer / Moderna right now available for the over 60, all these refusenik’s would show up for the jab, as long as it’s not AZ. Due to chronic shortage of Pfizer/ Moderna, the PM is sending letters to all those who are waiting for Pfizer/Moderna to change their mind and go for AZ.
Good luck with that effort, more waste as far as I am concerted, Better invest in more Pfizer or Moderna.
People are asking themselves
1. What is the real reason 60+ are locked out of Pfizer/Moderna.
2. Why was AZ meant to be phased out in October.
3. If AZ was as safe and effective as Pfizer why is the PM on the phone to our overseas friends trying to source more Pfizer, when there’s ample stock of AZ.
Going back to the opening post in this thread. “ you are in the jab room, your sleeve is rolled up ready to be pocked BUT wait... on the table before you there're 2 syringes, one loaded with Pfizer and the other with Astrazeneca, The nurse ask you to take a pick... need we say more... “
On this bases alone many prefer to stay home until they can get what the want. We all know, push comes to shave by Christmas or January will be awash with Pfizer and Moderna.
Last edited by B52; 04-09-21 at 05:25 PM.
....which will all be needed for the third jab, as it seems the protection of the 'fully vaccinated' will start to wear off for many in January.
For now the 4 million Pfizer are reserved for the full vaccination of school kids.
Last edited by Uncle Fester; 04-09-21 at 06:53 PM.
Update: A deletion of features that work well and ain't broke but are deemed outdated in order to add things that are up to date and broken.
Compatibility: A word soon to be deleted from our dictionaries as it is outdated.
Humans: Entities that are not only outdated but broken... AI-self-learning-update-error...terminate...terminate...
I agree with your statement with a small correction. Lets put aside effectiveness analysis for at least 12 months until more data is received.
I also suggest we use efficacy instead of effectiveness as they are not the same. All data currently published is about vaccine efficacy and is based on particular country, research size etc. It is different to effectiveness which varies between countries and based on real life results. I do not believe such data exists for Australia.
I also suggest people to read the article published by lancet for those who is trying to decide which vaccine to use based just on published efficacy numbers which really just a statistical data taken from small number of samples.
The article suggests the data at the moment is not something to be used to answer this topic question.
I guess, at the moment the best advice is to discuss with your GP if you can trust them 100% or with someone who posses enough knowledge in microbiology and virusology and then make your decision.
Interesting to note that the over 60 who work in health or age care can get Pfizer... whilst the rest can only get the AZ. why ?
Theres probably not enough Pfizer....just a thought. Given that the need is still miniscule compared to most of the rest of the planet, its hardly surprising.
My thoughts have not changed. Take what is available as soon as it's available. There will be time for adjustments later (hopefully..)
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
lsemmens (11-09-21)
Scientists say because rare clot problems chance drops with people age.
As of today Pfizer is available to all ages in the Northern Territories and some walk in centers in South Australia.
As AZ is phasing out currently I suspect from October Pfizer will be available to everyone throughout Australia.
Looks like only NSW and VIC still towing the PM line in regards to AZ.. Starting from this weekend QLD will join NT,WA and SA and will not turn away healthy over 60 from getting Pfizer. Just about all Pfizer vaccination centers in NSW offer walk in vaccination for the under 59, This indicates that there's enough of the good stuff and therefore the current strategy of Pfizer does not have a standing anymore.
Last edited by B52; 15-09-21 at 07:24 PM.
Youngest daughter (23) had her first Pfizzer injection today. Waited 15 minutes then went out to the car being driven by a friend. Immediately passed out deeply. They came out and retrieved her. She was comatose and wet her pants. Crazy.
Saw her about 30 mins later and she was fine.....well, wet and embarrassed, but fine otherwise.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
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