Reply With QuoteWho gives a #### about France, not me..
usages.kangaroos.sound
Australia losing friends!
I want to start a controversial thread(to keep this forum a bit alive) and am interested in your opinion on this matter with the submarines and our place in the world now on top of our unwillingness to commit to climate change which was already overshadowing us.
The news that France is removing diplomatic relationship from Australia because of us breaking a 'business deal' comes as a major shock to me!
That is what you do when you expect a war with a country.
Despite all our conflicts with China they still at least have embassies here.
While I am actually pleased that we finally dumped these useless overpriced submarines that Abbot proposed and Turnbull contracted,
both PMs who I have little respect, particularly the former, I was not aware until now that we actually ordered perfectly good Nuclear subs
and insisted on having them converted to 19th century diesel technology which led to the cost blowout.
This typical conservative Australian (stupid) mindset has suddenly changed, obviously pressured by the US who wish to have better access to the Indo Pacific if they feel the need to start a war with China.
Something that would be extreme madness and the USA does not have a good record of winning any wars since WW2.
I don't even want to go into details about what I have read about superior war tech and strategies both China and Russia have compared to the US,
which may or may not be true but even if half true, it makes us look like idiots... cough, US army ad...
Just imagine where the US stand when China destroys the US satellites and the war ships have to rely on the stars to navigate and find their targets and all the drones are grounded.
The next confrontation will also be about cyber wars, where China seems to have the upper hand pretty much everywhere.
What I don't understand is why didn't we just amend the contact with the French and take their Nuclear subs unaltered?
That would have also saved a lot of cash and probably finished before 2040, a date I doubt we would be needing them anymore.
Last edited by Uncle Fester; 18-09-21 at 12:34 PM.
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Who gives a #### about France, not me..
usages.kangaroos.sound
I am not that fond of the French either(although some will go out of their way to be helpful if you you try to speak French) but they are an important trading partner, kind of a doorstep to Europe who we need to escape from trading with China.
They may have also assisted with a conflict, particularly if we had bought Nuclear powered subs from them but now that seems highly unlikely.
Last edited by Uncle Fester; 18-09-21 at 12:46 PM.
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It was madness to order French nuclear submarines then try to stick diesel engines in them but would France have sold us nuclear powered submarines in the first place?
eaglem (19-09-21)
Originally Posted by hoe
+1 - I recall them for being infamous for things like this ...which is slightly more tacit for me, as in the late 70's I worked for CSIRO at Samford Station just west of Brisbane, and used to record all the readings from the meteorological monitors, which included a measurement on how much the background radio-activity was rising, after every time the frogs detonated a nuke.
eaglem (19-09-21),shred (22-09-21),Uncle Fester (18-09-21)
Lots of reasons, none of them good. This goes waaay back to Labors Collins Class debacle where the politicians (Labor) interfered with the procurement process and chose Kokkums to build the subs. Kokkums were not even on the finalists list. Why? Because the politicians were more obsessed with jobs, therefore seats in South Australia than a decent submarine. They chose a crock!
See "Steel, Spies and Spin, the story of the Collins."
Fast forward to Abbotts government, and the French idea was because politicians were more obsessed with jobs, therefore seats in South Australia than a decent submarine. We couldn't build a nuclear sub here. So the Coalition did almost exactly what Labor did. They chose a crock!
I think these subs are great idea that is 30 years too late.....both sides of politics have made a meal of this from the getgo.
,
As for the current situation in SE Asia, I couldn't give a sh!t. It is what it is and the west as a whole have gotten lazy and dropped the ball. Not just the politicians, but the people. The forces of dictatorship and oppression have the upper hand. It doesn't bode well for anyone who believes in freedom of speech and thought.
Regardless, I for one, won't meekly bend over to China and take it up the arse.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
Yes we (not you apparently) forget about those things over the years like the French sinking the Rainbow warrior that also assisted in relocating some of those affected by the fallout of the tests.
I also remember back then that most Australians couldn't stand Greenpeace, called them terrorists for protesting against the nuke testing and other environmental issues, including some of my own relatives.
So at that time I strongly disliked the French but unfortunately I also became aware of the strong conservative rightwing mindset of my place of birth, something I was too naive to notice at my age until then. I was living in Europe at the time but visited Australia often.
Last edited by Uncle Fester; 18-09-21 at 01:56 PM.
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I see the Kiwis have said these subs won't be allowed into their ports....thank "deity who doesn't exist!!".
By the time their built, China will probably own the place anyway thanks to belt and road.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
eaglem (19-09-21)
...and us, even without the B&R.
We will be in some reservations and zoos for the Chinese to visit and laugh upon.
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Wind and solar powered of course....just to rub our stupidity in our face.
I don't know if they will visit though, they'll probably be too busy digging up what used to be our coal.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
Yes, the allies are getting ready for the Chinese invasion of Taiwan, just hope we have the new subs in time
There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"
...except they won't be doing any actual digging.
We will be digging for them, BY HAND, including our leftover kids, like in Congo.
The leftover kids are the ones before we got genetically sterilised.
"One China, one world" we will be chanting at our 16hour works shifts, in between the whips with the long taser stick who refuse to chant.
I think we should start writing a book, I am getting too many ideas now.
Last edited by Uncle Fester; 18-09-21 at 03:00 PM.
Update: A deletion of features that work well and ain't broke but are deemed outdated in order to add things that are up to date and broken.
Compatibility: A word soon to be deleted from our dictionaries as it is outdated.
Humans: Entities that are not only outdated but broken... AI-self-learning-update-error...terminate...terminate...
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
Just wait a while and you can call it a memoir...
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
Uncle Fester (18-09-21),wotnot (18-09-21)
Yeah, retrospect offers a grandiose view for those with a memory to see it. Sadly, as the population ages & dies, less and less people are left who remember what took place in the past - give it another couple of decades, and there'll be no 'living memory' of what world war is actually like ; leads to the premise of contradiction when thinking about 'Lest We Forget' ...ie; eventually we will and it'll happen all again because we forgot =)
The whole submarine thang, is just comical, I can't even decide who's most at fault there - my brain gets stuck at this mental picture of me being a nuclear sub builder, with a commissioned, proven, in service design...and someone comes along and says "I'll take a few of those, in diesel"....ffs, I'm leaning on blaming the French here for accepting the contract in the first place ~ they should told our PM at the time to piss off, or else negotiated building a diesel boat to order.
On the other hand, it's just as stupid an order to arrive at in the first place if you ask me, but in my lifetime it's par for the course when it comes to aussie politicians expending tax-payers money on military spending -- AU gets the raw end of the deal, while the politicians shoot themselves in the foot ; nothing's changed here.
Also, the mechanic/petrol-head side of me has always held some disdain for the FIA for their ongoing meddling in/with motorsport, in the past bending the rules to suit le Tricolore.
Not that I have anything against the French, I've known/met more than a few over the years (my dad used to work for the BNP bank =), and they've all been cool people, but the meanderings of their country's political system has often seemed questionable, even to a non-political head like mine ...I wonder if I should award them style points? =^)
Uncle Fester (18-09-21)
I like the one being built out of concrete, on Patong Beach, Phuket back in about 1983..
Don't know if it got finished, looked the same when we saw it.
Last edited by bob_m_54; 18-09-21 at 08:49 PM.
enf (18-09-21),Uncle Fester (18-09-21),WhiteOx (19-09-21)
We could've bought British ... =)
Why worry about the Subs at all, Yes, I AM south Australian, and, YES it does have some benefit to the economy of the state, but, realistically, China isn't going to invade anywhere, just like the USSR didn't invade (before they fell apart - I think China will do better than THAT), all they need do is buy the place. I'm more worried about the idiots in the M.E. than an Asian (of any ilk) take over.
I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...
Lets see, The French could have said, "You know what Scomo, forget about the diesel motors, for the price we'll throw in nuclear propulsion and half the price. (and still you'll be paying double)
Oh the French are upset? How about the Chinese.
The pot and the fvcking wok China !
The Chinese navy has built 12 nuclear subs over the past 15 years.
They have more submarines than the USA and the USA has the world's largest navy, four times bigger than China and bigger than all of the world's other navies combined.
And France, don't pick a fight with us, we'll have better submarines than you!
Complain to China.
Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.
Just about this, I reckon I'm seeing too much flux and relocation going on, to suggest EU markets will be all that important to us in a short number of yearstime. I had to look it up or course, but France is 4th/5th in the list of EU countries when it comes to worth/volume of AU exports, and only 17th overall when it comes to countries AU exports to. More and more companies/operations are pulling out of CN and going to India, Malaysia, Thailand etc etc, and as these manufacturing industries move like this, AU will probably see more lucrative trade with much closer destinations...who knows. Time as always, will tell.
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