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Thread: Australia losing friends!

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    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    ENF, you are not going to like me for this BUT i could not believe what a stupid statement you made originally, go have a listen to what Malcolm Turnbull said
    I can't believe that you would believe a single WORD that comes out of Turnbulls mouth. You are the first ALP supporter that I know who would seem to believe him, and I live in ALP central.

    He HATES the coalition for what they did to him and even tried to insinuate indirectly that the poor girl was murdered to shut her up. Of course the Always Bullshit Corporation ran with it, they always do.

    I will NOT respond again in this thread....
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.



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    To be honest. Everyone is "bought" at some stage. We all do favours for friends, why should we hold our politicians, police, judges, to a higher standard? (Rhetorical question) It all depends upon how much we are paid........
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    I can't believe that you would believe a single WORD that comes out of Turnbulls mouth. You are the first ALP supporter that I know who would seem to believe him, and I live in ALP central.

    He HATES the coalition for what they did to him and even tried to insinuate indirectly that the poor girl was murdered to shut her up. Of course the Always Bullshit Corporation ran with it, they always do.

    I will NOT respond again in this thread....
    Thank god!
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    ​...back to our 'friends'...

    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    The Chinese have always viewed Taiwan as a province of China, and therefore their national ego will not allow them to let go.

    Taiwan is the clear leader in world manufacturing of computer chips, especially high end ones. Samsung also has a foundry capable of building these things, but it operates on a much smaller scale. Other countries are miniscule in comparison....
    Precisely! The CCP want's all of that.

    But Xi's blind madness for power is leading to the destruction of China's own economy.
    This is interesting:





    The Chinese Communist Party under the flawed leadership of Xi Jinping is going on a harakiri spree, taking down one profitable sector after another.
    Unfortunately him also letting their is another major blow to our own economy.
    All our iron ore companies are in free fall.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 21-09-21 at 11:36 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post

    Unfortunately him also letting their is another major blow to our own economy.
    All our iron ore companies are in free fall.
    Some of the numbers coming out are staggering ~ apparently CN annually consumes over 60% of the concrete used worldwide

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    If Xi really refuses to bail in/out(whatever they call it), we can call the next GFC.
    Analysts don't get it. It is not about financial institutions, economics is about growth and without productivity there is none.
    Poo Bear with all his regulations must be suffering dementia, ignoring how China became what they are today.

    I wonder if the CCP have regulations and commissions about the mental state of their leader?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    ...........................

    I wonder if the CCP have regulations and commissions about the mental state of their leader?
    I doubt it. "Leaders for Life" tend to remove these sorts of things if they ever existed in the first place.

    Find some links on EVERGRANDE. Chinas premier building company that is in freefall and is already defaulting.....I had a bit of trouble bypassing firewalls, so I gave up.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Heres one...The Age.....no firewall....doh!

    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    It's all over ewetoob anyhow, with just about every possible and hypothetical story outcome you could imagine.

    Btw, was that a response to this thread?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    I want to start a controversial thread(to keep this forum a bit alive) and am interested in your opinion on this matter with the submarines and our place in the world now on top of our unwillingness to commit to climate change which was already overshadowing us.
    Why commit to do something and then do nothing ? That's what every major country has done. Lets take NZ as an example, big on lefty rhetoric, but never ever meet any of their emission targets. Australia on the other hand, doesnt sign up to meaningless waffle, yet still manages to beat every target put before it. I take that tokenism is more important to you than actual results ? Because that's all that these climate agreements actually are. Where's Tim Flannery these days ? Under water or parched in the desert waste land ? According to Tim, both were meant to wipe us out a decade ago.


    While I am actually pleased that we finally dumped these useless overpriced submarines that Abbot proposed and Turnbull contracted,
    both PMs who I have little respect, particularly the former, I was not aware until now that we actually ordered perfectly good Nuclear subs
    and insisted on having them converted to 19th century diesel technology which led to the cost blowout.
    Well the French actually blew the cost from 50 billion to 90 billion before even doing a single thing, but we won't let that stand in the way of a good yarn. Our contract stipulated a number of targets had to be met at certain stages, they were not met. The contract also stated we could pack things up and leave it if the French couldn't produce at a specific cost and at a specific time. Hence where we are now. It's also worth noting that the diesel electric (not just diesel) submarines the French were making for us would have been produced during and after the time that fossil fuels are being phased out....that's how far the French are behind already.

    No, we did not order Nuclear submarines. We ordered modified hybrids of the French model, diesel electric. BTW, if you have a gripe about us not having nuclear submarines, then you obviously hate the Labor party who have blocked us having exactly that for decades.

    This typical conservative Australian (stupid) mindset has suddenly changed, obviously pressured by the US who wish to have better access to the Indo Pacific if they feel the need to start a war with China.
    Something that would be extreme madness and the USA does not have a good record of winning any wars since WW2.
    The "typical conservative mindset" that you claim is hilarious. Nothing has changed, the Coalition has wanted nuclear submarines since day dot. The Labor party will not allow them, but have been outsmarted.
    Pressured ? Lol, you have no idea on what side of the fence you are sitting. One paragraph you love them, but if we get the best from the US, you hate them. Maybe we could just go with electric only ? Surface once a day, great for the environment except when the enemy blows you up.


    What I don't understand is why didn't we just amend the contact with the French and take their Nuclear subs unaltered?
    That would have also saved a lot of cash and probably finished before 2040, a date I doubt we would be needing them anymore.
    It always pays to at least do some homework on a topic if you know nothing about it.

    Why don't we take French nuclear submarines ? Why would we when there are far superior submarines out there and that's exactly what we are getting.

    We are only getting them because the Federal Government has outsmarted Labor on the issue. American submarines reactor life is the life of the submarine. No removal of anything required. And that is exactly how the Coalition defeated Labor on the issue, no nuclear industry required. French nuclear submarines require refuelling every 10-15 years. For that reason they were never an option in the first place.

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  • #51
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    Admin excels in twisting my words and totally bypassing my points while adding non facts.
    Always did always will.
    For starters he should wake up to the fact that Labor has not governed Australia for about a decade and it's sole role is to complain about everything.
    There was nothing that could have stopped Abbot or Turnbull to go the nuclear powered option while they were in full power and it has been my understanding that the Coalition insisted on retrofitting an original nuclear design to fossil fuel, that has blown out the cost.

    Also the Labor party has no influence on this sudden change of heart.
    Again they can complain all they like, be it the subs or the all-in-one-basket-Astrazenica strategy, the Coalition does what it wants to do and will never admit to any mistakes or apologise for it's stupidity. They pissed off the French, at least they could have had the courage to say sorry.

    As for the meaningless waffle with climate change targets, yes I agree it IS!
    But if you don't play the game you are out and heavy tariffs will be blocking you if you need alternative markets to replace China.
    Who gives a damn if any of these targets are fulfilled in 30 years. All these pollies won't be in office, many not even alive.
    ScoMo, just play the stupid game and stop being so stubborn stupid.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 21-09-21 at 10:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wotnot View Post
    It's all over ewetoob anyhow, with just about every possible and hypothetical story outcome you could imagine.

    Btw, was that a response to this thread?
    China is a great example of a friend (economy wise) who we have lost, so yes.

    It looks like Xi was doing everything to stuff up our economy and was successful by cutting off their realestate boom to dump Iron ore prices but maybe he was a bit too 'successful'.
    China must find a covert way in bailing out Evergrande to avoid the embarrassment of copying Western methods, while handing out unfinished real estate to it's debtors is a liquidation mess.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 21-09-21 at 10:00 PM.
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    This is bound to impress ~ one part of the rhetoric is that AU having nuclear subs, makes it more likely to become a (nuke) target, but personally I think this is more likely to turn interests our way ->

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    I find some of the comments here narrow minded and totally out of content. Nuclear subs or aircraft carriers existed since the 60th. It refers to the propulsion of the vessel verses a nuclear armed vessel or aircraft or any other delivery vehicle design to carry and deploy nuclear weapons which can be anything. The Enola Gay was a piston aircraft which brought a quick end to WW2, (can start a new thread on this topic if you wish)

    Nuclear powered sub have the advantage of staying submerged for years and without the need to refuel, Diesel electric have to surface frequently to replenish the air needed for the diesel engines which are used to charge the batteries.

    It seems many here and New Zealand, putting anything nuclear in the same basket, regardless of the usage. There’s a nuclear reactor in Sydney’s, Lucas Heights, and nobody is too concerned about it. In fact the suburb has one of the most expensive Real Estate.
    Last edited by B52; 22-09-21 at 03:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by B52 View Post
    I find some of the comments here narrow minded and totally out of content. Nuclear subs or aircraft carriers existed since the 60th. It refers to the propulsion of the vessel verses a nuclear armed vessel or aircraft or any other delivery vehicle design to carry and deploy nuclear weapons which can be anything. The Enola Gay was a piston aircraft which brought a quick end to WW2, (can start a new thread on this topic if you wish)

    Nuclear powered sub have the advantage of staying submerged for years and without the need to refuel, Diesel electric have to surface frequently to replenish the air needed for the diesel engines which are used to charge the batteries.

    It seems many here and New Zealand, putting anything nuclear in the same basket, regardless of the usage. There’s a nuclear reactor in Sydney’s, Lucas Heights, and nobody is too concerned about it. In fact the suburb has one of the most expensive Real Estate.
    I am quite certain everybody posting here on this tech forum is fully aware what a nuclear (powered) submarine is and the advantages.

    I am also quite certain that the population of certain Asian countries are not aware of the differences between a nuclear powered and nuclear armed submarine, the word "powered" being lost in translation intentionally or out of ignorance to use as propaganda against us and see us as a nuclear armed threat in order to 'justify' their means of militarisation of the south China sea.

    [RANT] A lot of things get lost in translation and that is why these things must be kept either on a need to know basis or carefully and diplomatically managed and not like the Scomo/Dutton duopoly blabbered out from one day to the next in the most incompetent undiplomatic way.

    I see history repeating itself just like ScoMo went all alone in demanding from China to allow us to investigate the source of Covid-19 without first informing and discussing this sensitive matter with all the other countries involved and approaching China in a consolidated effort.
    After the repercussions of the ScoMo disaster, nobody dared to attempt an independent investigation and so they left it up to the WHO, who we all know would lead to nothing.

    ScoMo just keeps stepping in the poo and his best bud Nazi-Dutton can't stop talking about war.
    Just keep it up and their wish will be fulfilled! [/RANT]
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 22-09-21 at 06:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    I am quite certain everybody posting here on this tech forum is fully aware what a nuclear (powered) submarine is and the advantages.

    I am also quite certain that the population of certain Asian countries are not aware of the differences between a nuclear powered and nuclear armed submarine, the word "powered" being lost in translation intentionally or out of ignorance to use as propaganda against us and see us as a nuclear armed threat in order to 'justify' their means of militarisation of the south China sea.

    [RANT] A lot of things get lost in translation and that is why these things must be kept either on a need to know basis or carefully and diplomatically managed and not like the Scomo/Dutton duopoly blabbered out from one day to the next in the most incompetent undiplomatic way.

    I see history repeating itself just like ScoMo went all alone in demanding from China to allow us to investigate the source of Covid-19 without first informing and discussing this sensitive matter with all the other countries involved and approaching China in a consolidated effort.
    After the repercussions of the ScoMo disaster, nobody dared to attempt an independent investigation and so they left it up to the WHO, who we all know would lead to nothing.

    ScoMo just keeps stepping in the poo and his best bud Nazi-Dutton can't stop talking about war.
    Just keep it up and their wish will be fulfilled! [/RANT]
    What a lot of ridiculous gobbledegook! Actually, that is what you seem to be suggesting we should do....gobbledegook!

    Perhaps they should have just asked them to come clean...I'm sure they would have. After all, they are our friends, and not a ruthless and moralless (thats not a word) regime of murderers and thugs. Why is Dutton a Nazi? Because he wont bend over and take it up the arse?

    They SHOULD be called out for what they are and what they have done, by the world, not just us.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    ...
    They SHOULD be called out for what they are and what they have done, by the world, not just us.
    Yes that was my point!
    and not ScoMo the great leader who can do everything himself...NOT!
    I doubt Biden can fix this mess now but he is trying at least, the only man with experience on the western side of this planet, at least the other side might see him that way and listen somewhat.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 22-09-21 at 08:22 PM.
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    OK let me try to make it clear what ScoMo SHOULD have done with this friends thing.

    Covid investigation:
    If ScoMo was actually serious about that, he should have first quietly contacted Merkel, Johnson, Macron and Trump(Trump would have loved that) to work out a concerted effort in determining the origin of Covid. Then China would have had a much tougher time and could not single out us as the enemy and an easy target to bully and stuff up our fragile economy.
    Instead all ScoMo wanted is to get 'likes' from his fans, to show them what a tough guy he is to stand up against huge China and it seems his fans fell for that and got sucked in.
    Well wake up, all of you, governing a country is NOT a footy match.

    Subs:
    Clearly put first all options on the table with the French deal, like rolling back the diesel fit out and negotiating their nuclear version. What is with this sudden rush, when it takes another 20 years to get the US version?
    Only very bad people suddenly break a deal without negotiating first.

    It looks like they ARE going to lease some subs from the US as I suggested earlier.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 22-09-21 at 09:11 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post

    Subs:
    Clearly put first all options on the table with the French deal, like rolling back the diesel fit out and negotiating their nuclear version. What is with this sudden rush, when it takes another 20 years to get the US version?
    Only very bad people suddenly break a deal without negotiating first.
    Hypothetical ~ what if things kicked off earlier than 'informed predictions', and it transpires AU needs these subs inside the next 5years? Like you observe, there definitely is a push on and usually that comes with a reason.

    I find it impossible to speculate on AU breaking contract with the French, merely because I've no idea of what a contract like that looks like, what T&C's are written into same, however given the fact it keeps getting mentioned that AU is going to have to pay for severing the contract, usually such contract terminations don't happen 'at whim' and there's some other underlying mechanism that triggers it...ie; one party repeatedly failing to meet contractual obligations.

    Did some more number digging for context -- annual AU exports to FR = roughly $1.2billion : estimated loss of AU exports to CN since the CCP hardlined AU imports = $6.6billion ; IMHO France doesn't matter as much as realizing any future fracas with CN is right on our doorstep and not ten thousand kays away. For all we know, the french may have repeatedly missed several milestone junctures during execution of the contract thus far, and been feeding the AU ministry BS excuses for years and years, and the AU powers-that-be may have realized they simply won't get these subs from France 'in time'. In saying that, the perception of 'in time' has very much shifted latterly since the covid19 outbreak, and the general under-current of western nations opposing the CCP's vision and distancing themselves from CN, which itself would appear to be suffering itself from an fast descending economic decline : if they were aiming to take TW, the impetus for them to do that 'in time', would be very real.

    I have to imagine for a moment that AU actually having these subs, equipped only with conventional weapons, would even bolster our military capabilities or strategic importance, but if they did and were indeed needed, I'd rather have them sooner than later, and any notions of business ethics be damned =)

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    Quote Originally Posted by wotnot View Post
    Hypothetical ~ what if things kicked off earlier than 'informed predictions', and it transpires AU needs these subs inside the next 5years? Like you observe, there definitely is a push on and usually that comes with a reason.

    I find it impossible to speculate on AU breaking contract with the French, merely because I've no idea of what a contract like that looks like, what T&C's are written into same, however given the fact it keeps getting mentioned that AU is going to have to pay for severing the contract, usually such contract terminations don't happen 'at whim' and there's some other underlying mechanism that triggers it...ie; one party repeatedly failing to meet contractual obligations.

    Did some more number digging for context -- annual AU exports to FR = roughly $1.2billion : estimated loss of AU exports to CN since the CCP hardlined AU imports = $6.6billion ; IMHO France doesn't matter as much as realizing any future fracas with CN is right on our doorstep and not ten thousand kays away. For all we know, the french may have repeatedly missed several milestone junctures during execution of the contract thus far, and been feeding the AU ministry BS excuses for years and years, and the AU powers-that-be may have realized they simply won't get these subs from France 'in time'. In saying that, the perception of 'in time' has very much shifted latterly since the covid19 outbreak, and the general under-current of western nations opposing the CCP's vision and distancing themselves from CN, which itself would appear to be suffering itself from an fast descending economic decline : if they were aiming to take TW, the impetus for them to do that 'in time', would be very real.

    I have to imagine for a moment that AU actually having these subs, equipped only with conventional weapons, would even bolster our military capabilities or strategic importance, but if they did and were indeed needed, I'd rather have them sooner than later, and any notions of business ethics be damned =)
    That would all make sense if the USA deal would be a sooner delivery but the opposite seems to be the case.
    And doesn't anybody realise that it took only 3 years to build the Titanic in 1912, so why does it take 20 years for the USA or France to build a sub in the 21st Century?

    2040 is never going to be 'in time' as technology, including war tech is developing exponentially.

    Our dumb gov is being screwed all over, just lease existing subs and cancel all the other deals.
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