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Thread: Nuclear power in Australia

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    In 2020, 24% of Australia’s total electricity generation was from renewable energy sources, including solar (9%), wind (9%) and hydro (6%). The share of renewables in total electricity generation in 2020 was the highest since levels recorded in the mid-1960s.

    Hmm, be careful Unco, think those figures may be boosted by the time frame 9-00am to 5-00pm, there may be back up required at other times that may go close to 90%???? ie after dark on a wind less night. Believe as of today, weekly supplies have been in the order of 50% renewables, what is going to happen when they reach 400% requirement renewable energy production!

    And the saying, When the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine, may be a little hard to promote as the inter connector is going to be as long as the distance from London to New Delhi!
    ...and that is where Twiggy's Ammonia will kick in.

    That 24% is relative to the TOTAL electricity generation over the year not just a selected time period. Obviously more is generated in day light hours but consumption is also higher in business hours, while batteries are already in use to handle peak evening hours.
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    I don't think it's about 'Cost'. More a point of 'Depletion' of existing resources, not to mention the present repercussions/pollution etc. etc.
    I saw a documentary today, about Coal & Gas, and how prior to that they burned 'Peat', but it's not there forever of course. So of course,
    Nuclear energy is the way to go, especially due to the population size of the World now. But 'YES' we need to have better storage of byproducts.

    Years ago, I worked in Tasmania on Hydro-Electric plants/townships. Sounds cheap, but the 'infrastructure' to build it all, including all the reservoirs,
    dams, lower than output 'Stations' (compared to the Mainland), and many other reasons, it's actually more expensive than Coal/Gas fired Stations!!
    Short of eradicating the population!, we are simply going to have to move forward, no matter what the 'price' to humanity...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ah-Those-Old-Days! View Post
    Years ago, I worked in Tasmania on Hydro-Electric plants/townships. Sounds cheap, but the 'infrastructure' to build it all, including all the reservoirs,
    dams, lower than output 'Stations' (compared to the Mainland), and many other reasons, it's actually more expensive than Coal/Gas fired Stations!!
    Short of eradicating the population!, we are simply going to have to move forward, no matter what the 'price' to humanity...
    yeah wouldnt be cheap , but wasnt someone working on a interconnector between Tas and Vic to resell some capacity and offset costs ? remember reading about it years ago , dont know if it was ever completed

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    Quote Originally Posted by VroomVroom View Post
    yeah wouldnt be cheap , but wasnt someone working on a interconnector between Tas and Vic to resell some capacity and offset costs ? remember reading about it years ago , dont know if it was ever completed
    Basslink interconnector has been working since 2006.
    Cheers, Tiny
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    In 2030 petrol station will sell Hydrogen fuel, Current lithium ion technology for vehicles can not match the Hydrogen refuelling speed which is on par with refuelling petrol. It is a temporary technology and will be phased out for vehicles.

    To make the trillions or so litters of Hydrogen needed to power all the rolling vehicles, Trains, Trucks, Cars, Airplane, from wind and solar is not possible… If anybody visited Europe in the last few years, noted the windmills on each and every hill top We are talking millions of Windmills just think of the logistics costs in servicing and maintaining them. Solar panels all have a used by date 15 to 20 years after which they end up in a land fill …. Since the sun and winds are not always there .... Nuclear is the only way….

    About the Daiichi_nuclear_disaster… Did you know …?
    Last edited by B52; 20-10-21 at 03:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny View Post
    Basslink interconnector has been working since 2006.
    ... and up went our power bills, up up up...
    Cheers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Bundy View Post
    ... and up went our power bills, up up up...
    I wonder why?

    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    I also wonder why this has not occurred?
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Bundy View Post
    ... and up went our power bills, up up up...
    Very odd conclusion.

    Fact is that our power bills when up after the electricity sector was privatised.

    Another fact is since Australia's power generation has been 24% renewables(2020) I have been paying 30% less per kWh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    I also wonder why this has not occurred?
    ...because ScoMo is all talk (to keep his job) and little do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    ...because ScoMo is all talk (to keep his job) and little do.
    Oooh, you wait till ENF sees that Unco
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    Very odd conclusion.

    Fact is that our power bills when up after the electricity sector was privatised.

    Another fact is since Australia's power generation has been 24% renewables(2020) I have been paying 30% less per kWh.
    Obviously not a Tasmanian then, or you would know exactly what I was talking about instead of dribbling your usual rote drivel

    That maybe why Your Power bills went up, but wasn’t why Tasmanian’s power bills went up
    Last edited by Al Bundy; 21-10-21 at 05:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    Oooh, you wait till ENF sees that Unco
    Why would you say that? Isn't that what all politicians do? Probably too busy in Victoria branch stacking....

    I think Scomo should promise them whatever they want. It's a bunch of bullsh!t anyway, so he should go for it as far as I'm concerned.... In fact, he should copy the ALP policy targets and promise them. That way when the government changes in a few months they'll have no cause to complain.

    COP26....Where billionaires and politicians arrive in Glasgow in gas guzzling private jets and spend 2 weeks thinking up imaginative ways of getting people on minimum wage, to feel guilty, pay more tax and stop holidaying abroad. All to save the climate.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    Why would you say that? Isn't that what all politicians do? Probably too busy in Victoria branch stacking....

    I think Scomo should promise them whatever they want. It's a bunch of bullsh!t anyway, so he should go for it as far as I'm concerned.... In fact, he should copy the ALP policy targets and promise them. That way when the government changes in a few months they'll have no cause to complain.

    COP26....Where billionaires and politicians arrive in Glasgow in gas guzzling private jets and spend 2 weeks thinking up imaginative ways of getting people on minimum wage, to feel guilty, pay more tax and stop holidaying abroad. All to save the climate.
    He needs to copy ALP policy if he doesn't want to the gov to change in a few months.


    That is the whole concept.
    We can either build expensive nuclear power where only a few jobs are created and even fewer get rich or renewable energy that will create millions of jobs(worldwide) and heaps of ppl get rich.

    That is the REAL reason why nuclear can never happen.

    Hope you liked my colour coding

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Bundy View Post
    Obviously not a Tasmanian then, or you would know exactly what I was talking about instead of dribbling your usual rote drivel

    That maybe why Your Power bills went up, but wasn’t why Tasmanian’s power bills went up
    Al, as a ex Comalco employee, i think your electricity bills are high because all Tasmanian's are subsidizing the electricity for the aluminum plant in Bell Bay (fact), as well as a Zinc Plant(?)
    If they have to use the inter connector to full fill their electricity supply contract, i sure that would not come cheap
    See Twiggy was down there last week trying to hold the state to ransom to get free electricity for his proposed Hydrogen Plant, if that goes ahead you will be paying for that as well (cannot relocate the link)
    How can you go wrong if it costs you nothing for your power !
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    Al, as a ex Comalco employee, i think your electricity bills are high because all Tasmanian's are subsidizing the electricity for the aluminum plant in Bell Bay (fact), as well as a Zinc Plant(?)
    If they have to use the inter connector to full fill their electricity supply contract, i sure that would not come cheap
    See Twiggy was down there last week trying to hold the state to ransom to get free electricity for his proposed Hydrogen Plant, if that goes ahead you will be paying for that as well (cannot relocate the link)
    How can you go wrong if it costs you nothing for your power !
    Yes mate, I agree, has always been the case, having worked for Hydro/Aurora Energy/TasNetworks for close on 40 years, the moment we became part of the NEM (and thus Bass Link) we were held to ransom by the vagaries of "Spot Trading" unlike other states we have never been privatised, that be Generation, Transmission or Distribution. With the advent of solar (and to a lesser extent wind) in Tassie the realisation was made very quickly that unless fee pricing structures weren't changed (i.e. the Service Charge v the Unit price) to place more emphasis on recouping Generation, Transmission and Distribution costs the Tasmanian Government was going to be in big trouble financially.
    So, emphasis was placed on restructuring our Power Bills so as to charge way more for the "Service Charge" with the appearance of paying way less per Actual Unit of power, in other words, robbing Peter to pay Paul and making it look like our "Power Bills" were cheaper and in the process removing a lot of incentive for people to install Solar, that and quite drastically reducing the feed in tariffs for those who had, whereas in real terms overall we payed more, and still do.

    Contrary to what some elsewhere in this thread believe.
    Last edited by Al Bundy; 22-10-21 at 01:53 PM.
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    Matt Kean, Energy Minister for NSW when interviewed today on TV
    Quote
    1. It would take Australia 15 years to get up to scratch with the expertise required to run an atomic power plant even before it was constructed
    2. Atomic power is 2-3 times the price of coal and gas, not even taking renewables into account
    3. People who believe that atomic power is the answer either believe in Unicorns or are delusional
    4. The moderates in the Liberal Govt will never allow an atomic plant in Australia
    5. If the Federal Govt wants to waste their money building a gas fired power station in NSW, he is not going to stop them as the money will benefit NSW
    End of quotes
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

  • #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    Then you must be mega pissed off that Australia's no. 1 Greenwasher Andrew Forest is building the world's largest manufacturing centre of wind turbines, solar photovoltaic cells, electrolysers, long-range electric cabling, electrification systems and associated infrastructure for a mere 0.65 Billion including a factory to produce electrolysers with the initial capacity of 2 gigawatts per annum for a laughable 0.083 Billion.
    China will make a fortune as usual as they burn low grade coal 24/7 to make this "renewable" stuff. Then when it gets to Australia, we will subsidise it heavily so it looks like it's cheap.

    Forest, Australia's number one criminal just keeps on giving.

    Of course he wouldn't make any money if we had baseload nuclear power, so he has to keep spruiking the subsidised chinese junk. Even some of the real loons are even realising that Nuclear is of course the only option for the entire world.


    At the height of Extinction Rebellion’s protests in London in 2019, spokeswoman Zion Lights appeared on the BBC in an interview with veteran journalist Andrew Neil. Under the hot glare of studio lamps, Lights was grilled about her group’s claims. Specifically, Neil wanted to know whether she could defend the argument that six billion people were likely to die this century because of climate change.

    Lights faltered and was unable to give a convincing reply. Later, she confessed it was because she knew the claim to be wrong. Not long after this interview, Lights left Extinction Rebellion, citing overly alarmist rhetoric as one of the reasons for her departure. Despite this, she remains passionate about mitigating climate change and has since started her own organisation, Emergency Reactor, which emphasises nuclear power as a clean and safe form of energy.

    Disenchanted with traditional environmentalism, Lights is one of a handful of leaders navigating a new path in this arena. Michael Shellenberger, author of Apocalypse Never: Why Environmental Alarmism Hurts Us All, is another. These figures are not associated with green political parties and do not seek to tear down “the system” or to profit from investments made in renewable technologies. Their orientation is pragmatic: they wish to see the world make the transition from dirty sources of energy to clean as quickly and as safely as possible. And nuclear energy is seen as a critical part of that transition.

    Surprisingly, this position appears to be a minority stance among green activists.

    To understand why it is unusual for environmental activists to advocate for nuclear energy, one has to go back to the movement’s origins. Long before climate change was on the radar, the threat of nuclear war and the fear of nuclear energy had galvanised progressives. By the mid-1970s the anti-nuclear movement had gained traction, with huge protests successfully closing down nuclear plants in Spain, France, Germany, The Philippines, Italy, the US and the Soviet Union. In 1985, 350,000 people marched in Australia in support of the anti-nuclear agenda. It was out of these protests that many modern-day green parties were born.

    For baby boomers, nuclear weapons and nuclear energy were conflated as an existential risk that could wipe out humanity. While the danger of nuclear armament during the Cold War was real, the risks posed by nuclear power plants were needlessly inflated, creating an irrational fear that persists today.


    This is not to say there are no risks associated with nuclear energy. When the Chernobyl reactor exploded in 1986, two operating staff were killed and 134 station staff and firefighters were hospitalised with acute radiation syndrome. Of these 134 staff, 28 later died, and 14 died of suspected radiation-related cancer in the following decade. These deaths were tragic and preventable, and the Chernobyl explosion should never have happened (the explosion occurred during a faulty safety test). But while it was predicted that thousands would die from subsequent radiation, present research indicates fewer than 100 deaths can be attributed to exposure to radiation caused by the accident.

    At Fukushima in 2011, the second worst nuclear power plant disaster to occur in civilian history, one person died from cancer attributable to radiation exposure while two workers were taken to hospital with radiation burns. Sixteen more were hospitalised with injuries related to hydrogen explosions.

    While these disasters were tragic and shocking, the scale of these fatalities pales in comparison with those caused by fossil fuels every year. The dirty energy that continues to power most of the world doesn’t just release carbon into the atmosphere, it also diminishes air quality through releasing fine particulate matter that makes people sick. One study from Harvard University has estimated eight million people globally died from air pollution in 2018 and that air pollution caused by burning coal and diesel was responsible for one in five deaths worldwide.

    Fear of radioactive waste also has plagued a generation of green activists. But while it is true high-level radioactive waste does require painstaking regulation and processing, the fact nuclear energy is so dense means only a small amount of waste is produced in comparison with the vast amount of energy generated.

    In France, where 75 per cent of the nation’s electricity is produced by nuclear power plants, the annual per capita amount of radioactive waste generated is 1kg (of which only 11g is “high level” waste), compared with 2500kg of industrial waste (of which 100kg is toxic).

    For baby boomers, opposing nuclear arms and nuclear power go hand-in-hand. These positions have been linked inextricably because nuclear power has been feared for its potential to produce pollution. Yet solar panels generate less energy and discarded panels cause pollution.

    The problem with the traditional approach to environmentalism has been its ideol#ogical confusion and lack of tangible achievements. On the one hand green activists call for clean energy to replace fossil fuels and with the other they oppose nuclear power. In their position statement last year, the Australian Greens explicitly oppose nuclear power in all its forms.

    When the Indian Point nuclear plant in the US was shut down recently, the power generated by the plant was replaced by power generated from natural gas, a fossil fuel source that emits more pollution, not less.

    With this muddle of priorities, is it any real surprise that no real progress in reducing carbon emissions has been made? As Lights recently pointed out on social media, if baby boomers had not spent decades getting nuclear power plants shut down, the world would be much closer to being carbon neutral.


    Now of course Mr Twig won't see the light with the bucketloads of money coming his way, but it is refreshing to see even green radicals seeing the light.

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    Given the speed the govt. moves in this country, I'll be dead and buried by the time anyone turns the first sod on AU's first nuclear power-plant =)

    Also, FTR, this is...and will always be....the first thing that jumps into my mind when I hear the naming 'Twiggy' ...


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