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Thread: Fisher Paykel fridge product 20040

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    Default Fisher Paykel fridge product 20040

    Hi all, above fridge beeping continuously with flashing upper or lower compartment LED’s. Both compartments cold. Have tried setting both compartments to full cold or warm.

    Door alarm is 3 short beeps so not the doors.

    Pressing either of the compartment buttons silences the alarm for a few hours. Motor running nearly all the time, might stop occasionally for half hour or so.

    Any thoughts please?
    Last edited by Variable; 14-12-21 at 10:26 AM.



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    More info.
    What is the model number ? (on the label inside the fridge)

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    Model is 20040. I can give you the serial number too? Single door, Freezer on bottom.

    Also, switched mains off for 30s but no change.

    Thanks.

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    Seems to be an E402BRI (?)...

    Going by the compressor always running description, it could be the blinking lights indicate thermistor/thermostat failure (but I also see listings for an updated cabinet fan assembly to address some problem these were prone to). Is the fan running?

    If the compressor is stuck on due to a failed contactor/relay (if used), that's something else but I always start there 'just in case' ; then I'd check the thermostat circuit for operation.

    Can't find any service manual reference for this one =(

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    Quote Originally Posted by Variable View Post
    Model is 20040. I can give you the serial number too? Single door, Freezer on bottom.

    Also, switched mains off for 30s but no change.

    Thanks.
    That's a strange model number.
    Have a look here :

    Better still, include a photo of the label.

    Do you hear a fan running ?
    Last edited by loopyloo; 17-12-21 at 12:13 PM.

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    I found the model number E402B.

    Another observation….the continuous beeping starts a while after the motor stops. A few minutes later, the motor starts. It’s like the beeping is a high temp alarm but it has trouble restarting the motor?

    I can hear a fan.

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    As I speculated, it's an E402B...

    Do this and report back -->

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    Thanks for link. My fridge has control panel example 2. The green upper compartment LED flashes continuously. Is that fault code 64?

    Upper compartment temp is 14C and lower compartment is not freezing.

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    Going by what you describe about the failure ...being long compressor running time and yet fridge compart only gets down to 14C & freezer compart not going under 0C, and you report the compart fan(s) are running, it probably points to a compressor/refrigerant system failure of some kind ; note, I'm not at all familiar with your model fridge and exactly what monitoring sensors they use, but it might be throwing a warning related to blocked refrigerant drier/filter or something else like this.

    edit: was this an 'all of a sudden stopped working' scenario, or a gradual degradation of cooling performance?
    Last edited by wotnot; 23-12-21 at 01:02 PM.

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    Just a gradual, thx.

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    OK, some sort of compressor/refrigerant failure seems likely ~ it could be as simple as a small crack/leak in the refrigeration circuit (loss of refrigerant), or as mentioned drier/filter kaput ; in any event, time for a tech to check that system out (it's not going to be an easy electronics fix imho)

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    Forgive me for stating the obvious, but is the evaporator frozen up? Such a condition would equate to the described symptoms.
    The refrigerant charge is so small in an R600a unit that it would leak out in a minute if the sealed system was open to atmosphere.
    Gradual degradation in cooling performance for a single low temperature evaporator system points firstly to a clogged evaporator.
    A refrigerant blockage is most likely to occur in the capillary tube or filter/dryer. You can check whether there is a temperature drop across the dryer with a simple thermocouple probe; any more than 1K is unacceptable.
    Next step is to pierce the system and hopefully getting some useful gauge readings. Also R600a runs in vacuum on the suction line during normal operation.
    A lazy compressor with bad valve plates may be the cause? Fault codes are less than helpful in such circumstances.
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    Well if the evaporator is frozen(not always easy visible because of plastic covers) then you have a faulty defrost heater element.
    Not that easy to remove the cover as it will be frozen with all it's nooks and crannies with big blocks of ice to the evaporator.
    Will have to shut down and wait possibly 24 hours for it all to melt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    Well if the evaporator is frozen(not always easy visible because of plastic covers) then you have a faulty defrost heater element...
    After 20+ years in tech support for various global brands, one is loathe to commit to a diagnosis without checking the obvious.
    A poorly sealed compartment door gasket can allow moist air to penetrate the FC. Defrost timing control is subject to factory algorithms via government regulatory mandates.
    An evaporator can ice up slowly and defrost will terminate after a pre-determined time.
    Defrost element failure may be the cause; however, prudence should dictate that one should observe first and proceed when armed with knowledge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVguy View Post
    After 20+ years in tech support for various global brands, one is loathe to commit to a diagnosis without checking the obvious.
    A poorly sealed compartment door gasket can allow moist air to penetrate the FC. Defrost timing control is subject to factory algorithms via government regulatory mandates.
    An evaporator can ice up slowly and defrost will terminate after a pre-determined time.
    Defrost element failure may be the cause; however, prudence should dictate that one should observe first and proceed when armed with knowledge.
    My roughly 18 year old Samsung fridge has thermistors on both defroster heaters.
    They inform the CPU when the defrost cycle has actually completed, not a timer.
    From memory the thermistor on the evaporator should reach around 8˚C before the defrosting ends to ensure all ice is gone.
    From above I can see Variable's fridge has an evaporator sensor which would indicate such a thermistor.

    The timer is there, together with counting the compressor runtime when to start a defrost cycle.

    However the defroster thermistor could also be faulty.

    Then Variable notices :
    Another observation….the continuous beeping starts a while after the motor stops.
    This could be after a problem detected with the defrost cycle.

    Independent from all that of course a faulty door seal could be keeping his compressor running but you asked if the evaporator was iced up.
    To find that out one would first have to get at the evaporator and that can be quite a PITA if it IS iced up.

    Most fridges have a schematic stuck somewhere or can be found online.
    It would be fairly simple to find the colour coded wires for the heater and thermistor and check from the motherboard plugs for continuity.

    The thermistor in the kΩ range, the heater somewhere between roughly 100Ω-200Ω.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 25-12-21 at 03:33 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    My roughly 18 year old Samsung fridge has thermistors on both defroster heaters.
    They inform the CPU when the defrost cycle has actually completed, not a timer.
    From memory the thermistor on the evaporator should reach around 8˚C before the defrosting ends to ensure all ice is gone.
    From above I can see Variable's fridge has an evaporator sensor which would indicate such a thermistor.

    The timer is there, together with counting the compressor runtime when to start a defrost cycle.

    However the defroster thermistor could also be faulty.

    Then Variable notices :
    This could be after a problem detected with the defrost cycle.

    Independent from all that of course a faulty door seal could be keeping his compressor running but you asked if the evaporator was iced up.
    To find that out one would first have to get at the evaporator and that can be quite a PITA if it IS iced up.

    Most fridges have a schematic stuck somewhere or can be found online.
    It would be fairly simple to find the colour coded wires for the heater and thermistor and check from the motherboard plugs for continuity.

    The thermistor in the kΩ range, the heater somewhere between roughly 100Ω-200Ω.
    Perhaps it was unclear in what was stated; no mention of a timer, merely timing. The software algorithms may have changed in the last 18 years?
    Fortunately, one was able to liaise with the engineers who developed the software as well as the relevant government regulator. Then again, what would I know?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVguy View Post
    Perhaps it was unclear in what was stated; no mention of a timer, merely timing. The software algorithms may have changed in the last 18 years?
    Fortunately, one was able to liaise with the engineers who developed the software as well as the relevant government regulator. Then again, what would I know?
    Timing has always been done by counting clock cycles, sometimes using a dedicated timer module with pre-scaler or just using loops with pause commands in the code itself, the latter having the disadvantage of hogging down the flow of the code for other inputs so provisions are made to interrupt the timing loops when conditions for those are met.
    For the sake of counting how long the compressor is running until the condition has been met to activate the defrost heater, inaccuracies caused by these interrupts are not relevant.

    I am amazed that you have not come across any of this including thermistor controlled defrosting in the last 20+ years you have been in tech support after liaising with software engineers.

    I am not a software engineer, only have the German equivalent of a Master's degree with thesis in electrical engineering and 40+ years experience in various fields, including coding countless MCUs, some with the comparable complexity of a fridge controller, although I am getting past my 'use by date'. Both my sons are way past me in regards to coding.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 26-12-21 at 12:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVguy View Post
    Forgive me for stating the obvious, but is the evaporator frozen up? Such a condition would equate to the described symptoms.
    The refrigerant charge is so small in an R600a unit that it would leak out in a minute if the sealed system was open to atmosphere.
    Gradual degradation in cooling performance for a single low temperature evaporator system points firstly to a clogged evaporator.
    A refrigerant blockage is most likely to occur in the capillary tube or filter/dryer. You can check whether there is a temperature drop across the dryer with a simple thermocouple probe; any more than 1K is unacceptable.
    Next step is to pierce the system and hopefully getting some useful gauge readings. Also R600a runs in vacuum on the suction line during normal operation.
    A lazy compressor with bad valve plates may be the cause? Fault codes are less than helpful in such circumstances.
    As it's one of F&P's 'ActiveSmart' fridges, it's got quite a number of sensors (plus it can read compressor motor current draw at the inverter board) ; if you read the fault code chart I linked to and have a peek at the exploded parts diagram, you can figure out what they've done, and how the controller is able to generate all the fault codes it does...like defrost heater failure, sensor failures, blablabla. Unless the control model itself is bung, it's able to point one in the general area/direction for fault diagnosis. When I speak of refrigerant leak, I'm talking internal to the compressor hermetic case...like blowby in the compressor itself =)

    Like you say, these fault codes can sometime be misleading/useless when there's some hardpart failure like that, and TBH I was hoping the OP had the first example of the controller readout as it seemed easier to read the codes from it, and not the 2nd example controller...which me thinks might require the right sequence of button presses to read the code(s), which of course are not covered on that sheet and no doubt live as details in the service manual I cannot find, cunningly hidden behind the words "You will require a Service Technician to assist"... ...but typically if you can't coax a code out of them, and everything else is ok and the evap(s) aren't iced up, you end up having to tap into the 'fridge circuit and get some performance readings.
    Last edited by wotnot; 26-12-21 at 03:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wotnot View Post
    "You will require a Service Technician to assist"...
    Always amusing. Glad I have moved on from domestic.
    Did really love the customer interactions and do miss the contact with the general public.
    it is a tough gig trying to diagnose appliances. Kudos wotnot for trying to assist a fellow member.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    ...only have the German equivalent of a Master's degree with thesis in electrical engineering and 40+ years experience in various fields, including coding countless MCUs, some with the comparable complexity of a fridge...
    Thank you.
    Last edited by TVguy; 27-12-21 at 01:23 AM. Reason: Grammar error
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