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Thread: Price breakthrough for LiFePO4 batteries

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    Default Price breakthrough for LiFePO4 batteries

    Just like I predicted.
    These put the cells in a Tesla Powerwall to shame.



    Just grabbed 4 and a few hours later the price dropped a further 10 bucks, crazy.
    So they are now 284,99 each for a 48V system.
    Being an Ebay member another 10% off until tomorrow.

    That's a mere $1025.96 for REAL USABLE 5.12kWh !!! The 4 will fit in metal tool chest, like I keep the others and I can still carry them around, about 45kg.
    With the Lead acid rubbish you would need to purchase 20kWh to get the same daily performance. What is that? 8-10 grand?

    The deal with LiFePO4, apart from being the safest battery in the world is that you can drain them 90% and get at least 2000 cycles but if you only charge them up to 90% and discharge all the way down to 10% state of charge(SoC) you can double that life cycle number.
    After that you have a battery that has 80% state of health(SoH) that still works fine for another 2000 odd cycles until it is 50% SoH, unlike Lead Acid which becomes almost instantly a massive toxic hazard to dispose of after it's 300 deep charge cycles or 3000+ shallow 20% cycles.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 14-12-21 at 10:24 PM.
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    I saw an article the other day talking about Aluminum Iron Phosphate (AlFePO4). Still in development but Aluminum is way cheaper than Lithium, so a matter of watch this space.
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    How do you charge them i.e. built in BMS ...

    EDIT. I mean if used other than in a vehicle ...
    Last edited by Guiseppe; 15-12-21 at 04:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guiseppe View Post
    How do you charge them i.e. built in BMS ...

    EDIT. I mean if used other than in a vehicle ...
    I only use them for off grid power.
    These batteries have a built in BMS that disconnects when it is over 14.5V per battery. That means if one goes over they all go offline in a 48V system.
    I never let it go that far as I set my solar charger to cut off above 54V (13.5V per battery) for the above mentioned 90% SoC.

    I monitor the individual battery voltages and if one would look like it would be out of balance I can top it up individually, but I have not need to do that with these 12V batteries. LiFePO4 are much more stable that the standard Li-Ion chemistries.
    Just always need to purchase the full 48V string at the same time.
    I have used LiFePO4 pouch cells in the past and there are sometimes out of whack despite individual cell BMS. I suspect they where not new.
    I am taking that box out of service and keep only for backup when I get these new ones.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 15-12-21 at 04:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Fester View Post
    I only use them for off grid power.

    I never let it go that far as I set my solar charger to cut off above 54V (13.5V per battery) for the above mentioned 90% SoC.
    Every now and again I think about a battery back-up system but the cost still seems to outweigh the return. Our electricity bill is mostly supply charge!!

    We have a solar setup already which, I understand, can have a battery back-up but it is a high voltage type and hence expensive.

    I assume another alternative is to have a separate solar charger, battery bank and inverter. Again dollars.

    A further issue is finding an installer. The guy that did our install is a rude prick and we want nothing further to do with him.

    Another issue is "The Standards". Between the time I saw a solar install and liked the neatness of it - it had battery back-up - and the time of our install "The Standards" had changed resulting in an install that I would be ashamed if it was in a cow shed. When I told the guy exactly what I thought of it his comment was, "It is only a laundry."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guiseppe View Post
    Every now and again I think about a battery back-up system but the cost still seems to outweigh the return. Our electricity bill is mostly supply charge!!

    We have a solar setup already which, I understand, can have a battery back-up but it is a high voltage type and hence expensive.

    I assume another alternative is to have a separate solar charger, battery bank and inverter. Again dollars.

    A further issue is finding an installer. The guy that did our install is a rude prick and we want nothing further to do with him.

    Another issue is "The Standards". Between the time I saw a solar install and liked the neatness of it - it had battery back-up - and the time of our install "The Standards" had changed resulting in an install that I would be ashamed if it was in a cow shed. When I told the guy exactly what I thought of it his comment was, "It is only a laundry."
    I have both grid tied and a separate off-grid system.
    I build and install everything myself so cost is not much of factor.
    The looks, well for me it is function over form

    I think it will still take a while for installers to understand and catch onto these very safe LiFePO4 batteries unfortunately.
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    How long would 5.12 wh last you?
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    How long would 5.12 wh last you?
    Im running 9.6KW in AGM in a 24v ( 2 x 12v series @ 200Ah x 2 banks parallel) config and depending on the day (cloud cover) I can get a few days out of them when running a couple of computers, Ham radio equipment etc.

    AGM are NOT LiFePO4 but then AGM are WAY cheaper.
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    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    How long would 5.12 wh last you?
    I assume you mean 5.12 kWh

    That depends on what you need it for.
    It gives me over 25 km of EV driving mixed highway/town.
    As I also get a reasonable amount of energy directly from the PV panels this alone would guaranties a full charge for 50km range when it is somewhat cloudy or I am not always home, which exceeds my daily need.
    As said this is an upgrade for an existing system. I can fully charge my PHEV in the dark.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 17-12-21 at 11:25 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by porkop View Post

    AGM are NOT LiFePO4 but then AGM are WAY cheaper.

    I strongly disagree, please read carefully my OP.

    You need about four AGM batteries for each LiFePO4 based on the depth of discharge rule unless you want them stuffed after only one year.
    With the recent price drop the actual battery cost is about the same unless you are looking at dodgy ones.
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