Boeing 737-800 nosedive crash

[Uncle Fester]

Very unusual to happen while cruising like that out of no where:



My condolences to all who lost their loved ones.

While one might initially think a problem with the horizontal stabiliser, a locked rudder can cause the same effect, which came straight to my mind, almost screaming:

Boeing has been plagued with this on the 737 before when a hydraulic power control unit reversed the pilot's input.


While the design flaw has been allegedly addressed, a fault with these PCUs both for Rudder or Horizontal stabiliser can never be ruled out.
However I wonder if the autopilot would be able detect the incorrect response and 'try out' a reversal, programmed in it's software based on past history ?

[mandc]

Flew in and out of Kunming in a China Eastern 737 in 2019. Certainly looks like a mechanical issue.

I'm a bit wary of Boeing since I saw that doco on Netflix regarding the 737 Max. Downfall: The Case Against Boeing

They are not the company they once were......

[lsemmens]

It will be interesting to see what black box has to say.

[Al Bundy]

It will be interesting to see what black box has to say.

If it survived, the plane looked like a missile going in my money is on the pilot deliberately crashing

[mtv]

One report I saw said the plane dropped rapidly from 30,000ft then leveled off with a slight rise in altitude at 8,000ft then nosedived again.

There is no reported mayday or other communication transmission.

Whatever happened, it was vey sudden.

[VroomVroom]

with all the safety systems in place you would think the plane itself wouldnt allow an intentional nose dive ? I would guess its a horizontal stabiliser failure

[Uncle Fester]

with all the safety systems in place you would think the plane itself wouldnt allow an intentional nose dive ? I would guess its a horizontal stabiliser failure

Yes indeed.
The whole stabiliser(actually 2) can be controlled with an electric motor(used by the auto pilot and trim) and also purely manually with cables using the horizontal stabiliser trim wheel.
Additionally the stabiliser has two hydraulic elevators for normal flight input through the column.

That is plenty of backup for recovery if one system fails.

The reverse rudder issue would seem more likely... and pilot suicide.

[enf]

.......................

The reverse rudder issue would seem more likely... and pilot suicide.

Radio failure? Not likely...I'll stick with the latter.

[Uncle Fester]

Radio failure? Not likely...I'll stick with the latter.

Radio failure? ...am I missing something

The reverse rudder issue I mentioned in the OP eventually leads to a nose dive, at that hight the plane could go supersonic and the whole tail structure could break off in a locked rudder position.

[enf]

Radio failure? ...am I missing something

.....................

Yes you are, but maybe it's my poor choice of words. No emergency calls, or any other communication which would automatically be a part any commercial pilot response. To me this has the distinct whiff of suicide.

[enf]

No mayday type call is the thing for me. Dropping, stablising, then diving is almost as if they (or he) wanted to crash at a particular place. That missile like dive just seems too deliberate....

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

No mayday type call is the thing for me. Dropping, stablising, then diving is almost as if they (or he) wanted to crash at a particular place. That missile like dive just seems too deliberate....

There is no possibly way that a mayday is going to help the flight crew in that situation. They are likely very busy sorting out conflicting instruments and balky controls. The plane had a mishap. Either the control surfaces misbehaved or the instruments confused the crew (iced up pilot tubes) and they stalled the plane or went overspeed on the airframe. Dropping and stabilizing , diving sounds like the flight crew had almost saved the plane but ran out of options.

Over on pprune site, real pilots are discussing the many mechanical failures that could have precipitated this.

No mention of intentional acts on that site.

Aircraft are very complex beasts and sometimes all of the complex and redundant systems will grab you and kill you. Often by lulling the flight crew into complacency and fostering unwarranted trust in the machine.

Think about that when you buy a self driving coffin.

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[enf]

[QUOTE=RFI-EMI-GUY;855915...................................

Think about that when you buy a self driving coffin.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't buy a self driving coffin...and I wouldn't expect a bunch of pilots to give a whole lot of their time to the fact that one of their bretheren could have been a nutjob either.

Just wait and see...time will almost certainly reveal all that can be known.

[Johnno]

There's nothing left of the plane, the black box will interesting if it's found.

[DaveBern]

Its possible it could have. Definitely be interesting to see the results of what data they find and if a old issue has once again returned.

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[enf]

I doubt they'll find them. They aren't indestructible, and that crash was about as forceful and violent as you can get....

Then, of course, you've got to be prepared to actually believe what the Chinese tell you.

[DaveBern]

True. They could save face and blame the pilot and co pilot right off the bat.

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[lsemmens]

From the vision it looks deliberate to me. Seems strange that a terrorist would target a Chinese plane, though, given that China seems to side with more terrorist states than not. The levelling out could be that someone managed to gain control over the terrorist (for want of a better name) for a moment before he managed to overpower said sane person. Another argument against terrorism though is, that surely they'd have targeted a more heavily populated area to cause as much mayhem as possible. My money's on a pilot who was knocked back by the good looking hostess so decided to end it all.

[DaveBern]

Well I recall in soul plane....

Unfortunately pilot error, terrorism, or faulty avionics many died and many lives have been changed today. Sad.

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[B52]

Looking at the video, more like the Germanwings scenario or known rudder issue < >