Russia/Ukraine War

[wotnot]

Was told when doing history at high school, no war is fought over religion, but in the name of religion. Every war is fought over wealth
Just recently found out that Hitler invaded Poland due to the Reichstag had only one months money left in the kitty and he had to get some quickly or they were bank rupt
Ukraine is very rich in resources and would add to Russia's wealth (and to the West's as well)

Yeah, with this (ongoing,100s of years now) fracas in that location, religion has never had anything to do with the motivations for same, and money/wealth became a synonym for God for capitalist regimes since ancient times.

If the next WW involves a stoush with CN, it'll be the a-religious versus the religious, both battling over the same God -- wealth.

[lsemmens]

I agree with allover there. There are many things done "In the name of God, or, a god" that said being has NO part in! Some religions (one in particular) do foment war (9/11, anyone)

[Uncle Fester]

Was told when doing history at high school, no war is fought over religion, but in the name of religion. Every war is fought over wealth
Just recently found out that Hitler invaded Poland due to the Reichstag had only one months money left in the kitty and he had to get some quickly or they were bank rupt
Ukraine is very rich in resources and would add to Russia's wealth (and to the West's as well)

That is far from the truth !

When Hitler took over Germany in 1933, their state Coffers were indeed empty but in the six years that followed until the first invasion he had amassed significant wealth, both privately(already alone from the sales of "Mein Kampf") and for the government and rearmament. You might want to read about his MEFO bills:
So together with government bonds they had over RM 30Billion old days money(what's that? ...a Trillion today?), plenty to START the war and then after they took over countries, they plundered to sustain the war.
Of course confiscating property of the wealthy Jews also contributed to financing the war.

No, Hitler invaded Poland because he and the Soviet Union agreed to do so and they made an agreement that decided which parts of Poland they will annex:


Now Putin is doing similar, initially on his own. We can only hope China will NOT make a similar agreement with Russia to change the world order.

As for religions, I still remember the words of Republican US President Bush when he decided to invade Iraq "In the name of God"
Putin is basically saying the same as he presents himself highly religious.
...yet in the sixth commandment it says: Thou shalt not kill !
Off course religions are twisted to 'justify' all these invasions and killings.
Religions are the worst form of hypocrisy and propaganda.

[lsemmens]

You are incorrect there Fester, Religions are not the worst form of hypocrisy some of their followers are! Propaganda, OTOH.....

[allover]

[CONAXLE]

I was thinking all this mass shootings in America,wouldn't be a good idea if the guy that did the shootings sent to Ukraine.Save them tax payer for keeping them in jail and probably help Ukraine...just saying..

[Ah-Those-Old-Days!]

'Putin' is being lied to, by his own Military 'Commanders'. He/they thought it would be a "Walk In The Park" initially...
So much of his military infrastructure has been totally destroyed, and their inept 'commanders' are too inexperienced,
and afraid, to report back. Their 'soldiers' are generally drunk, and admit they have NO personal commitment!!!
NATO, and the rest of the civilized World today, will rule, and push this CaveMan back into the dark ages........

[wotnot]

Remember Chernobyl?.....

[Ah-Those-Old-Days!]

I find it strange?, (or maybe not!??), that the reports of this 'attempted' Russian slaughter of Ukraine on general TV News these days, has diminished
greatly, to the point of being almost non-existent!! I hope it's NOT simply due to being 'old' news now, not worthy of current Media 'Brownie' Points!!

I HAVE however, found myself viewing a lot of YouTube posts by various global media, of recent, showing countless guided missile/bomb attacks on numerous
Russian Tank-Lines & Hideouts etc etc, which have severely depleted a lot of Russian attempts & intrusions!! And I find that comforting to watch!!!

Mind you, I never was 'Anti-Russian' as such, (over the last decades when the 'World' seemed to 'get along'), and my brother in Darwin is married to a Russian
migrant, and she is a wonderful person! I guess I'm saying that we "Don't throw out the baby with the bath water"!!! But 'Putin' surely has to go!....

P.S...... Have a look at the YouTube posts by..... "Bald and Bankrupt", for a real education about life/people within Russia/Ukraine etc etc.
He's English, but speaks perfect Russian, and has much knowledge/interest in all those regions!! Certainly worthy of praise!!

[lsemmens]

The individuals of a country must never be judged by their "leadership". With all the stuff in the news about China you'd think that all Chinese are out to steal your technology or country, and convert you to Communism. I have found that the average Chinaman in China is not unlike you or I. In fact, quite friendly and welcoming, despite the fact that we could not understand one another. I dare say the average Russian is much the same.

[Ah-Those-Old-Days!]

In an 'Addendum' to what I've said above, and 'implied' before.... I 'hate' it when people describe this as a 'War'!! NOT that the word 'War' gives it some regal
standing, if there ever WAS one!... This WAS/IS an Invasion/Slaughter that goes beyond such dictatorship words like 'War'... sigh...

I'm not saying they would or should, but what if Australia 'Decided' in their wisdom to say take over "New Zealand"??? No unilateral talks about Trade Agreements
or resources, and what they could do for each other... but a massive immediate take over attempt with general aerial bombing, and thousands of public lives lost
of men, women & children.... how would the REST of 'Australia' feel??? and what would happen as a result???? Well, what's the FU#$ING difference!!?? None!!

[enf]

In an 'Addendum' to what I've said above, and 'implied' before.... I 'hate' it when people describe this as a 'War'!! NOT that the word 'War' gives it some regal
standing, if there ever WAS one!... This WAS/IS an Invasion/Slaughter that goes beyond such dictatorship words like 'War'... sigh...

I'm not saying they would or should, but what if Australia 'Decided' in their wisdom to say take over "New Zealand"??? No unilateral talks about Trade Agreements
or resources, and what they could do for each other... but a massive immediate take over attempt with general aerial bombing, and thousands of public lives lost
of men, women & children.... how would the REST of 'Australia' feel??? and what would happen as a result???? Well, what's the FU#$ING difference!!?? None!!

To the people on the ground it IS a war. They don't see any difference.

Why on earth would we want to invade New Zealand? They don't have anything worth taking (unless you count farting cows and sheep, which it seems that they are about to tax FFS).....and we don't have anything to take it WITH anyway. And since they've bankrupted themselves due to covid fear and have subsequently signed up to belt and road with China to bail themselves out, we'd probably end up losing as well.

[lsemmens]

In the Ukraine is is WAR. Yes Russia invaded, but that's how WARS start. Someone wants something that they don't have. The only reason that the situation in the Ukraine has not escalated further is because of the NATO alliance. As far as invading NZ is concerned, why bother? [wry grin] There are more Kiwis here than over there anyway. It seems like they have already invaded us! [/wry grin]

[Uncle Fester]

To the people on the ground it IS a war. They don't see any difference.

Why on earth would we want to invade New Zealand? They don't have anything worth taking (unless you count farting cows and sheep, which it seems that they are about to tax FFS).....and we don't have anything to take it WITH anyway. And since they've bankrupted themselves due to covid fear and have subsequently signed up to belt and road with China to bail themselves out, we'd probably end up losing as well.

LOL, I think it is safe to say we are owned even more by China including our critical energy provisions and an important strategic port in NT that ScoMo kindly handed over to them.
I guess NZ has some catching up to do.

I don't think Ah-Those-Old-Days was implying that we should take over NZ for any benefit, just comparing the stupidity and unjust-fullness of such an invasion with what is happening in Ukraine.

Putin is also clearly avoiding the word 'War' and right now Xi is laying down the framework for "armed force operations that are not at war" using a similar rhetoric:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-14/xi-jinping-expands-china-military-influence-abroad/101152154

As for no reporting about Ukraine on TV anymore, I suggest watching World News on SBS 18:30.

[enf]

LOL, I think it is safe to say we are owned even more by China including our critical energy provisions and an important strategic port in NT that ScoMo kindly handed over to them.
I guess NZ has some catching up to do.

I don't think Ah-Those-Old-Days was implying that we should take over NZ for any benefit, just comparing the stupidity and unjust-fullness of such an invasion with what is happening in Ukraine.

Putin is also clearly avoiding the word 'War' and right now Xi is laying down the framework for "armed force operations that are not at war" using a similar rhetoric:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-14/xi-jinping-expands-china-military-influence-abroad/101152154

As for no reporting about Ukraine on TV anymore, I suggest watching World News on SBS 18:30.

Aaaaah no...not correct.

NZ actually signed up to belt and road as they were broke. Quite a difference. Victoria (ALP) had also done the same thing on its own until the Coalition AND the ALP got together federally to veto it as they could both see that it was just a debt trap. IIRC, Barnett (Lib) in WA did something similar.

Oh..ScoMo handed NOTHING to China, that was the NT government.

The WA governemnt have dealt the Oakajee project to China, another port.

Keswick Island off McKay by the Queensland government for 99 years is another one.

They all have their fingers in the pie, and your mindless attempts to put everything on the Coalition, and ScoMo in particular, make your previous statements that some of us are "so black and white" completely laughable.

Put Oakajee, Darwin, Daru (Papua) and Keswick in play, and we look a little potentially boxed in to me. Especially with the Solomons selling out....

But whatever...keep up the hate hey?

[Johnno]

The Russian war plan is bizarre ...

WHY bomb the crap out of the Cities, Ports & Infrastructure and create complete wasteland ??. I mean 'WASTELAND'

If the invasion ends tomorrow with Russia taking the Donbas region & southern ports, It would cost the Russian government mega trillions to rebuild what they have destroyed with their primitive artillery.

Who outside of Russia will finance that ? No one in the west...Maybe, precision bombing isn't their thing? /strange

[wotnot]

Who outside of Russia will finance that ?

China =)

[enf]

........................ No one in the west...Maybe, precision bombing isn't their thing? /strange

Nobody...Russia will finance it through oil, coal and gas sales to Western Europe which is still going on....despite all the talkietalkie....

China =)

Thats funny........

[Johnno]

At the moment, yes correct.. That will eventually stop thou'. Europe have finally realized they need change.
Rich resource countries are lining up to sell Europe the resources they need.. Russia have stuffed up.
Unfortunately it's going to take alot more than just a few billion to rebuild just those ports they destroyed..
By the time you add corruption from sales of resources.. Maybe a tugboat and jetty will be built..

[enf]

At the moment, yes correct.. That will eventually stop thou'. Europe have finally realized they need change.
Rich resource countries are lining up to sell Europe the resources they need.. Russia have stuffed up.
Unfortunately it's going to take alot more than just a few billion to rebuild just those ports they destroyed..
By the time you add corruption from sales of resources.. Maybe a tugboat and jetty will be built..

Not sure about that Johnno. If the European citizenry start screaming for power in winter because they don't want to freeze to death, they'll rationalise it and cave...they always do.

And who says he wants to rebuild the place anyway? Destruction, suppression, and subjugation is the goal if he is just shoring up his power base at home by appearing strong...although his military have been shown up as rather embarrassing.