Music Notes!! A pretty Global language!!

[Al Bundy]

Actually the "laws" of physics have not changed. Just our understanding of them. Gravity is still a myth, the Earth still sucks!

Yes mate, although I didn't explain myself very well, that was actually what I was trying to say, I will even try to explain what I meant even further, some "Laws of Physics" have been known for hundreds of years, some of that which was hypothesised 100 years ago is still the same today but at the same time a lot has changed, and not just over 100 years but over hundreds of years, and obviously as new discoveries are made some will continue to change, but the fact that "we know" that the "Laws of Physics are universal" has never been proven, and realistically can never be proven, we can hypothesise but until we have been everywhere in the Universe and proved they are universal it is only that, hypothetical.

Come on Al. I've seen Star Trek. The UNIVERSE speaks English. The females of almost ANY species cover up their tits too. Therefore there must be something to that...hmmmm...

Don't overthink it....

LOL, not overthinking it mate, just trying to state the obvious maybe not very well in this case, but the Looney knew what I meant , but as we can all see Fester is the all seeing all knowing Oz, I would just like to go for a ride in his FTL Ship to see him prove all that he purports to be true...

Gonna be a nasty shock if the females we meet all have 10" dicks...

[Uncle Fester]

Actually the "laws" of physics have not changed. Just our understanding of them. Gravity is still a myth, the Earth still sucks!

That is correct and the deeper we can see into the Universe the more evidence we find that they do not change which confirms general consensus that physics as we know it is universal.
We do NOT suddenly see objects moving faster than light or actions WITHOUT reactions.

There are extreme situations that we have not grasped yet, like shortly after the beginning of the Universe, extreme gravitation and Dark Matter and limits to the individual models
but there is nothing loony about perceiving that the laws of Physics on planets like around Proxima Centuari are the same as on Earth.
Whatever EVOLUTION does to life forms there is all about adapting best to that local environment and a so called Goldilocks planet(assuming it has atmosphere and water) is likely to produce critters than can swim, walk, fly, hear, see and make noise even if they do find a more efficient way to procreate.

[Ah-Those-Old-Days!]

What a BOB. If they can cross the f*cking galaxy, I'm sure that English would be within their grasp.

Then we can get them into Clapton and real music before the modern rap bred dickheads get a look in.

(Sorry...jugs still boiling..)

Dear 'enf'... My brain does flips when I read some of your replies?? such that I just don't understand mate.
This post did not start as a confluence of like-minded people contemplating proof of extraterrestrials, but simply stating
as a mere 'side-note' that equally 'intelligent' beings May or may not, include something like 'Music' in their wealth of
understanding/knowledge, as WE mere Earthlings seem to hold it relative/pertain-able to Intelligence, as we know/think it.

'Granted', 'RAP' is not something that I would consider being 'Music', by any stretch of the imagination. However, there are
certain 'Musical Progressions' that MOST Humans would agree can be/are 'pleasing to the Ear. I FULLY understand that some
of these, are not 'Party-Music', but should be taken as they are intended... The BEST example that I can give here, is this
piece that is referred to simply as the "Humming Chorus". It is written by...

Giacomo Puccini: "Coro a bocca chiusa" (Humming Chorus) from Madame Butterfly

Some songs/tunes need nothing else, to get the message across..
What myself & uncle Fester were getting across, was the sentiment, with/without the 'notes'...
And the "Sorry, Jugs still boiling" was totally lost on me????? Why are you so angry??????

[Ah-Those-Old-Days!]

To re-iterate my very first sentiment here... I have lost a lot of my abilities now, but revel in the memories of the people
I used to play with, and the music we made. And I loved the 'families' that would come to our nights, and the times that I
would give instruments to certain kids, not to judge them, but to let them feel like they are/were participating!!!
We loved that they were 'tomorrows' replacements of us!!

[enf]

Dear 'enf'... My brain does flips when I read some of your replies?? such that I just don't understand mate.
This post did not start as a confluence of like-minded people contemplating proof of extraterrestrials, but simply stating
as a mere 'side-note' that equally 'intelligent' beings May or may not, include something like 'Music' in their wealth of
understanding/knowledge, as WE mere Earthlings seem to hold it relative/pertain-able to Intelligence, as we know/think it.

'Granted', 'RAP' is not something that I would consider being 'Music', by any stretch of the imagination. However, there are
certain 'Musical Progressions' that MOST Humans would agree can be/are 'pleasing to the Ear. I FULLY understand that some
of these, are not 'Party-Music', but should be taken as they are intended... The BEST example that I can give here, is this
piece that is referred to simply as the "Humming Chorus". It is written by...

Giacomo Puccini: "Coro a bocca chiusa" (Humming Chorus) from Madame Butterfly

Some songs/tunes need nothing else, to get the message across..
What myself & uncle Fester were getting across, was the sentiment, with/without the 'notes'...
And the "Sorry, Jugs still boiling" was totally lost on me????? Why are you so angry??????

WOW...ummmm....now THATS what I would term "overthinking".

Look......to me, music is an individual and aquired taste. You like it or you don't. I don't play music, I can't read music, and I have no desire to. I played a little blues harmonica when I was young, but when I left Freo in the early 70's I left the harps behind. My younger brother took them up and he now DOES play music and has travelled the world attending festivals and has played at various concerts with oodles of local groups.

The creation of all kinds of music and the artistic ability and skill of the relevant artists to produce it impresses me no end, but I still regard most of it as sh!t that I wouldn't listen to given a choice. My musical tastes are ingrained in the blues and rock scene from the late 60s to the late 80s. Thats just what I like and I make no apologies for that at all.

The oft used assumtion that music is some kind of universal language seems a stretch to me. It may be for some humans, but I would argue that extraterrestrials (if they even exist) may not get it at all. What if first contact is with a species that appreciates silence and regards sound as an egregious insult? All that fancy Close Encounters stuff may just be like pushing Putins buttons.

As for the jug boiled statement, I was just alluding to the fact that I hadn't even had a morning coffee yet and was a tad grumpy. Now, to the members of the species that I am familiar with THAT is a universal language.

Oh, I seldom get angry about much at all, but my level of pissedoffness certainly varies....

[Al Bundy]

...The oft used assumtion that music is some kind of universal language seems a stretch to me. It may be for some humans, but I would argue that extraterrestrials (if they even exist) may not get it at all. What if first contact is with a species that appreciates silence and regards sound as an egregious insult?....

Uh oh, now you have pushed nomeat's sorry Fester's buttons hes gonna come gunning for you now.... or maybe its just me he has the hard on for ???

[lsemmens]

Look at the thread title, Music Notes!! A pretty Global language!! There was no mention of the Universe in it. We have all (including the OP) diverted from the topic. Of course we can't speak for the rest of the universe, but, on this planet, it appears to be. Regardless of if you appreciate it or not. If anything White noise would appear to be a universal language. Pedant? Moi? Kettle needs to go and boil itself now.

[Al Bundy]

Look at the thread title, Music Notes!! A pretty Global language!! There was no mention of the Universe in it. We have all (including the OP) diverted from the topic. Of course we can't speak for the rest of the universe, but, on this planet, it appears to be. Regardless of if you appreciate it or not. If anything White noise would appear to be a universal language. Pedant? Moi? Kettle needs to go and boil itself now.

Geez, I hate saying this to you Looney but fair point.

[Uncle Fester]

My musical tastes are ingrained in the blues and rock scene from the late 60s to the late 80s. Thats just what I like and I make no apologies for that at all.

Ditto, although I go a bit further back as Beethoven was the creator of hard rock, even metal. Maybe because he was rather deaf at later age and he felt the vibrations better when he hit hard on the keys.

Blues is about the only thing I can still play reasonably well, no matter on what instrument, it is something that you don't need to practice or focus on, it just flows out of you, although best after a few beers.

Looks like Al Bundy seems to have lost the plot. Good luck to you mate.

[Al Bundy]

...Looks like Al Bundy seems to have lost the plot....

Funny, I was going to say the same thing about you, but cant be bothered wasting my time...

[wotnot]

Look at the thread title, Music Notes!! A pretty Global language!! There was no mention of the Universe in it. We have all (including the OP) diverted from the topic. Of course we can't speak for the rest of the universe, but, on this planet, it appears to be. Regardless of if you appreciate it or not. If anything White noise would appear to be a universal language. Pedant? Moi? Kettle needs to go and boil itself now.

The bugler's call, the musical note(s) of sirens, the aesthetic chimes & gongs in newer vehicles...the song of 4 Merlins on a Lancaster bomber ... the singing of the aussie Magpie... the whistling of wind in the rigging....walking down to St Andrews when I lived in Sydney CBD to sit and listen to the pealing of the bells....(and a scary one)....the Windows sound (originally by Brian Eno =)

I can think of more, it largely depends on how one connotes 'music' and whether you view it as art or consider it a/the science of sound ~ I was taught piano when young, sang Alto in the school choir, and did 5 years of music theory at HS (as a 'spare' subject), and in those classes we were taught that most ppl only associate 'music' in the context of a (anthropomorphic, culturally based, 'domesticated') subset of the prime noun...sound. That... is surely reflected in this thread B) Insert 'personal taste' as well here.

The universe possibly gets roped in anyway, if you're into radio astronomy and consider the cacophony of the stars or the pulsing of a Quasar as being music to your ears...and you need include pink & white noise here. Although I can play piano, I hardly ever do because I just sound like another part-time piano player ; give me a keyboard and/or midi controller and a computer based DAW, and it/I sound like anything but that....given time. I listen to The Strangler's Black&White album, with the same interest I listen to Nils Frahm's All Melody album....and my favourite rendition of Stairway To Heaven, is that by Leonard Teale on Andrew Denton's 'The Money or the Gun' on late 80's teevee (also on YT 8)

The clangour of hammers at the foundry, or the blackie at work, the clicky-clack of train wheels on the tracks....instead of using my hands to play piano, I can use them to build an engine and the mechanical symphony I hear when it starts and runs, is music to my ears...

'Music' is an extremely subjective thing, and tends not to be globally aligned due to sound ethnography. The possible exception to that, may be African drum beats & rhythms, which tend to appeal to many ppl from many ethic backgrounds, and some posit this being a 'genetic memory' that heralds back to the beginnings of mankind. On top of this, we don't all hear sound in the same way....wrt topic, one might play the most 'beautiful' piece of music one has ever heard to someone else, and that someone else might wrinkle their face & cover their ears because it's the worst music they've ever heard. If I disrespect topic and example this effect in the domain of sound --- the sound of chalk/fingernails scraping on a blackboard, the sound of polystyrene foam rubbing and squeaking against itself/something --- to many ppl these sounds will (colloquially) 'curdle one's blood' ....and yet to others these same sounds don't effect them at all ; it's just another noise/sound to them (and said sound does have a frequency component, more than 1 and forms a complex note).

...I wonder if I can sample the musical chimes that come out of our washing machine, and turn that into a 'song'?...

electronic.ambient.cut-up.experimental.pop.jungle

[enf]

The bugler's call, the musical note(s) of sirens, the aesthetic chimes & gongs in newer vehicles...the song of 4 Merlins on a Lancaster bomber ... the singing of the aussie Magpie... the whistling of wind in the rigging....walking down to St Andrews when I lived in Sydney CBD to sit and listen to the pealing of the bells....(and a scary one)....the Windows sound (originally by Brian Eno =)

I can think of more, it largely depends on how one connotes 'music' and whether you view it as art or consider it a/the science of sound ~ I was taught piano when young, sang Alto in the school choir, and did 5 years of music theory at HS (as a 'spare' subject), and in those classes we were taught that most ppl only associate 'music' in the context of a (anthropomorphic, culturally based, 'domesticated') subset of the prime noun...sound. That... is surely reflected in this thread B) Insert 'personal taste' as well here.

The universe possibly gets roped in anyway, if you're into radio astronomy and consider the cacophony of the stars or the pulsing of a Quasar as being music to your ears...and you need include pink & white noise here. Although I can play piano, I hardly ever do because I just sound like another part-time piano player ; give me a keyboard and/or midi controller and a computer based DAW, and it/I sound like anything but that....given time. I listen to The Strangler's Black&White album, with the same interest I listen to Nils Frahm's All Melody album....and my favourite rendition of Stairway To Heaven, is that by Leonard Teale on Andrew Denton's 'The Money or the Gun' on late 80's teevee (also on YT 8)

The clangour of hammers at the foundry, or the blackie at work, the clicky-clack of train wheels on the tracks....instead of using my hands to play piano, I can use them to build an engine and the mechanical symphony I hear when it starts and runs, is music to my ears...

'Music' is an extremely subjective thing, and tends not to be globally aligned due to sound ethnography. The possible exception to that, may be African drum beats & rhythms, which tend to appeal to many ppl from many ethic backgrounds, and some posit this being a 'genetic memory' that heralds back to the beginnings of mankind. On top of this, we don't all heard sound in the same way....wrt topic, one might play the most 'beautiful' piece of music one has ever heard to someone else, and that someone else might wrinkle their face & cover their ears because it's the worst music they've ever heard. If I disrespect topic and example this effect in the domain of sound --- the sound of chalk/fingernails scraping on a blackboard, the sound of polystyrene foam rubbing and squeaking against itself/something --- to many ppl these sounds will (colloquially) 'curdle one's blood' ....and yet to others these same sounds don't effect them at all ; it's just another noise/sound to them (and said sound does have a frequency component, more than 1 and forms a complex note).

...I wonder if I can sample the musical chimes that come out of our washing machine, and turn that into a 'song'?...

electronic.ambient.cut-up.experimental.pop.jungle

Or, in other words...you like what you like and you don't what you don't.

Regardless of what instruments you use....

[wotnot]

Or, in other words...you like what you like and you don't what you don't.

Regardless of what instruments you use....

LOL...an excellent example of the art 8^)

[freakee1]

the Earth still sucks!

and don't forget - it is flat too


f

[Ah-Those-Old-Days!]

The bugler's call, the musical note(s) of sirens, the aesthetic chimes & gongs in newer vehicles...the song of 4 Merlins on a Lancaster bomber ... the singing of the aussie Magpie... the whistling of wind in the rigging....walking down to St Andrews when I lived in Sydney CBD to sit and listen to the pealing of the bells....(and a scary one)....the Windows sound (originally by Brian Eno =)

I can think of more, it largely depends on how one connotes 'music' and whether you view it as art or consider it a/the science of sound ~ I was taught piano when young, sang Alto in the school choir, and did 5 years of music theory at HS (as a 'spare' subject), and in those classes we were taught that most ppl only associate 'music' in the context of a (anthropomorphic, culturally based, 'domesticated') subset of the prime noun...sound. That... is surely reflected in this thread B) Insert 'personal taste' as well here.

The universe possibly gets roped in anyway, if you're into radio astronomy and consider the cacophony of the stars or the pulsing of a Quasar as being music to your ears...and you need include pink & white noise here. Although I can play piano, I hardly ever do because I just sound like another part-time piano player ; give me a keyboard and/or midi controller and a computer based DAW, and it/I sound like anything but that....given time. I listen to The Strangler's Black&White album, with the same interest I listen to Nils Frahm's All Melody album....and my favourite rendition of Stairway To Heaven, is that by Leonard Teale on Andrew Denton's 'The Money or the Gun' on late 80's teevee (also on YT 8)

The clangour of hammers at the foundry, or the blackie at work, the clicky-clack of train wheels on the tracks....instead of using my hands to play piano, I can use them to build an engine and the mechanical symphony I hear when it starts and runs, is music to my ears...

'Music' is an extremely subjective thing, and tends not to be globally aligned due to sound ethnography. The possible exception to that, may be African drum beats & rhythms, which tend to appeal to many ppl from many ethic backgrounds, and some posit this being a 'genetic memory' that heralds back to the beginnings of mankind. On top of this, we don't all heard sound in the same way....wrt topic, one might play the most 'beautiful' piece of music one has ever heard to someone else, and that someone else might wrinkle their face & cover their ears because it's the worst music they've ever heard. If I disrespect topic and example this effect in the domain of sound --- the sound of chalk/fingernails scraping on a blackboard, the sound of polystyrene foam rubbing and squeaking against itself/something --- to many ppl these sounds will (colloquially) 'curdle one's blood' ....and yet to others these same sounds don't effect them at all ; it's just another noise/sound to them (and said sound does have a frequency component, more than 1 and forms a complex note).

...I wonder if I can sample the musical chimes that come out of our washing machine, and turn that into a 'song'?...

electronic.ambient.cut-up.experimental.pop.jungle

[OP here...] Firstly, may I apologize to 'enf'. I might have had too many Coffees (no, Wines!) when I thought you were angry!
I do understand how subjective Music can be though. And I truly thank everyone else for their comments here too !!

To 'wotnot' above here, that was one of the most profound & well-worded things I have read in a long time!! And you should be proud
to be able to think/articulate like that! Respect!!!

To 'lsemmens', when you stated... "Can you imagine what the Aliens would make of us considering the cr*p that is broadcast on
the airwaves every second of the the day. "Ways of our Wives", "As the stomach turns", "Doctor Phil", and so on...."
Firstly, I like the word-changes there!! That's funny! However, on a serious note... Apparently the 1st TV true broadcast was of Hitler,
at the opening of the Olympics back in his day! So if Aliens were tuned in, that's the 1st real broadcast from Earth. Showing Hitler!!

Just to try & put some more meaning to my initial post... When I spoke about Music being a 'Universal Language'...
I wasn't talking about different peoples 'tastes' etc., nor that most people understand 'music', but simply that those of us who DO, seem
to be able to 'communicate' in that regard, without actually having to speak 'words'. No matter from what Country, or speaking language,
it just seems to Flow from us, when playing together, in a way that I find quite humbling, peaceful & warming.

[trash]

What a BOB. If they can cross the f*cking galaxy, I'm sure that English would be within their grasp.

If they can cross the galaxy, any you have to say is pointless.

So traveling aliens is a but unrealistic. If we're just talking SETI/METI. Think of it like this. Swing the dish around and find a transponder with a foreign language you know nothing about and learn that language from just watching that channel. It's going to take you some time to get the hang of it.


Of course if you're an invading alien force and you're doing some recon by watching Earth's TV signals, you're going to be making a hard decision about your next move. Are these creatures so stupid we could just take their planet OR are they so stupid that invading might be dangerous because there is no telling what they might be capable of when threatened.

[Uncle Fester]

The bugler's call, the musical note(s) of sirens, the aesthetic chimes & gongs in newer vehicles...the song of 4 Merlins on a Lancaster bomber ... the singing of the aussie Magpie... the whistling of wind in the rigging....walking down to St Andrews when I lived in Sydney CBD to sit and listen to the pealing of the bells....(and a scary one)....the Windows sound (originally by Brian Eno =)

I can think of more, it largely depends on how one connotes 'music' and whether you view it as art or consider it a/the science of sound ~ I was taught piano when young, sang Alto in the school choir, and did 5 years of music theory at HS (as a 'spare' subject), and in those classes we were taught that most ppl only associate 'music' in the context of a (anthropomorphic, culturally based, 'domesticated') subset of the prime noun...sound. That... is surely reflected in this thread B) Insert 'personal taste' as well here.

The universe possibly gets roped in anyway, if you're into radio astronomy and consider the cacophony of the stars or the pulsing of a Quasar as being music to your ears...and you need include pink & white noise here. Although I can play piano, I hardly ever do because I just sound like another part-time piano player ; give me a keyboard and/or midi controller and a computer based DAW, and it/I sound like anything but that....given time. I listen to The Strangler's Black&White album, with the same interest I listen to Nils Frahm's All Melody album....and my favourite rendition of Stairway To Heaven, is that by Leonard Teale on Andrew Denton's 'The Money or the Gun' on late 80's teevee (also on YT 8)

The clangour of hammers at the foundry, or the blackie at work, the clicky-clack of train wheels on the tracks....instead of using my hands to play piano, I can use them to build an engine and the mechanical symphony I hear when it starts and runs, is music to my ears...

'Music' is an extremely subjective thing, and tends not to be globally aligned due to sound ethnography. The possible exception to that, may be African drum beats & rhythms, which tend to appeal to many ppl from many ethic backgrounds, and some posit this being a 'genetic memory' that heralds back to the beginnings of mankind. On top of this, we don't all hear sound in the same way....wrt topic, one might play the most 'beautiful' piece of music one has ever heard to someone else, and that someone else might wrinkle their face & cover their ears because it's the worst music they've ever heard. If I disrespect topic and example this effect in the domain of sound --- the sound of chalk/fingernails scraping on a blackboard, the sound of polystyrene foam rubbing and squeaking against itself/something --- to many ppl these sounds will (colloquially) 'curdle one's blood' ....and yet to others these same sounds don't effect them at all ; it's just another noise/sound to them (and said sound does have a frequency component, more than 1 and forms a complex note).

...I wonder if I can sample the musical chimes that come out of our washing machine, and turn that into a 'song'?...

electronic.ambient.cut-up.experimental.pop.jungle

Just a quote from wiki to sum things up:
Music is the of arranging in time through the of melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre. It is one of the aspects of all human societies.

If I use the sound of chalk/fingernails scraping on a blackboard as a wave form in a trans-wave synthesiser and process it with the nice formants and timbre I am likely to get it to sound somewhat like a violin.

[Ah-Those-Old-Days!]

Just a quote from wiki to sum things up:
Music is the of arranging in time through the of melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre. It is one of the aspects of all human societies.

If I use the sound of chalk/fingernails scraping on a blackboard as a wave form in a trans-wave synthesiser and process it with the nice formants and timbre I am likely to get it to sound somewhat like a violin.

I'm in desperate need of a pretty fancy synthesizer then, as MY violin 35 years ago, sounded very much like Fingernails on a ChalkBoard!!!!!
But... to an Alien, it might have sounded nice!!!

[wotnot]

To 'wotnot' above here, that was one of the most profound & well-worded things I have read in a long time!! And you should be proud
to be able to think/articulate like that! Respect!!!

Ummm...no, I never hold (self) pride ~ it comes before a fall ; I paid attention in English...although given the opportunity, I chose not to become a barrister ; too many {ahem} 'musical chairs' ; I'd rather be a hack like Rumpole...8)

it just seems to Flow from us, when playing together, in a way that I find quite humbling, peaceful & warming

I'm sure the Pentecostal Church congregation say the same thing, and many other instances of 'common interest camaraderie' involving groups of animals...not only human beings and/or music ; I remember having similar feelings in the dressing room after winning a good game of rugga....the whir of the rattle guns and pit crew feeling of having pulled off a fast one...lots of things I guess ... you get this singing in a choir as well, when everyone realizes they nailed it ; you're still only creating sound, singing someone else's song....I mean, I 'get it', I really do...I'm just pointing out it's not an 'especially' music thang...

Regardless of what instruments you use....

Even if they're not meant to be (musical) instruments ~ veejay makes for a good instrument, a bit of sampling, drumloop beats, teevee source --

DAWs are great fun, tho' one tends to work alone ; it's the nature of the beast...the sound replaces need for accompaniment, and any sound can be an instrument.

[Ah-Those-Old-Days!]

Last comment for tonight!! (After a few(?) Scotches with the Missus, playing music outside)...
A lot of people Globally, think that "Waltzing Matilda" should be our National Anthem !! Well... NO!! As much as I like playing it.
It's about a Sheep-Stealer, who gets caught. And the term 'Waltzing Matilda', (the police saying "you'll come a waltzing...", was
originally to do with being HUNG!, and your legs would be dangling and kicking in the process!! So there you go!!!!