Music Notes!! A pretty Global language!!

[Ah-Those-Old-Days!]

Being a 'Muso', (Guitar & other instruments), it's always amazed me what just 8 notes, (& 5 Sharps/Flats) can signify!!
The English Alphabet has 26 letters, but with just the above, virtually every single song/tune Globally, from whatever 'genera'
of music from Pop songs, to Classical etc., in their millions, consists of just those few notes in various/varying orders!!
And it amazes me how particular 'Sequences' can be Copyrighted with only those few to work with. Is someone 'copying' a
whole Tune, or just the Chorus/Interlude, or a particular 'Riff'... What about just a repeated 'Bar' of 4 notes!!! Ppfftt...

All that aside, over the years, (decades!), I've played at many concerts & festivals, (I'm mainly a 'Folkie'), and have often sat
down with various other players from many countries, that don't even speak English... But somehow we just 'Make-Music' !!
We may have never heard the 'tune' before, but we understand how music 'works', and we know the Key, and after even just
a few Bars we all get the Gist of what it's about including standard progressions, and we are shortly all playing it !!!

Once you are able to grasp what happens musically, it's like a 'Universal Language', and no words need to be spoken!...

[Uncle Fester]

Once you are able to grasp what happens musically, it's like a 'Universal Language', and no words need to be spoken!...

Same could be said for mathematics, actually I would go further and say UNIVERSAL as in communication with extraterrestrials.

Music and maths may seem a bit far apart for some but actually they are not. It is all about harmonics and Fourier analysis, very mathematical!

The first synthesiser, the church organ is all about adding harmonics, again very mathematical and the higher these harmonics go the more you will find the intervals used in the actual music itself that defines chords and harmonies that we find appealing to hear.

Of course there is also mathematics involved to create any instrument although a lot was initially achieved with trial and error.

So just like binary is universal, I would expect also music on other worlds to be not so much different either.

That said I can't read note music, more out of protest because my father(a professional musician) forced me to play music as a child, the clarinet. I memorised it when he played it, then I pretended to read it, but if I didn't get it right, he got furious that I couldn't read what was in front of me. Punishment was then imminent.
Luckily he mostly let me alone with the piano that I usually played when nobody was home. I never liked it when somebody listened to me.

Things changed when I got in high school and met the right guys. I ended up playing for 10 years in a hard and heavy band in Germany, touring and made an Album but that ended in 1990.
I was more interested in the structure of music, composing, making repairing and improving instruments and creating sounds, rather than performing.
These days I can only play if the sound of what I am playing turns me on then I just improvise, yeah and after downing a few beers.
I can rarely remember what I played the next day and can not repeat it.
I don't play other people's music, although I can quickly nut most of it out on a keyboard and I only like instrumentals not vocals unless sung in awesome harmony.
As a kid I liked to confuse people when I said I am an AC/DC addict who likes Simon and Garfunkel.

Today there is only focus on singers and I find the music that is 'offered' today mostly an abomination.

[Ah-Those-Old-Days!]

I LOVED everything you said "Uncle Fester", but will respond properly tomorrow, after a nap that I need!!
However... in the interim, I MUST say/agree that 'Music' is VERY Mathematical!!!

[enf]

Been watching Close Encounters Fester....

.................................................. ......

Today there is only focus on singers and I find the music that is 'offered' today mostly an abomination.

Amen to that....although thres nothing wrong with singers if they can actually sing. My parents listened to real singers. It wasn't my cup of tea, but they were really good.

ffs, some of the sh!t that my children listen to is numbing.

[lsemmens]

Agree with all of the above. I've been a muso (guitar and bass) for most of my life. I look back and wish that, as a kid I was forced to learn the piano although I can read music and know my way around a piano, I can't play it. I come from a line of concert pianists. I'm also stroppy in that, although I know all the theory and progressions et al. I still need a chart, keyboard or other instrument to follow. (i.e. read). My ear is atrocious.

[Uncle Fester]

I still need a chart, keyboard or other instrument to follow. (i.e. read). My ear is atrocious.

My timing is atrocious and I can't follow anyone.
However with the band it worked sort of OK because the bass player was like a glue between me and the drummer.

Most embarrassing when I had to record single tracks in a studio.
Most of the time I played riffs on the guitar, little melody lines where you could hide small timing errors but when the studio asked me to play an underlying rhythm guitar in Malcom Young style, I folded.
Don't know how many takes it took until I get that bloody timing right.

I even had and still have a drum kit at home where I nutted out reasonably cool solos but this never helped much with my timing.

I was much more comfortable behind the mixing pad or buried inside a 24-channel digital tape machine servicing it, rather than in front of a microphone when that scary red light is on.

[trash]

Music and Maths.

Lets just stick with a simple two crotchets and one octave. There are 12 notes in an octave. That gives us 144 combinations with just two simple notes.
Lets expand this to a 4/4 bar. Four simple notes, one octave gives us 20736 combinations.

Lets try four bars, two octaves and a choice of crotchets, quavers, minums and semis.
Gives is something like (6x20)^16 = more combinations of notes in four bars then there are stars in the universe.

That's a rather vague description because there are even more possible combinations than the simplistic example I used, but as we know not all of them are winning combinations.
Some sound like a Madonna remix or a B side Big Audio Dynamic single. (craptacular).

[Uncle Fester]

Your maths would go ballistic when you would include all my bending, hammer-ons, attacks, slurs, flageolets... simply put, all the expressions that differ a human from a computer in playing an instrument.
Yes I can can program a computer to do all that too(with a lot of work) but it will never be as spontaneous and natural as a human can play.

My favourite term in music notation is "ad lib." which for me means "knock yourself out"

[Ah-Those-Old-Days!]

Your maths would go ballistic when you would include all my bending, hammer-ons, attacks, slurs, flageolets... simply put, all the expressions that differ a human from a computer in playing an instrument.
Yes I can can program a computer to do all that too(with a lot of work) but it will never be as spontaneous and natural as a human can play.
My favourite term in music notation is "ad lib." which for me means "knock yourself out"

Very true!!
In my 1st statement in this post, I also deliberately left out 'Japanese' music!!, which can often use frequencies
totally out of line with general music notation, regarding note progressions!!

[Ah-Those-Old-Days!]

Same could be said for mathematics, actually I would go further and say UNIVERSAL as in communication with extraterrestrials.
Music and maths may seem a bit far apart for some but actually they are not. It is all about harmonics and Fourier analysis, very mathematical!
The first synthesiser, the church organ is all about adding harmonics, again very mathematical and the higher these harmonics go the more you will find the intervals
used in the actual music itself that defines chords and harmonies that we find appealing to hear.

Of course there is also mathematics involved to create any instrument although a lot was initially achieved with trial and error.

So just like binary is universal, I would expect also music on other worlds to be not so much different either.

That said I can't read note music, more out of protest because my father(a professional musician) forced me to play music as a child, the clarinet. I memorised it when he played it, then I pretended to read it, but if I didn't get it right, he got furious that I couldn't read what was in front of me. Punishment was then imminent.
Luckily he mostly let me alone with the piano that I usually played when nobody was home. I never liked it when somebody listened to me.

Things changed when I got in high school and met the right guys. I ended up playing for 10 years in a hard and heavy band in Germany, touring and made an Album but that ended in 1990.
I was more interested in the structure of music, composing, making repairing and improving instruments and creating sounds, rather than performing.
These days I can only play if the sound of what I am playing turns me on then I just improvise, yeah and after downing a few beers.
I can rarely remember what I played the next day and can not repeat it.
I don't play other people's music, although I can quickly nut most of it out on a keyboard and I only like instrumentals not vocals unless sung in awesome harmony.
As a kid I liked to confuse people when I said I am an AC/DC addict who likes Simon and Garfunkel.
Today there is only focus on singers and I find the music that is 'offered' today mostly an abomination.

Thought I would respond as I said I would mate!!
Firstly, you spoke of communication with Extraterrestrials... I've always hoped that 'they' would grasp Music too, & maybe it is even part of their language!!
Slightly aside from that, I remember, and loved!, the Carl Sagan fictional book called "Contact". Where-in he explains in detail how the 1st level of 'signals'
could be how to interpret/learn an understanding both ways!! Too much to explain here, but certainly plausible and informative!!

You then talked about... It is all about harmonics and Fourier analysis, very mathematical!
You are so right. Even simplistically looking at the likes of the 'Circle Of Fifths', and the mathematical reduction of spaces of frets on a Guitar etc., such that
the 12th fret, (see circle of 5ths), is one Octave higher, and each halving of length is an Octave shift... Not to mention the '1st, 4th, 5th' rule pertaining to
the general progression of typical 'sounds' for virtually any tunes/songs Chords. (Eg: Key of 'C', main chords are C, F, G etc). A 'relative minor is minus 2 notes
and call it a minor!! (For C chord, it is an Am, and for G chord, it is an Em etc etc). Diagnosing the notes/frequencies, it's just basic maths!!!

You liked it when people could not hear you!! I've always been the same, and would have my most 'D&M' (Deep & Meaningful), moments when I was only
amusing myself. I never realized that what one plays might actually 'entertain' others??!! Then much later, I was introduced to the 'Folk' scene, and then
found myself playing with say 12-15 others... maybe 5 guitars, 3 violins, 3 flutes, Banjos & Mandolins etc etc... I felt like I belonged!!
Since then, I moved to front-row, and enjoy the camaraderie as well as the visitors that we would enjoy, & always got their kids to play with us for fun...

Re: The last few words/times I made 'Bold' from your reply...
Since moving to WA, (Bunbury actually), I have lost contact with the vast majority of the people & events that I was most spoilt with back in Adelaide!!
So MY appreciation for music now, is listening to & playing along with many such 'Oldies' & Folkie music on the likes of YouTube' !!!
I thought I better say NOW, that I do not sing!! Well... not any more... I used to be paid 50c back in about 1965's or something!! to sing with the Church
organist at Weddings!!! (Until my voice broke hahahaha...). Now I JUST accompany!!

ANYWAY, in regards to 'todays' abominations....
When ever something is playing, I swear I can hear every note/chord etc...and play accordingly...
However, the other end of the spectrum, regarding Voices, sometimes not an INSTRUMENT needs to accompany it!!
Yes, you may have guessed it, called Acapella . One of the tunes/songs I used to love playing, is called "The Parting Glass".
Here is a totally Acapella version that I also love!!!!!!
No instrumentation, but just beautiful harmonies

[enf]

What a BOB. If they can cross the f*cking galaxy, I'm sure that English would be within their grasp.

Then we can get them into Clapton and real music before the modern rap bred dickheads get a look in.

(Sorry...jugs still boiling..)

[Uncle Fester]

@Ah-Those-Old-Day, looks like we are in perfect harmony from your response

In regards to not wanting someone listening to me playing, nothing has changed today. Thanks Sennheiser for all the quality headphones I now have.
Apart from the fact that I am totally rusty if I pick up an instrument and the consequent embarrassment, I always felt pressured to play what the listener wants to hear and not what I want to play, well not only felt that, I usually WAS pressured.
I also can not be pressured into being creative, some people actually need that pressure but me not.
It turns me totally off when somebody tells me to play this or that 'song' after they heard I play an instrument. The suggestions are almost always pop rubbish and they all expect you to sing too ...at least here in Australia.
So I try to conceal the fact of my past musicality with close encounters and I usually manage to hide from these people too.


@Enf, as an Alien I would have picked German as it is the most logical of the languages I am aware of, always spoken the way it is written.
Unfortunately their sensors are far more likely to pick up rap before anything else and the Aliens will think the twisted form of English used there is the common denominator for communication on this planet.

[lsemmens]

Can you imagine what the Aliens would make of us considering the cr*p that is broadcast on the airwaves every second of the the day. "Ways of our Wives", "As the stomach turns", "Doctor Phil", and so on.........

[Uncle Fester]

Can you imagine what the Aliens would make of us considering the cr*p that is broadcast on the airwaves every second of the the day. "Ways of our Wives", "As the stomach turns", "Doctor Phil", and so on.........

I can only hope they arrive without prejudice otherwise the only logical solution is to destroy us.
Maybe the show "Resident Alien" might lighten their mood somewhat and have a little sympathy for the lost human race ...before they destroy us.

[Al Bundy]

What the hell makes people think that the so called aliens even have ears and can hear anything, or even just hear the frequencies we hear, why not ultrasonic or subsonic, why is it that we make the assumption that they are even remotely like humans, in any way ???

[Uncle Fester]

What the hell makes people think that the so called aliens even have ears and can hear anything, or even just hear the frequencies we hear, why not ultrasonic or subsonic, why is it that we make the assumption that they are even remotely like humans, in any way ???

Because we know the laws of physics are universal.

For a planet to sustain life it requires an atmosphere.
Where there is an atmosphere there will be acoustic waves when something moves with in it.
Evolution shows that a life form that is capable of receiving acoustic waves will be superior than a life form that can not as it will hear a danger like a falling rock/tree/landslide or a predator coming for it and can respond accordingly thus be more likely to survive.
There are not many species on our planet that can not respond to vibrations of our atmosphere.
Evolution also shows that a life form that is capable of communication will develop social interaction with other beings and can further develop and become intelligent.
This is all simply because the atmosphere vibrates and therefore this will always be most likely used for communication until the species has evolved so far that it can generate electromagnetic waves for the purpose.

Music and communication in ultrasonic or subsonic frequencies would be for them no different than what we hear, merely in a different frequency range and if they have the tech to pick up our signals then it would be no problem to shift it into a range that can be heard by them. Understanding our spoken language is a very different story but as we have pointed out there are mathematical laws that dictate certain music intervals from wave forms(harmonics) that are universal.

[Al Bundy]

Oh, right, if you say so then it has to be so. But your very first statement I’m going to argue is wrong, the “Laws of Physics” have never been universal, The laws of physics 200 years ago don’t reflect what they were 100 years ago, nor do the laws of physics 100 years ago reflect what they are now, and who knows what new discoveries await the “Laws of Physics” between now and 2122, so don’t try and spout that rubbish, oh right, I forgot, for you the earth is flat and the universe revolves around the earth, how silly of me to forget that, especially if you say so.

[enf]

Come on Al. I've seen Star Trek. The UNIVERSE speaks English. The females of almost ANY species cover up their tits too. Therefore there must be something to that...hmmmm...

Don't overthink it....

[Uncle Fester]

...nor do the laws of physics 100 years ago reflect what they are now, .

Well if you are such a better knowing smart arse then prove to me that Einstein is now today wrong with all what he discovered more than 100 years ago.
The difference between the middle ages and today is that we can already predict(thanks to mathematics) what we don't know, we just need to discover and prove it.

I won't bother to respond to the rest of your insulting garbage which excellently displays your utter ignorance.

[lsemmens]

Actually the "laws" of physics have not changed. Just our understanding of them. Gravity is still a myth, the Earth still sucks!