My strange 5G issues that I cannot understand

[Mr 672A]

Hi all this is my first post so be kind.

I have a mesh 2.3 prime focus dish and use actuator to scan all satellites from Asiasat 5 at 100 degrees east to Intelsat 18 at 180 degrees east. I don't care if I can understand the lingo but it a hobbies for me.
Ever since 5G has shown his ugly face (new tower went up 5 weeks or so) it has getting worse and worse to a point Asiasat 5 at 100 deg east it totally wiped out except for the BBC World service and its feeds on 4132 H that pixelate very little so I purchased a 5G filter LNB and the model is Mediastar G5052 Ultra High Gain PLL 3.7-4.2 GHZ LO 5150, gain 65dB noise figures 15 Deg K. The older LNBF was a wipe out on Asiasat 5 but acceptable most other satellites but at the other end of the arc Intelsat 18 at 180 Deg East the ABC Australia was totally wiped out. Yes I know its RHCP but use to get it 5 weeks ago

I change the LNB with the 5G Mediastar one and my finding are:

1/ Asiasat 5 :, I can get any Vertical Channels example Rai Italia, Vatican Media, RTP International 98% ok with no pixelates but they heavily pixelated with the old LNBF and I have noticed on some Vertical biss Feeds that I have the key they work 98% ok but all the Horizontal channels are like before with the old LNBF, full of errors. This is one of the things that I dont understand, Why is Vertical OK but Horizontal it pixelates the same as before with the old LNB.
Have I got dud LNBF that fixes Vertical but NOTHING on Horizontal.

2/ Now Asiasat 7 at 105 Deg Vertical is 96% I say 96% mixed with V and H being ok and it has more Vertical Channels to test but around 98% of Vert channels work with no pixelates 75% of Horizontal Channels are ok

(have not done so far Telkom 4 yet)

3/ Chinasat 6B at 115 deg East. 98% of Channels (few of them on this sat) Both V and H are ok.

4/ Asiasat 9 122 Deg East ( no Vert on this bird) but the few Horizontal channels have slight pixelates

5/ Chinasat 6A 125 Deg East one Vertical Transponder is 98% ok and all 50 odd Horizontal channels on different transponders are 99% good

6/ Apstar 6C 134 Deg East all V and H, you get the drift by now, the higher the dish goes the better it becomes.

7/Telstar 18 at 138 Deg all V and H, you get the drift by now, the higher the dish goes the better it becomes.

8/ Apstar 9 142 Deg East. Only one transponder is on in V and its ok

9/ Intelsat 19 166 Deg East, 99% of Channels V and H are OK and have no pixelates.

10/Eutelsat 172B all OK (limited transponder) to check or they are Encrypted but in general all is OK.

11/ Intelsat 18 at 180 Deg East. Once one channels (ABC Australia) and its in RHCP and using my Linear feed horn but before with the old feed horn and LNB it was 60% stuffed with pixelates but with the new 5G setup it very good as I rate it 98% good

(I know different locations have Different issues)

Now for the Million Dollar question

Why is Asiasat 5 at 100 deg East a basket case for my ocation and when I change to the new 5G filtered set up it only fixes Verticlw Channels ONLY, Rai Italia, Vatican Media, RTP International, and only 2 biss feed channels, all in V

Why does the new LNBF Combo only fixes Verticle but does noting on Horizontal channels.

Have I got a dud LNB?

Today is the 31/05/2022 do we have a better LNBF Combo to get that is better than the Mediastar Model number G 5052

Thanks all.

[mtv]

A few possibilities.

LNB skew not optimised for horizontal transponders.

Transponder power is not the same for all transponders, perhaps H pol are lower powered compared to V?

The % you are quoting mean very little as you haven't said what that % relates to... signal strength or signal quality?

Given V works on other sats suggests your LNB isn't faulty.

You really need accurate signal analysis to see what exactly is happening. Eg: accurate BER/MER readings.

As you said, the issue only started when 5G commenced with a TX site near you, suggests the issue is 5G interference, which is very common nowadays.

There are some commercial LNB's which offer better performance and have different frequency filters, but they are expensive and you need a separate one each for H & V... and they still may not solve your issue.

[Mr 672A]

A few possibilities.

LNB skew not optimised for horizontal transponders.

Transponder power is not the same for all transponders, perhaps H pol are lower powered compared to V?

The % you are quoting mean very little as you haven't said what that % relates to... signal strength or signal quality?

Given V works on other sats suggests your LNB isn't faulty.

You really need accurate signal analysis to see what exactly is happening. Eg: accurate BER/MER readings.

As you said, the issue only started when 5G commenced with a TX site near you, suggests the issue is 5G interference, which is very common nowadays.

There are some commercial LNB's which offer better performance and have different frequency filters, but they are expensive and you need a separate one each for H & V... and they still may not solve your issue.

I will try to write it in a way that other can understand because its hard to explain

After I fitted the new feed horn and the LNB the 5G one I marked it with a fine permanent pen so I can see the skew that favors V or H (testing) or favors the both so for testing I favored H (losing quality on V) but the H was still the same (no Good, full of pixelates) and the V was good very few pixelates in 5 minutes of testing with slightly lower quality like 49, normal is for RAI is 51-53. Normally on most transponders I have Signal around 93 to 95 and the quality is between 50 to 69 and that fair for a 2.3M mesh dish

BBC World TV is in H ( with 5G filter LNB on)with a Signal of 95 and Quality of 69 and it still pixelates a little more than 5-10 per 5 minutes of viewing yet channels with the Vert with the 5G Filter LNB has less power 'EG' Rai Italia that has Sig 92 and quality of 51 to 53 and the channel is about 98% good that means I have no more that two to three pixelates in 5 minutes of viewing. Now that good for any site that has a 5G tower 500-600 m away

When I say % the Parentage If I say 95%, 96% 98% good It means if I watch the channel I get one or two or even three pixelates in 5 minutes I say its good enough but if I say 20% good I will get 50 or more pixelates in for 5 minutes of viewing and that is bad


You say Given V works on other sats suggests your LNB isn't faulty. NO what i'm saying Horizontal is the problem on the NEW 5G LNB because V is reasonably ok on Asiasat 5 except for Macau TV on 3726V pixelates badly but H on Asiasat 5 does not do anything different compared to the old LNB Feed horn setup"eg" both new and old LNB work the same on H they dont filter anything and .

Now the big question is now!

This Mediastar G5052 Ultra High Gain PLL 3.7-4.2 GHZ LO 5150, gain 65dB noise figures 15 Deg K is this 5G LNBF designed ONLY for Rai Italia, Vatican Media, RTP International using Vertical ONLY (most want this only) or at the same time most using V platform like "eg" EBU feeds in Vertical only but not Macau TV on 3726V pixelates badly so by saying this it only works on Vertical (not the lower 3726V) but does stuff all in Horizontal "eg" does not filter anything in H, pixelates fair to bad.
Once again Thanks

[CONAXLE]

Find out which Provider is sending 5G in your Area, Optus, Telstra , Vodaphone ,TPG/IInet. I had that a few years ago , Measat 3c and Asiasat 5+7 were shocking, Intelsat 19C ok.It got worse ,so I turf out the Mediastar 5G Lnbf and bought a 5G Filter only (expensive) and used my 10+year old Gardner LNB. I don't get interference and the signal fluctuations gone, not even the passing plane disturb the signal..

[Mr 672A]

Find out which Provider is sending 5G in your Area, Optus, Telstra , Vodaphone ,TPG/IInet. I had that a few years ago , Measat 3c and Asiasat 5+7 were shocking, Intelsat 19C ok.It got worse ,so I turf out the Mediastar 5G Lnbf and bought a 5G Filter only (expensive) and used my 10+year old Gardner LNB. I don't get interference and the signal fluctuations gone, not even the passing plane disturb the signal..

Very interesting!
First Telstra turned on 5G (the Closest tower, 250 m away, 10 months ago) but the hill and the two story houses protect me, Second it was Optus and I'm again protected by a hill (about 5 months ago)and houses around our way and it was ok and both Telstra and Optus had little effect on my CBAND system but 5-7 weeks ago ( I was away so dont know exactly)weeks Ago I turned on my system and it was Gone, effected on most satellites but mainly Asiasat 5.
I say it has to be another provider that faces my dishes on the other clear side of the dishes that it cause the issue. I got a email from my friend (not seen yet) showing all 5G towers in my area.
Does your 5G filter (expensive) does V and H ? do you need two of them for V and H, more info needed. Different provides using different Freq? compared to Telstra and Vodaphone and IInet. Have to find out which the new is either Vodaphone IINet
Thanks a million.

[CONAXLE]

We'll the 5G filter cost $700 alone, I use a mechanical /12 Volt Polariser, I bought it from AVComm in Sydney. When I first bought my Mediastar 5G Lnbf there was only Telstra 5g transmitting in my area, now that It doesn't work anymore,I googled which provider has covered 5G signal in my area, to my surprise the 4 of the providers are transmitting 5G in my area.You will need 2x 5G filters for Horizontal and Vertical signals. There is a cheaper chinese made 5G Filter on Ebay but I am not sure how effective they are. For your info..

[Mr 672A]

We'll the 5G filter cost $700 alone, I use a mechanical /12 Volt Polariser, I bought it from AVComm in Sydney. When I first bought my Mediastar 5G Lnbf there was only Telstra 5g transmitting in my area, now that It doesn't work anymore,I googled which provider has covered 5G signal in my area, to my surprise the 4 of the providers are transmitting 5G in my area.You will need 2x 5G filters for Horizontal and Vertical signals. There is a cheaper chinese made 5G Filter on Ebay but I am not sure how effective they are. For your info..

Yes I know AV-Comm.
Your ones are US made or maybe US patient made from China . I suspected $700 for one and to buy two off them that a lot. Now to have two of them one for V and one for H you must need a special feed horn like a orthomode feed horn.

[CONAXLE]

Yes I know AV-Comm.
Your ones are US made or maybe US patient made from China . I suspected $700 for one and to buy two off them that a lot. Now to have two of them one for V and one for H you must need a special feed horn like a orthomode feed horn.

Yes, you need an Orthomode feedhorn or a Chapparal Dual Feedhorn...Picture....

[Mr 672A]

Yes, you need an Orthomode feedhorn or a Chapparal Dual Feedhorn...Picture....

Now to add the sums

1/ Orthomode feedhorn or a Chapparal Dual Feedhorn possible hard to get in Australia, Cost Unknown ?
2/ Two filters Cost $700 each = 2x $700= $1400
3 Two LNB's to suit the flange, Single pol they were available but hard to get now as most use LNBF Cost were around $50 each 2 X 50= $100 but expect to be a lot more if you can get them.

[Mr 672A]

Found this on ebay or other China.

C Band 5G Filter



C Band Dual Polarity Feed horn


Typical LNB


Cheaper LNB

[CONAXLE]

I read the Norsat LNB with Built in 5G Filter does the job.also the AVComm 5G LNB with Built in Filter but both $$$. Melbourne Satellites sells them

[Mr 672A]

Found this on ebay or other China.

I stuff up with the link

C Band 5G Filter



C Band Dual Polarity Feed horn


Typical LNB


Cheaper LNB

[Mr 672A]

I read the Norsat LNB with Built in 5G Filter does the job.also the AVComm 5G LNB with Built in Filter but both $$$. Melbourne Satellites sells them

Will look at Melbourne Satellite

[Mr 672A]

This is the possible cheapest to get.
Two LNB's, 2 Filters, and one Feed horn for V and H. Yes US $$$$$Dollars$$$$

[Mr 672A]

Yes, you need an Orthomode feedhorn or a Chapparal Dual Feedhorn...Picture....

Tell me if in the future Telstra, Optus, VodaPhone and other Decide to go further inter the frequencies of our beloved CBand range like over 3700 MHz will this expensive set up by have the Dual feedhorn, two filters, and two single lnb's will future proof my setup

[backer]

5GRUBBISH have you tried a LNB that filters below 3.8-4.2Ghz ?
I know you will loose some TP's in the 3.7 range but if it works it's better than nothing.

I had a 5G filtered Mediastar SG5150 3.7-4.2Ghz and it didnt stop the interfearence. Then I changed over to a Satking 3108 3.8-4.2Ghz and its improved greatly.
There are other newer 5G filtered LNB such as the Mediastar A381 that has a range of 3.8-4.1Ghz. Both of these are around the $100 on ebay.

I am sure those professional solutions work better but it depends on how much you want to pay for the hobby.

[Mr 672A]

5GRUBBISH have you tried a LNB that filters below 3.8-4.2Ghz ?
I know you will loose some TP's in the 3.7 range but if it works it's better than nothing.

I had a 5G filtered Mediastar SG5150 3.7-4.2Ghz and it didnt stop the interfearence. Then I changed over to a Satking 3108 3.8-4.2Ghz and its improved greatly.
There are other newer 5G filtered LNB such as the Mediastar A381 that has a range of 3.8-4.1Ghz. Both of these are around the $100 on ebay.

I am sure those professional solutions work better but it depends on how much you want to pay for the hobby.

I asked the guy on ebay 5 times this question and he never answered the question. He went around the question and the Question was about the mediastar, the new one A382-F

The F is for 2 outputs. That is what i need so I asked him, does your new A382-F frequency 3.8-4.1, does it work on horizontal? YES Horizontal. A very simple question because my new MediaStar G5052 with 2 outputs removes interference on the vertical channels like RAI and RTP International and they work okay but horizontal were still like before with the old LNB. Plus any satellites say on Asiasat 7 and other were affected on Horizontal more than vertical.

Im thinking about going to a twin feedhorn, two filters and two single LNBs. Yes this is alot more expensive to do. Im not going to buy the quality ones because it cost me $2000 + to do it if i buy it in Australia but I can source the same (cheaper brand) in Singapore for around about $500.. Yes Norsat is very good but you pay close to $700 AU for each single lnb and you need two of them and to get the filters they will set you at least $650 each and you need two of them and if you buy a genuine Chaparral feed horn for V and H it cost over $200.

Who knows the Government might sell my bandwidth and the providers might go above 3.7GHZ for 5G and if they do the 3.8s to 4.1 LNBF will be useless and the only thing that will work is to have a special feedhorn with two ports, one for V and one for H. Two interference filters, one on each and then have a dedicated single LNB on each one so that's 5 items will need to buy

[Mr 672A]

5GRUBBISH have you tried a LNB that filters below 3.8-4.2Ghz ?
I know you will loose some TP's in the 3.7 range but if it works it's better than nothing.

I had a 5G filtered Mediastar SG5150 3.7-4.2Ghz and it didnt stop the interfearence. Then I changed over to a Satking 3108 3.8-4.2Ghz and its improved greatly.
There are other newer 5G filtered LNB such as the Mediastar A381 that has a range of 3.8-4.1Ghz. Both of these are around the $100 on ebay.

I am sure those professional solutions work better but it depends on how much you want to pay for the hobby.

I might go with this and I can get it alot cheaper than this.

[Mr 672A]

I might go with this and I can get it alot cheaper than this.

The only thing that's worry me about buying the above is the insertion loss of a typical standalone Waveguide Filter that will result in a carrier to noise (C/N) reduction by ~0.5-1.0dB. Now how will this loss even if its only 0.5db to 1.0 db will effect a small 2.3M dish. Does anyone have a clue on this. No doubt the bigger the dish is the better.

[B52]

As of late 3695Mhz become active, used by Vodafon/TPG.. totally overwhelming the 3700 and above frequencies. Once the interference pass through the LNB amplification the whole 3.7-4.2GHz spectrum become effected... The newer 5G 3.8-4.1 GHz work well, the downside is that transponders below 3800Mhz can not be received.