Police investigating police

[bazzy]

I am not sure how many people are across the news article where the Police discharged a tasered a 95 year old lady holding a knife.
here is a link to the article



I find it really concerning that the police are performing an internal investigation into what could be amounted to manslaughter if not murder.
In this article the police are refusing to release the body camera footage and are performing an internal investigation.

The elderly lady is now in end of life care so she is going to die as a result of her injury and as outlined in the article her dementia was in the early stages so can not be attributed to her cause of death.

What is even more concerning is that the family has been silenced and essentially told not to talk to the media about this.

This situation stinks of corruption and is looking unlikely to see justice.

a couple of points i need to make here.

1. If the police in attendance where unable to overpower and disarm an elderly lady then they really have no place on the force.

2. in the case of an elderly lady discharging an electrical shock device such as a taser can be just as lethal as discharging gun.

if any other member of the public caused this kind of harm to an elderly lady regardless of her holding a knife or not would be charged with either murder / manslaughter in the case of her death or attempted murder / grievous bodily harm should she not die from the injury.

so why is it that the police are basically allowed to murder people then obstruct justice by investigating themselves, gag people involved and withhold video footage of the incident likely because its incriminating while at the same time saying "we wont be bias i promise"

[lsemmens]

I understand all your concerns and agree, it does seem that the taser was unwarranted. It also seems strange that the police were even called. Hopefully, the truth, and the body-cam footage will come out. It's easy for us sitting on the sidelines to judge without all the facts therewith. The cops do have the power to use more force than either you or I so, whilst we might be charged in similar situations they might get away with a slap on the wrist. The problem here is, if they are prosecuted for discharging their duty (as per the law) then every cop on the beat will be second guessing themselves in every situation resulting in possible loss of life or limb. They have a difficult job to do as it is.

Before you all jump up and down saying I disagree with bazzy, Please re-read my first sentence!

[bazzy]

I understand all your concerns and agree, it does seem that the taser was unwarranted. It also seems strange that the police were even called. Hopefully, the truth, and the body-cam footage will come out. It's easy for us sitting on the sidelines to judge without all the facts therewith. The cops do have the power to use more force than either you or I so, whilst we might be charged in similar situations they might get away with a slap on the wrist. The problem here is, if they are prosecuted for discharging their duty (as per the law) then every cop on the beat will be second guessing themselves in every situation resulting in possible loss of life or limb. They have a difficult job to do as it is.

Before you all jump up and down saying I disagree with bazzy, Please re-read my first sentence!

although i agree prosecution can lead to second guessing, failing to do so leads to thuggish behavior and in turn can easily result in death when there are no real consequences.

it seems fairly simple here and shouldn't have needed second guessing. don't discharge high voltage into an elderly lady just shy of 100.

[enf]

If the media have taught us ANYTHING (and they should have) over the last 10 or 20 years, particularly recently, it's to wait one or two weeks for the REAL story to come out, and the sensationalist bullsh!t to subside. The modern media just ouright lie when it suits them, plain and simple.

I'll agree that on the face of it the police involved should be hung, drawn, and quartered. And my sympathies go out to this poor woman and her family. But I'll wait until the media hysteria is overlooked and we get all the facts.

I have great respect for the police. They have a REALLY difficult job. But seriously, one has to question the intellectual acumen of these people sometimes.

[bazzy]

If the media have taught us ANYTHING (and they should have) over the last 10 or 20 years, particularly recently, it's to wait one or two weeks for the REAL story to come out, and the sensationalist bullsh!t to subside. The modern media just ouright lie when it suits them, plain and simple.

I'll agree that on the face of it the police involved should be hung, drawn, and quartered. And my sympathies go out to this poor woman and her family. But I'll wait until the media hysteria is overlooked and we get all the facts.

I have great respect for the police. They have a REALLY difficult job. But seriously, one has to question the intellectual acumen of these people sometimes.

The fact that the police are refusing to release the body cam footage of the incident shows they have something to hide. I think there may be some honesty to their statement that it isn't in the best interest of the community to see it because it would probably erode any respect for their profession that the public has at the moment.

I have respect for the police to a point. there are some very good officers on the force and the majority have their hearts in the right place however Respect is earned not a given and when stuff like this happens then they refuse to release footage despite public and government calls to release it leads one to suspect they are hiding something.

The respect for police point actually reminds me of a time when i was younger coming home from work. the police where i live where stopping cars to hand brochures to a community event they where holding to find ways to better improve their image to the community, I recall saying something along the lines as "if police would stop breaking the law and acting like thugs that would go a long way towards improving their image"

Now I am not saying stop doing their jobs. or go easy on criminals. however their attitude and ethics need improvement.

I have had many bad experiences with police (no im not a criminal) I have called on them many times and had them fail me. in 2006 someone broke into my unit. the police did nothing about it. in 2013 my neighbor stole my brand new air compressor then listed it on gumtree for sale. I contacted the police, showed them the listing. and showed them proof of ownership. they said "we can't do anything sorry" then i said well if you wont i am going to go and get it back myself. there response threw me. "if you do that we will charge you with theft" so I would be charged for retrieving my own property that i have proof of ownership from a thief who was selling it for drug money. it was at this point my "respect" for police was eroded. I often now refer to them as criminals in uniform.

in 2021 police attended my mothers place due to a break in, they basically said "there is nothing we can really do here" In that break in my mother lost all her jewelry, they took my farther's wallet (he died and mum was keeping it where he left it for sentimental reasons) and a gold watch that my parents gave me when i was 15 and a silver watch engraved that my brother gave me for my 18th birthday.

from 2015-2022 there has been a kid terrorizing the neighborhood in my area. in fact i have even posted regarding it on this forum before. the police have done nothing about him until the beginning of this year. so seven years this kid has been starting bush fires, breaking into houses, breaking into schools (as ironic as that is considering he wont go to school when he is supposed to) committing assault (my security cameras picked up him beating the daylight out of an indigenous kid that lives up the street) and damaging peoples cars and property. each time the police have done nothing.

so until i start seeing police actually function as intended my respect for them is going to be eroded.

[SS Dave]

It also seems strange that the police were even called. Hopefully, the truth, and the body-cam footage will come out.

That was my 1st thought as to why the police where called, Maybe this wasn't the 1st incident.

[mtv]

Police will not taser a person unless they have a very good reason, usually only if there is an imminent threat to their safety or the safety of others.

Even an elderly person with a weapon can inflict serious injury or death.

As mentioned, there is likely to be far more facts to this story than what's been conveyed by the media so far.

Regardless, it is tragic for all those involved.

[enf]

The fact that the police are refusing to release the body cam footage of the incident shows they have something to hide. I think there may be some honesty to their statement that it isn't in the best interest of the community to see it because it would probably erode any respect for their profession that the public has at the moment.

I have respect for the police to a point. there are some very good officers on the force and the majority have their hearts in the right place however Respect is earned not a given and when stuff like this happens then they refuse to release footage despite public and government calls to release it leads one to suspect they are hiding something.

The respect for police point actually reminds me of a time when i was younger coming home from work. the police where i live where stopping cars to hand brochures to a community event they where holding to find ways to better improve their image to the community, I recall saying something along the lines as "if police would stop breaking the law and acting like thugs that would go a long way towards improving their image"

Now I am not saying stop doing their jobs. or go easy on criminals. however their attitude and ethics need improvement.

I have had many bad experiences with police (no im not a criminal) I have called on them many times and had them fail me. in 2006 someone broke into my unit. the police did nothing about it. in 2013 my neighbor stole my brand new air compressor then listed it on gumtree for sale. I contacted the police, showed them the listing. and showed them proof of ownership. they said "we can't do anything sorry" then i said well if you wont i am going to go and get it back myself. there response threw me. "if you do that we will charge you with theft" so I would be charged for retrieving my own property that i have proof of ownership from a thief who was selling it for drug money. it was at this point my "respect" for police was eroded. I often now refer to them as criminals in uniform.

in 2021 police attended my mothers place due to a break in, they basically said "there is nothing we can really do here" In that break in my mother lost all her jewelry, they took my farther's wallet (he died and mum was keeping it where he left it for sentimental reasons) and a gold watch that my parents gave me when i was 15 and a silver watch engraved that my brother gave me for my 18th birthday.

from 2015-2022 there has been a kid terrorizing the neighborhood in my area. in fact i have even posted regarding it on this forum before. the police have done nothing about him until the beginning of this year. so seven years this kid has been starting bush fires, breaking into houses, breaking into schools (as ironic as that is considering he wont go to school when he is supposed to) committing assault (my security cameras picked up him beating the daylight out of an indigenous kid that lives up the street) and damaging peoples cars and property. each time the police have done nothing.

so until i start seeing police actually function as intended my respect for them is going to be eroded.

,

In most of the cases you mention it's the law, and not police that prevent them from doing anything. In 2000 my last house was broken into, ransacked, and over $40,000 damage done. It was Christmas and nobody was around. Now they attended, forensics came and dusted the place, but I sent them away myself. It was clear to me that they weren't going to find anything.

Through the grapevine, my sons and my eldest daughter were able to find those responsible, A small measure of retribution (not physical) was taken and suffice to say that the local population were made aware of this group, who they were and what they were up to. Their "operations" ceased, at least locally.

The police just can't "fix things". Remember too that the police, like doctors, nurses, tyre fitters or ANY other group of humans, have the same percentage of bad apples as any other. It's human nature. Added to that they deal with lowlifes most of the time, and can sometimes lose sight of the fact that not all people are suss.

[fromaron]

I believe it is a standard practice not to release evidence till the end of investigation and court hearing if it goes ahead.

[Keith]

I believe it is a standard practice not to release evidence till the end of investigation and court hearing if it goes ahead.

A journalist on TV last night made a point. When the police are attacked by a drunken thug or worse, any footage is released rather quick. Is it straight after the confrontation or after the trial of the offender/s I don't know. Enf is right though, media will spin the truth when it suits.

[enf]

................... Enf is right though, media will spin the truth when it suits.

They do SOMETIMES....but they outright lie when it suits them,not spin, and in my view it's becoming more common....

After all, the only people who can really call them out are the media themselves...

[freakee1]

OK, be real - 95 years old, best part of 40 ish kilos, walking frame, knife, dementia, 4am in the morning - Taser would have been the LAST thing they should have used

Now I teach classes of "Self Defence" and here in the NT as we have a lot of "untouchable children" currently attacking and stabbing people with large kitchen knives - walking towards her with a plastic chair would have been suffice, and if she was confused - hey maybe offer ice cream or chocolate

but to taser and then justify - not a good look at all


f

[lsemmens]

The reason why the footage has yet to be released could well be dependent upon a potential legal prosecution. If released early it might well harm the defendant;s case in that an "impartial" jury may not be found. In any court case, the jurors are often directed not to engage in social media / conversations, / research until all evidence is heard and the verdict is in.

[peteramjet]

This situation stinks of corruption and is looking unlikely to see justice.

An interesting point to consider - each time there has been a taser related death by police in NSW, the police involved have been charged. Only been a handful of incidents (one with the Brazilian bloke in the CBD involving a bunch of cops). If they are charging them it’s hard to cry ‘corruption’.

I don’t know the exact number charged, but a quick search suggests it’s around 10. Of those, not one has been convicted by either a magistrate or by a jury. That prosecution of those cops is independent of the police, so again, hard to say there is corruption there.

The relevant part seems to be that when the actual evidence is presented to a court, then the magistrate or the jury is unwilling to convict. That would suggest what is reported in the media is substantially different to what actually occurs.

Now not saying this case is the same, but those other matters, when initially reported, also sounded similarly heinous. If history is anything to go by, it would seem the media reports are far from accurate.

I’d be wary of making claims of corruption and saying we are ‘unlikely to see justice’ when on other occasions the cops have been charged, and our justice system - on reviewing the evidence - has sided on the side of the cops.

[Keith]

Apparently the officer involved has been stood down, not on leave or restricted to the station, but stood down. That say's in itself that maybe he did use excessive force.

[enf]

Apparently the officer involved has been stood down, not on leave or restricted to the station, but stood down. That say's in itself that maybe he did use excessive force.

Should be stood down for an IQ test......

[peteramjet]

Apparently the officer involved has been stood down, not on leave or restricted to the station, but stood down. That say's in itself that maybe he did use excessive force.

Media reports say stood down on full pay. Sounds like the standard response to any cop who’s been involved in serious incident like this, ie stay home on full pay until the investigation is completed.

[Uncle Fester]

Apparently he was a senior constable.
They have been going on about errors in training but I can not see that is the issue in this case.
You mostly learn from experience and IMO a senior constable would have that including common sense.

Nevertheless dementia is a big thing in Australia and the leading cause of death here.
A lot more needs to be learnt and done in dealing with these people as well as finding out WHY it is so common here.

[wotnot]

Nevertheless dementia is a big thing in Australia and the leading cause of death here.

Not quite, but getting there....(wrong pronoun...'a' leading cause of death, not 'the' =)



...the problem here is the establishment's 1.3 star rating...




Chatting with my (86yo) mother about this, she posited an interesting hypothetical... 'If a 95yo person with dementia had some lucid moment, and in that instant decided they'd rather be dead than live out their mind-addling condition year after year, grabbed a knife and threatened to kill themselves ... would anyone take them seriously, or does everyone think that's the dementia talking?' ....and she went on with 'Maybe the reality is, the copper did her a favor?'

[Uncle Fester]

Not quite, but getting there....(wrong pronoun...'a' leading cause of death, not 'the' =)

For the female population it most certainly is and the difference to the second most common death cause is staggering.

According to:


Dementia including Alzheimer’s disease was the leading cause of death for females, accounting for 9,325 (12%) deaths, followed by coronary heart disease (6,547; 8.5% of deaths).

Women do live longer therefore more time for the brain to go downhill but the far lower coronary heart disease factor remains astonishing.