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Thread: Life and times of a black hole

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    I would think that's very unlikely tytower. What you're saying is that these stars are forming in the galactic bulge and the source of the gas is the black hole.
    The black hole occupies a very small region while these stars are spread out evenly in a disk with a diameter of about 30,000 light years.
    This isn't aligned with the poles, else you would expect to see these stars roughly aligned with the polar/quasar X-ray jets.

    A more realistic explanation is that they have migrated in from the outter disk, or they have formed in situ by some other means which has caused the gas to condense. Shock waves etc in the galactic bulge.
    This is what the article is suggesting. Given that there are about 30 billion stars in this region, 35 stars that look out of place doesn't seem all that unusual.
    The fact that they form a disk suggests they have a different story from other bulge stars.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tytower View Post
    Came across this recently

    There is a picture in the link



    Now they will have to try fit their model to the new facts . I still think it more likely that new star stuff is being produced and sprayed out of the black mass's poles as it spins
    This is beyond me but I had the impression whatever was 'swallowed' by a 'Black Hole' was forever 'NO MORE' but now we have 'something' spewing out 'Star Matter' from 'NOTHING'??
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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    Black holes do indirectly lose engery and mass Gordon. As well as being rather bright in X-ray emissions.
    The X-rays in the form of polar jets which make a black hole a quasar (behaviour) and this is a conservation of angular momentum, though I don't know how much is emitted compared to matter and energy consumed.
    The same thing with matter in the accretion disk, in order for matter to fall in it has to lose kinetic energy.
    It can do it in a number of ways. The most simple to understand is a gravitational sling shot. Two bodies in orbit around each other, one receives additional velocity and escapes while the other decreases orbital velocity and falls in.
    Braking radiation (synchrotron radiation) is the other way, when a particle is accelerated (decelerated) it emits a photon.
    In the case of a black hole, material can fall it because it loses energy as photons (as X-rays) which allows material to fall in.

    If the mater does not lose energy, then it can never fall in, just orbit forever.
    There is also another way, gravitational radiation. But this is provided that gravity waves exist. If they do not, then this method isn't possible.

    There is also the matter of quantum entanglement. If I am in orbit around a black hole and I say throw some garbage into the black hole be decelerating it (and accelerating my ship) after the garbage crosses the event horizon,
    I have more kinetic energy than I spent when the garbage and my ship parted ways.

    I got energy out of the black hole in exchange for putting matter in.
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    If the mater does not lose energy,
    I'm not sure what Mater has to do with it... Sorry.......
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    A black hole is not nothing . It is a very big dense something . The heaviest objects in the universe in fact with all their mass compressed because of the immense gravity , so dense creating such gravity that light cannot escape . Billions of times bigger than our sun in some cases !

    Thats why I prefer to call them "Black Masses"

    So Gordon my suggestion is that in fact matter does get ejected by the huge pressures in there . The logical place for any ejections would be the weakest points which if you look at magnetic fields and auroras etc would suggest the poles. Some objects are like lighthouses and put out regular pulses . One can only speculate at how fast that matter travels out or what it might look like. We are not likely to ever see one.
    Last edited by tytower; 29-10-15 at 10:18 PM.
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    Black holes may actually be doors between different dimensions and or other universes, just like stars, the problem is science is stuck in an ideological big bang single event approach to the universe, when the unfolding facts show the opposite. No big bang, just a collision of dimensions/universes which produce holes between them and the results are stars letting in matter from elsewhere and black holes letting matter from this universe into others.

    Our understanding of physics revolves around the ideology of single point existence from nothing, when it may well be our universe is a creation of other dimensional interaction and things like dark matter and dark energy are just unfathomable parts of other dimensions. No different to how an ant would see the sky, it lives within a different dimension understanding to us, yet within the same one and there is no reason that our universe is not like an ants, a very small aspect of a much larger one. Every time they make an astrophysical claim, not long after they find something which makes their theories look really dumb.

    This is borne out by each new discovery that don't fit their physics in any way and the claim there was nothing before the big bang, has been squashed again with fact and this link drives that point home, as does every other new discovery they make revolving around out universe. It won't be long before they discover light is one of the slowest things in the universe, but to do that, they have to drop their ridiculous ideological insanities of one event beginnings, big balls of gas and black holes that crush things to microscopic size and stores them. None of the claims they are locked into are even logical, unless you are an ideologue, then any fantasy makes sense compared to reality.


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    Quote Originally Posted by tytower View Post
    A black hole is not nothing . It is a very big dense something . The heaviest objects in the universe in fact with all their mass compressed because of the immense gravity , so dense creating such gravity that light cannot escape . Billions of times bigger than our sun in some cases !
    Your terminology is a bit mixed up Tytower.

    "A black hole is not nothing", clearly it's something because you can define it by a gravitational field.
    It has mass and we can define the volume of the event horizon.

    "A very big dense something", No. "big" and "dense" your misinterpreting. (I'll explain why below)

    "heaviest objects in the universe", heavy is not a the correct word, since heavy is a relative term. It's basically the measure force between two objects, and you're only defining one. You're thinking of "mass".

    "all their mass compressed because of the immense gravity" And here you used the word mass, when you meant "volume", and when you're volume is compressed (to make it very small) it's no longer "big".

    "so dense" .... ok, time to learn what "density" actually is. Density = mass / volume

    So, we can measure black holes mass via their gravity and their volume, size and shape from material orbiting them.
    some examples...
    H1821+643 = 60 x 10^39kg with a radius of 347750000km
    Sagitarius A* = 8.6 x 10^36kg with a radius of 31297500km
    Cygnus X-1 = 30 x 10^30kg with a radius of 26km
    Neutron Star = 4 x 10^30kg with a radius of 12km

    So time to work out the volumes of each kind of black hole and the neutron star.
    H1821 = pi x 347750000^3 = 132114744340970743263476633 km^3
    Sag A* = pi x 31297500^3 = 96311648624567671839074 km^3
    Cyg X1 = pi x 26^3 = 55217 km^3
    Neutron = pi x 12^3 = 5429 km^3

    time for density
    60 x 10^39 kg / 132114744340970743263476633 km^3 = 454e+12 kg/km^3
    8.6 x 10^36 kg / 96311648624567671839074 km^3 = 893e+12 kg/km^3
    30 x 10^30 kg / 55217 km^3 = 543e+24 kg/km^3
    4 x 10^30 kg / 5429 km^3 = 736+24 kg/km^3

    The density of water is 1e+12 kg/km by comparison
    You can see that the more massive a black hole gets, the less dense it gets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spook View Post
    Black holes may actually be doors between different dimensions and or other universes, just like stars, the problem is science is stuck in an ideological big bang single event approach to the universe, when the unfolding facts show the opposite. No big bang, just a collision of dimensions/universes which produce holes between them and the results are stars letting in matter from elsewhere and black holes letting matter from this universe into others.

    Our understanding of physics revolves around the ideology of single point existence from nothing, when it may well be our universe is a creation of other dimensional interaction and things like dark matter and dark energy are just unfathomable parts of other dimensions. No different to how an ant would see the sky, it lives within a different dimension understanding to us, yet within the same one and there is no reason that our universe is not like an ants, a very small aspect of a much larger one. Every time they make an astrophysical claim, not long after they find something which makes their theories look really dumb.

    This is borne out by each new discovery that don't fit their physics in any way and the claim there was nothing before the big bang, has been squashed again with fact and this link drives that point home, as does every other new discovery they make revolving around out universe. It won't be long before they discover light is one of the slowest things in the universe, but to do that, they have to drop their ridiculous ideological insanities of one event beginnings, big balls of gas and black holes that crush things to microscopic size and stores them. None of the claims they are locked into are even logical, unless you are an ideologue, then any fantasy makes sense compared to reality.


    Unfortunately this is the sort of thinking that is bred and perpetuated by a large non-reflecting mass being called a black hole. The ant analogy really does not do it justice . A cell in our body might be better , or a cell at the deepest part of the ocean perhaps .

    Two things are sure . You will definitely enjoy the next Star Wars production and if you tried to skip through a black hole you would never be seen again by anything.
    Last edited by tytower; 01-11-15 at 05:01 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tytower View Post
    Unfortunately this is the sort of thinking that is bred and perpetuated by a large non-reflecting mass being called a black hole. The ant analogy really does not do it justice . A cell in our body might be better , or a cell at the deepest part of the ocean perhaps .

    Two things are sure . You will definitely enjoy the next Star Wars production and if you tried to skip through a black hole you would never be seen again by anything.
    The ant analogy is fitting because it relates to a dimensional scenario all can see and understand, unlike a internal biological or ocean based one.

    The name black hole is misleading, as is a star being a ball of gas and star wars or any other fiction representation does give many deluded clones a distorted understanding. However I'm not into that crap, but do accept some fictional scenarios become fact as reality is unveiled to us.

    Of course if you entered a black hole you'd never be seen again, unless you can go against the flow and if the other side of a black hole is represented by stars, then survival would be zero.

    From our understanding, travel between universes or dimensions would seem more logical using voids, which are more than likely open gaps between universes and inert to matter transfer. So with some form of force it may be possible to safely move from one universe to the other through a void. I would be inclined to think once we understand dark matter and energy, it will be easy to transit our universe and enter others. But, we have to stop clinging to ideological single point beginnings of everything, which is pure fantasy, before we begin to understand what we are part of.

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    Copy and paste for some one a bit smarter than me to comment about
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    I notice in a lot of the illustrations and comments by "scientists" looking at black masses there is a leaning toward my theory of matter being ejected from the poles of black holes all the time . Such a possible scene might be as below.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    Copy and paste for some one a bit smarter than me to comment about
    I don't think they know whats going on at all. This bit
    "Supermassive black holes don't give off any light themselves, but they are often encircled by disks of hot, glowing material. The gravity of a black hole pulls swirling gas into it, heating this material and causing it to shine with different types of light. Another source of radiation near a black hole is the corona. Coronas are made up of highly energetic particles that generate X-ray light, but details about their appearance, and how they form, are unclear."
    shows the writer sticking to the no light out theory but I disagree . All the pressure of confinement in a black mass would have to be focused magnetically at the poles so I reckon material of some sort comes out of the poles all the time, we just dont know how to see it yet.
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    All the pressure of confinement in a black mass would have to be focused magnetically at the poles so I reckon material of some sort comes out of the poles all the time, we just dont know how to see it yet.
    Logic would dictate that if something enters a "room" something must, therefore, be displaced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lsemmens View Post
    Logic would dictate that if something enters a "room" something must, therefore, be displaced.
    Bloody big room !

    Found this bit of recent astronomy news too at

    Noted this

    The recently discovered inferno is about 200 times more powerful than a typical exploding star, or supernova, and 570 billion times brighter than our sun
    Which means to me the Black mass at the center of that galaxy was possibly up to 570 Billion times the size of our sun . Now whos a big bright boy then ?.
    Last edited by tytower; 15-01-16 at 02:33 PM.
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    The Center of our Galaxy - Our Black Mass -The closest black hole to our sun and us.
    In infa red
    Explanation: The center of our Galaxy is a busy place. In visible light, much of the Galactic Center is obscured by opaque dust. In infrared light, however, dust glows more and obscures less, allowing nearly one million stars to be recorded in the featured photograph. The Galactic Center itself appears on the left and is located about 30,000 light years away towards the constellation of the Archer (Sagittarius). The Galactic Plane of our Milky Way Galaxy, the plane in which the Sun orbits, is identifiable by the dark diagonal dust lane. The absorbing dust grains are created in the atmospheres of cool red-giant stars and grow in molecular clouds. The region directly surrounding the Galactic Center glows brightly in radio and high-energy radiation, and is thought to house a large black hole.






    This is from
    Last edited by tytower; 19-01-16 at 08:27 PM.
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    I see the idea of a perpetual existence of the bits and pieces individually is finally starting to take hold in the Astronomy world.
    See here for a bit on Hubbles recent shot




    This was the paragraph that caught my eye.
    Unfortunately, the lifecycle of a Wolf–Rayet star is only a few hundred thousand years — the blink of an eye in cosmic terms. Despite beginning life with a mass at least 20 times that of the sun, Wolf–Rayet stars typically lose half their mass in less than 100,000 years. And WR 31a is no exception to this case. It will, therefore, eventually end its life as a spectacular supernova, and the stellar material expelled from its explosion will later nourish a new generation of stars and planets.
    Last edited by tytower; 28-02-16 at 07:14 AM.
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    Solar winds being looked at more closely produce ejected plasmas . I have oft said I think under the extremes of a black mass what goes on is not known but multiply the effects by billions of the magnetic interactions of these two solar wind production areas of the sun and then tell me there would not be material being ejected at a massive rate by a black mass.

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    Two super-massive black masses interact in this artists impression of what is happening there. Interesting as it appears that stars are not being formed there according to the authors . My own thought would be that formation is going on but the light produced by the heated gas makes the star light indistinguishable.

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    You're misreading what is being said again Tytower.
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    This is an interesting study of temperatures and pressures inside our planet . Extrapolate that to what the sun would experience and then imagine what would be going on in a black mass billions of times larger and you will get a feel for the immensity of the temps and pressures involved

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