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Thread: Life and times of a black hole

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    My contribution to this topic, copy and paste (not stupid enough to post and show every one how dumb i am)
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    That's pretty hard when you've got the big T in a thread
    He's got me blocked so he can't see the jokes I make about him.
    But he's shot himself in the foot because he doesn't get to see the good shit I post.
    The universe looks rosey when you wear rose coloured glasses.

    Anyhow, this week's interesting information that tytower will miss is the core temperature of various objects in the universe.
    The Earth's core temperature is about 6000 Kelvin This is a similar temperature to the surface of the sun or a conventional explosive like TNT.
    Jupiter's core temperature is about 24,000 Kelvin. Similar to the temperature of an atomic bomb exploding.
    The sun's core temperature is about 27 Million Kelvin.
    Blue giant stars have core temperatures up to 40 Million Kelvin
    The temperature of white dwarfs when they form is about 100 million Kelvin
    next step up is a neutron star with a formation temperature of about 100 billion Kelvin.

    And that brings us to then end of the line, A black hole. It's temperature is Zero Kelvin.
    Why? Because any attempt to measure it results in zero. Since nothing can escape, not even heat, black holes are cold.

    The bigger the black hole, the colder it is.
    If that doesn't make sense, don't worry it's just a matter of how you think about it.
    Smaller black holes evaporate quicker than larger black holes through hawking radiation if it exists.
    Small black holes will be about 0.0001 Kelvin and big black holes 0.0000001 Kelvin.

    You'd think that for somebody who loves black holes so much, Tytower might get his understanding straight.

    So, outside of the black hole we have some pretty hot property.
    The accretion disk gets to temperatures of about 100 million Kelvin.
    Quasars have a temperature of about 10 trillion Kelvin. (Though they are very directional).

    And if you're wondering if there is an upper limit, there is !
    0 Kelvin is absolute zero
    1.42 x 10^33 Kelvin is the Planck Temperature or Absolute hot.
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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  • #83
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    1.42 x 10^33 Kelvin is the Planck Temperature or Absolute hot.
    No allowed........sorry.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    More reading for black hole theorists
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    allover -I movedfrom your URL to a side one to find this

    Now thats april 16 so very interesting
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    I would venture a guess .
    The spiral galaxy in this first picture has one black mass at its center


    The bar type spiral galaxy has two black masses coming together at the center which will eventually combine completely


    This perhaps a barred spiral galaxy from a different angle



    And this perhaps the start of a spiral galaxy with one or more black masses pulling it together
    Last edited by tytower; 21-11-16 at 08:33 PM.
    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues that are best done by a central body in the country to protect it from foreign invasion.State Governments and Local Councils should be abolished to stop the duplication and waste of funds.

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    So the search for Gravitational waves resumes as the revamped LIGO system starts looking again. When two black masses come together it is thought that the gravitational wave produced can be detected and indeed they think they did detect such a wave on three separate occassions last run. Lets see whats out there!




    As a note, they are hoping to detect waves from Neutron stars also. They are much smaller lighter solar masses which have not passed into the black mass threshholds. They have not detected any waves of these yet.

    Last edited by tytower; 01-12-16 at 07:54 PM.
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    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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    So stars fall into black masses too it seems

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    There are still Nutters out there getting published with crap like this because they can supply some matamatical mumbo jumbo or base it on quantum physics


    AMERICAN JOURNAL OF SCIENTIFIC AND INDUSTRIAL RESEARCH
    © 2016,Science Huβ,
    ISSN: 2153-649X, doi:10.5251/ajsir.2016.7.4.95.97
    Division of Black Hole Creates New Universe
    Herzel Laor
    2975 Lafayette Drive, Boulder, CO 80305, USA
    h2laor@yahoo.com
    ABSTRACT
    This paper attempts to harmonize the physical understanding of the big bang and black holes
    with a new hypothesis of “Division.” The hypothesis postulates that when a black hole is created
    due to a gravitational collapse, the space and matter inside the black hole are “pulverized” into
    much finer grained space and matter in a new Universe that is created inside the black hole, and
    that the scale of “pulverization” is the information content of the black hole. The hypothesis
    removes the singularities associated with black holes and the big bang and suggests a new
    understanding of the relation of the big bang to black holes. The Division hypothesis provides
    reasonable numerical results for our local Universe.
    The Division Hypothesis: The Division hypothesis
    postulates that a small volume in a black hole, just
    before it gravitationally collapses, is transformed after
    the collapse into a very large volume inside a new
    Universe that is created inside the black hole. The
    volumes are measured in Plank dimensions in both
    Universes, outside and inside the black hole. The
    plank dimensions are not equal in the two Universes,
    but are related trough the Division scale.
    Universe. For clarity, the original Universe that
    includes the black hole will be called the
    encompassing Universe, and the new Universe that
    is created inside the black hole will be called the
    encompassed Universe.
    In order to evaluate the common-sensibility of the
    Division hypothesis, the spatial size of an atom or a
    small molecule in a black hole that is part of the
    encompassing Universe will be compared to the size
    of a galaxy or a small galaxy group in the
    encompassed Universe. Each of these sizes are
    measured in the relevant Plank lengths. However, as
    we can only make observations in our own Universe,
    calculations will be made using examples from our
    Universe for both material that exist in the
    encompassing Universe and material that exist in the
    encompassed Universe, assuming a similar structure
    of the encompassing and the encompassed
    Universes.
    Let us consider a single Planck volume inside of a
    black hole that has just gone through a gravitational
    collapse. The Division hypothesis stipulates that this
    Planck volume is divided into some number of new
    volumes. There is only one pure number associated
    with a black hole - it is the maximum amount of
    (1)
    entropy, the Bekenstein-Hawking entropy SBH ,
    measured in units of information bits, available in it or
    on its surface. Therefore, the hypothesis stipulates
    that each Planck volume is divided into SBH new
    Planck volumes. The hypothesis also stipulates that
    all mass, energy and quantum numbers associated
    with each Planck volume are divided and distributed
    among the newly generated new Planck volumes.
    When space is Divided, so must do all the quantum
    numbers of material that happen to be in the black
    hole upon collapse. As a simple way of accounting
    for the quantum numbers, the number of baryons will
    be compared in the two Universes.
    The Division will create, internally to the black hole, a
    new Universe with material distributed in a shape
    somewhat resembling the material that was originally
    inside the black hole just before the collapse,
    however with greater spatial resolution. A simple
    example could be an atom inside the black hole,
    which upon the collapse is Divided into a galaxy in
    the new Universe. A supermassive black hole has
    rather low density where molecules can exist, and
    upon collapse, its interior evolves into structures of
    galaxy groups and clusters that we see in our
    For numerical evaluation, a supermassive black hole
    that exists in the encompassing Universe is
    considered. A small molecule composed of two
    atoms in this black hole is used as an example of
    material in the encompassing Universe before
    Division. A pair of large Galaxies in a group, such as
    the Milky Way and Andromeda, will be considered as
    an example of material in the encompassed Universe
    after Division. As the Milky Way and Andromeda may
    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues that are best done by a central body in the country to protect it from foreign invasion.State Governments and Local Councils should be abolished to stop the duplication and waste of funds.

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    They stuffed up... It wasn't meant to be "division" but subtraction. Those Blasted flies left their crap on the page.

    What gets me is how they conjure up some of these theories.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Just to remind you . Whats called a "Black Hole is in fact a very dense mass of material that is so dense the earth compressed to that state would sit on a teaspoon. Its black because no light can get out of it or be reflected



    Last edited by tytower; 29-12-16 at 06:09 AM.
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    But black hole's aren't "dense" Tytower.
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    So ignoring this silly persistent knowitall , contrary fool above ,

    I got to considering what would make a galaxy emit microwaves as opposed to light?
    Below is a galaxy in a state of absorbing another less dense galaxy and black mass.




    Its black mass is estimated to have 100 million times more mass than our sun. Thats a lot of matter in one tight ball spinning faster and faster one would assume as matter falls in to it and by the shape of galaxies generally the matter falling all has momentum in one direction in the main thus imparting more speed to the spin.

    At some point it must pass through all the frequencies rotating faster and faster. So it would follow the entire spectrum passing through the radio,light, xray and cosmic rays . Where would that end ? Would the mass not operate in some warped type of centrifugal force at some point pulling the whole thing apart and starting again?

    So in my opinion there we have the big bang theory as it really is .
    A big bang in each galaxy as it expands and contracts over Billions of years.
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    It appears not Tytower.
    I think you've mistaking my intelligence for your own stupidity.

    You've said it lots of times before that black holes are "dense" and they are not.
    What is amusing is that you seem to be completely unable to understand what this means and back up your own simple statement.
    I've asked this question of you because it is easy to prove that some black holes have a high density and others do not.

    So either have your head stuck so far up your own arse that you can now see entire distant galaxies without a telescope
    OR
    You're a colossal idiot.

    I'm pretty sure it's the second but you've done an excellent job at demonstrating both.

    You put a rather lot of effort into avoiding the simple questions I ask of you.
    Maybe if you put the same effort into answering the questions, your posts would be less cut and paste with your incorrect and abstract interpretation of them and more interesting or at least entertaining.

    Of course good science works best when it ignores critics.

    So how about it tytower?
    How about you pick say 5 black holes and tell us how dense each one is?
    Cygnus X-1 and Sagitarus A* would be two good examples to start with.
    You've got a stellar mass and small supermassive black hole. Add to that a couple of really big black holes like 1,5 and 20 billion sm.

    It's pretty simple to calculate the density of each, so you should be able to show your working for the examples and not just cut and paste.
    I don't want to see you continue to demonstrate your ignorance. I want you to show the other members of this forum that you know what you're talking about and can hold an intelligent conversation on a subject you like (black holes).

    Feel free to add some extra examples of other black holes or objects if your feel it necessary.

    Just for comparison you might care to add, 1 Litre of water (stp), the Earth, The Sun, A white dwarf star and a neutron star for comparison.

    How about it Tytower? I'll bet that you can't.

    If you answer the question and give answers and show your working for fives examples of black holes, and the five other material objects.
    And get them correct to lets say 10% (That give you an order of magnitude for error)
    I will press the * button and "add to this users reputation" and give you a positive feedback and I will encourage other readers to do the same.


    HOWEVER - should you refuse and ignore or fail to answer the question. Showing your working for each of the examples, then I will encourage other readers of this thread
    to add a negative reputation if they think you have failed the task and I instead answer the question for you.

    To be fair I would like to give you enough time to answer the questions and respond. I might think you could answer them by this weekend.
    I would also not encourage anybody to give you negative reputation feedback IF you make single mistakes and you realise that and a correction is made either by you, or somebody else and you agree with that correction.

    If I answer the questions (because you can't) and I make a mistake, I would expect somebody point out the error to me and I make the correction or I acknowledge that correction.
    At the very least sensibly debate any difference. Failure to do so should result in negative feedback for me.



    Just ignoring this post should result in restoring your former negative feedback record. (It was impressive how many people disliked you.)
    Just making a half decent effort should get you enough positive feedback to prove that you really care about the subject and not just posting boondoggle.
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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    Look go away - Leave it alone . Don't waste my time . Yoou are an ignorant CLOWN and a TROLL !!
    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues that are best done by a central body in the country to protect it from foreign invasion.State Governments and Local Councils should be abolished to stop the duplication and waste of funds.

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    How is asking you to verify what you say being a troll?

    You're posting in a science thread. You might think that you would uphold simple peer review and welcome critical discussion of your ideas.
    I think what you really want is somebody to agree with you regardless of what you say. Have you considered posting in the Austech religious forum instead?

    Now you're just embarrassed because you've been called to account and you've been exposed for being a spoon bender, not capable of basic high school science and maths.

    While you continue to post pseudoscience in this science thread, you'll find I'll be here to help prevent you spreading bullshit.
    Last edited by trash; 04-01-17 at 12:01 AM.
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    There seems always to be someone around in the scientific world that insists on worrying us with world destruction .Don't worry Superman will doubtless be the saviour of such lost souls.

    Its interesting though that Scientists are spending more time looking and thinking about material coming out of a "Dark Mass" and what happens to it.

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    I won't pretend to know anything about all this stuff so I don't know who's right and who's wrong.
    But can we knock off the name calling and fighting.

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    No name calling here WhiteOx.
    Tytower just gets upset when he is asked to prove what he says.
    Most of it is just cut and paste with his opinion. Again, nothing wrong with that, but when something he says is incorrect and he is questioned on it, he becomes abusive.
    It's a repeated behaviour. He has made no attempt to resolve his anger issues.

    Now sure, I might poke him with a stick every now and then but it is only because he uses the anger to intimidate other members of the forum from questioning him.
    And that is the real issue I have with his behaviour.

    All my responses on this subject (and others) have been on topic.

    On this topic of black holes he has made the claim that black holes are dense.
    I have said they are not, and I have given Tytower the chance to prove they are. The response has been abuse.
    I have even gone out of my way to literally hand him a win.
    That is if you understand the topic of black holes, you will be familiar with their mass in solar masses or kilograms.
    You can then determine the radius of a black hole by either measuring how fast, how long (and how far) material travels around the black hole by measuring them.
    There is of course a very simple method for doing this theoretically. Just calculate the schwarzschild radius from the mass and use that.
    Now we know the mass and the radius we can use both of these to determine the density of a black hole.

    Tytower appears to be unaware of basic trigonometry and I suspect his anger is a result of being embarrassed at not knowing such simple things and prevents him from learning them.


    Then answer to the question of the density of black holes depends on their mass.
    Small black holes have high densities similar to neutron stars.
    But as the mass of a black hole gets bigger so does the schwarzschild radius and the density of bigger black holes is lower.
    r = (2GM)/(C^2)

    There comes a point where the mass of a black hole is so big, and it's radius proportionally bigger that it's density becomes low. less than water. (it would float)
    This happens at a mass of about 2x10^35kg well into the supermassive black hole range.


    And that's all Tytower really had to say. That black holes below that mass are considered to have a high density, higher than ordinary non degenerate matter.

    Above that mass they're not very dense at all, and the really big ones if you could put them in a party balloon would float.
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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