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Thread: Life and times of a black hole

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    here is another really big one.!



    "If we had this monster sitting at the centre of our Milky Way galaxy, it would appear 10 times brighter than a full moon. It would appear as an incredibly bright pin-point star that would almost wash out all of the stars in the sky."

    Dr Wolf said the energy emitted from this newly discovered supermassive black hole, also known as a quasar, was mostly ultraviolet light but also radiated x-rays.

    "Again, if this monster was at the centre of the Milky Way it would likely make life on Earth impossible with the huge amounts of x-rays emanating from it," he said.
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    Tytower obviously missed Allover's post of the same black hole.

    This black hole is ~20 billion solar masses @ ~2 billion years old.
    Ton618 is ~60 billion solar masses @ ~4 billion years old.
    S5 0014+81 ~40 billion solar masses @ ~4 billion years old.
    H1821+643 ~30 billion solar masses @ ~10 billion years old.
    H1821+643 ~20 billion solar masses @ ~13 billion years old.

    So while this is only a very small sample size, there is a general trend in quasar (black hole) sizes. The big ones are really far away, in the early universe.
    There are a lot more smaller supermassive black holes closer (later) in the universe.

    The obvious question is how such black holes can get so big so fast?
    The less obvious is why there aren't any that big in the universe now?
    Most nearby quasar and SMBH's are about 1 billion solar masses.
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    I have been thinking about how matter falls into a black mass.
    Gravity being the convoluted distorted thing it would be getting in or out of there would not be a straight line affair . Rather as it falls it would have an orbit that is "adjusted" as it comes in by the fields of the black mass.

    This site popped up with a computer simulation so I guess we will get a video soon of what they think might happen.




    In the new model, it is the viewing angle of the observer that accounts for differences in the observations. Galaxies are oriented randomly with respect to the line of sight of observers on Earth, who see different aspects of a tidal disruption event depending on its orientation.

    "It is like there is a veil that covers part of a beast," Ramirez-Ruiz explained. "From some angles we see an exposed beast, but from other angles we see a covered beast. The beast is the same, but our perceptions are different."

    The model developed by Dai and her collaborators combines elements from general relativity, magnetic fields, radiation, and gas hydrodynamics. It shows what astronomers can expect to see when viewing tidal disruption events from different angles, allowing researchers to fit different events into a coherent framework.
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    That would be frame dragging Tytower.
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    More reading for you
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    Pictured here is an artist's drawing of a particle jet emanating from a black hole at the center of a blazar.
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    I see Stephen Hawkin's firewall theory is in the course being chucked out . He's dead now so its OK I suppose .

    The "Scientists" are more inclined to tie themselves up in a ball of string !

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    The firewall by no means has ever been a sure thing. It's just one of many considerations.

    Speaking of considerations... string theory is about as speculative as you can get in modern science without venturing into the theoretical wilderness of crank theories. String theory is just one of the many attempts to explain the underlying structure of what we can confirm.

    Now, for the article itself. It appears to be poor journalism and I wonder if it is misquoting Samir Mathur.
    This is what caught my attention... "what would happen if an electron fell into a typical black hole, with a mass as big as the sun."
    Except that black holes don't come in 1 solar mass. They are only 2.77 solar masses and bigger.

    A quick check of the site's other articles, it doesn't appear to be a crank site so I can assume it's an obvious error made by a reporter who doesn't know the subject too well.
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    Black holes are places in space with such immense gravitational pull that not even light can escape once it's captured. Their powerful pull condenses any matter black holes draw in. They are invisible, but scientists have established that black holes can range from tiny to huge, estimations that are based on the behavior of stars and gas surrounding the black hole. how far away is the black hole from the stars and gas not to be affected by the pull of the black hole ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hinekadon View Post
    They are invisible, but scientists have established that black holes can range from tiny to huge.....
    I think you're making the same mistakes that Tytower makes.

    "Tiny to Huge". What are we talking about here? Testicles?
    Tytower often mistakes mass with volume. He says "massive", but means a large volume and then does not put that into context.
    You're making the same mistakes.

    Lets consider the mass of black holes. They don't come in 'tiny'. They have a bottom limit which is 2.77 times the mass of the sun or about 6x10^30kg.
    Though in terms of volume, the smallest black holes have an event horizon of only about 10km diameter. This is tiny when compared to main sequence stars or the size of the galaxy.

    There does not appear to be an upper limit for black holes. The big ones have masses over 20 billion solar masses and some as big as 40 billion.
    They are correctly very massive.
    Their physical diameter however also needs to be put into context. The diameter of their even horizons is only just a bit bigger than the orbit of Nepture.
    On a human scale this is very large but this is still not as big as the biggest stars.

    Our own supermassive black hole Sagitarius A* is not that big. If it were in place of the sun and you could see the disk it would only appear to be about 25 degrees.
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    The site below grabbed my thought with this line
    Initially, the shock wave was moving at millions of kilometers per hour but has slowed considerably, sweeping up surrounding interstellar material.
    Well now think about it ,what would slow down a shock wave in space?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tytower View Post
    Well now think about it ,what would slow down a shock wave in space?
    That's an easy one. Density. An increase in the density of the gas and dust in the interstellar medium is denser.

    Anything the slows down a stream of particles will cause a shockwave as later or trailing particles catch up the the ones in front.
    The particles can be anything from photons to buses. Yes, a stream of buses form shockwaves.
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    Ive said before ,they are gradually coming around to what I think is happening .
    Here's a new one on matter being ejected from a neutron star which is just a shave away from a supermassive black mass.

    I think they behave a bit like a fountain pouring matter out from the poles in a tight stream which only becomes visible when it slows a bit and starts to form into a ball which is a new start . Thats why the new stars are all well out into space from the supermassive black mass.

    Over the eons the accumulated mass at the center from outside the galaxy becomes too large to sustain and explodes outwards starting the whole thing again albeit bigger.

    Jets are narrowly-focused beams of matter and energy that travel outwards at close to the speed of light. They carry away some of the gravitational energy released when matter falls in towards a central object, such as a black hole or neutron star.

    The jets deposit this energy into the surroundings, often at very large distances from the launch point.

    In neutron stars and black holes that are only a few times more massive than the Sun, this energy can be transported many light years away. For supermassive black holes that lie at the centres of galaxies, the jets can carry away energy to hundreds of thousands of light years from the galaxy centre.
    Last edited by tytower; 28-09-18 at 08:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tytower View Post
    Ive said before ,they are gradually coming around to what I think is happening .
    Oh come on. You can't keep saying that. I'm not supposed to make personal jokes about you but you keep saying this and it's hard to keep a straight face.

    Over the eons the accumulated mass at the center from outside the galaxy becomes too large to sustain and explodes outwards starting the whole thing again albeit bigger.
    Nope, doesn't happen. There is absolutely nothing to substantiate that claim.
    No exploding, neutron stars, black holes or galaxies. It doesn't happen.
    There is more evidence to suggest that a space goat is responsible and that you might have a direct ancestral connection to the Golgafrincham Ark Fleet Ship B.

    Keep trying, you're bound to get something right sooner or later if you keep at it. Put in another claim that everybody is agreeing with you and that you were right all along. Mahahaha.


    On the up side, at least we have learned something about magnetic fields and polar jets. Or rather it's confused things a little bit more.
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    So I'm honing my view of supermassive black masses and the galaxies they are part of .

    It seems clear now that the catheryn wheel effect, like the fireworks of old that you nailed to a post, likely shows the same effect outwardly as galaxies as they push material from the central black mass and spin away from that pushing force .

    It seems logical that a supermassive black mass would be ejecting material all the time away from it and would itself be pushed into spinning by the same forces and giving the same outward appearance. Study the image below and thats whats happening.

    The dark matter often referred to is no more than that same ejected star matter gone cool. All of the matter ejected out eventually comes to a halt and eventually starts falling back in ,with some very small part escaping depending on the forces exerted on the galaxy by nearby galaxies with their own supermassive black masses.

    Last edited by tytower; 01-10-18 at 08:15 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tytower View Post
    So I'm honing my view of supermassive black masses and the galaxies they are part of .
    Oh come on.. you can't say things like that without expecting me to make a joke.
    If you keep polishing the rose coloured glasses, they're going to be more reflective than the hubble's primary mirror.

    OK.. to help prevent people learning incorrect information.... everything I quote from you is wrong. and proven to be wrong.

    It seems clear now that the catheryn wheel effect, like the fireworks of old that you nailed to a post, likely shows the same effect outwardly as galaxies as they push material from the central black mass and spin away from that pushing force .
    NO. absolutely not. The spiral arms are nothing more than density waves in the disk of a galaxy. The stars and gas and dust in the galactic disk orbits the center of mass of the galaxy. At no time does material get pushed away from the center of mass. This is like saying that things fall up.

    It seems logical that a supermassive black mass would be ejecting material all the time away from it and would itself be pushed into spinning by the same forces and giving the same outward appearance. Study the image below and thats whats happening.
    NO. Absolutely not. That is not at all what is happening. If you look at the dopler shift of this galaxy, the average movement of stars around the galaxy is orbiting the central bulge. It's not moving in or out or up or down.
    The black hole is not emitting anything in this image. Did you forget that the jets from your above post are perpendicular to the plan (the disk) of the galaxy?
    Doh!

    The dark matter often referred to is no more than that same ejected star matter gone cool.
    No it is not. Dark matter is not baryonic (ordinary matter). Since nobody knows exactly what dark matter is. Rather we know what it is not.
    And it is not what you're describing.

    All of the matter ejected out eventually comes to a halt and eventually starts falling back in
    Completely ignoring Newton's laws of motion. Tytower thinks the laws of physics don't apply to him.

    ,with some very small part escaping depending on the forces exerted on the galaxy by nearby galaxies with their own supermassive black masses.
    So the laws of physics apply to some things but not to others?
    I can't believe that you believe what you say. How do you keep a straight face when you think this shit up?
    I mean it makes me laugh. It's great comedy, but it really is lousy science.

    I found a cool book for you today Tytower. It is printed by BBC ch4 called
    "Stephen Hawking Black Holes. The BBC reith Lectures."
    ISBN 978-0-857-50357-2
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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