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Thread: Life and times of a black hole

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    Which is why I said "theoretically" and also mentioned relativity. Time was when people thought that we'd never fly and that any speed above 30mph would cause your body to explode. Until we can find, and harness, a particle that does transcend light speed we are definitely limited to the speed of light as an absolute. Could you imagine one of the early settlers (convicts) of Aust, suddenly being dumped here in the 21st century? EVERYthing would seem like magic, and impossible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lsemmens View Post
    Which is why I said "theoretically" and also mentioned relativity. Time was when people thought that we'd never fly and that any speed above 30mph would cause your body to explode. Until we can find, and harness, a particle that does transcend light speed we are definitely limited to the speed of light as an absolute. Could you imagine one of the early settlers (convicts) of Aust, suddenly being dumped here in the 21st century? EVERYthing would seem like magic, and impossible.
    Even if we did as you say we do not consist of such unknown particles.

    We already know what particles we consist of and can even predict those we haven't found yet and I am sure you would not enjoy the loss of integrity by being converted to some quantum energy spaghetti thingy in a rotating helix 12 dimensional environment to make use of a hypothetical FTL drive.
    No kidding, our lecturer for applied maths already went though all this with us at UNI in the late 70's.

    We baby boomers(and before) had already laid down the framework for everything we have developed in the 21st century.
    What we do now is proving or disproving all that(mostly Einstein based) and sometimes turning what we already knew into something useful.

    You can not even remotely compare that to the time before Leonardo Da Vinci designed a helicopter because the only explanation for Life the Universe and Everything back then was God.

    I can only think of one mystery where we could still be stuck in those old days and that is dark matter.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 12-11-21 at 02:09 PM.
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    Yeah, I'm going to say Theoretical does not equate to possible.
    "Time was when people thought..." Those thoughts were based on ignorance. They did not have evidence or reasoning to support the claim.
    Relativity on the other hand says, no faster than light.
    If you want to invoke Tachyons you either need to demonstrate their existence or explain how they exist and fit into the framework of relativity.

    "...being dumped here in the 21st century...."
    And I can repeat this experiment and take you from now to 2150. You're going to see magic. But you're also going to be capable of understanding how the magic works when explained to you.

    You can do this with just 30 years. You could show me a samsung S9 in 1990 and I would think it was black magic. But at the same time you could hand me the white paper for it and all its components and I would have no trouble understanding how it works. What we know now doesn't directly negate the evidence that leads to it.
    The classic example is Newtonian Physics and Relativity. The latter doesn't negate the prior. It compliments it and builds on it.
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    Heavy metals like gold and uranium in my opinion are the most likely matter ejected from a black mass from the poles ,faster than light and probably they start to slow down at some point far away from the black mass and become visible again as they rain through galaxies like the milky way .

    This leads me to speculate that all gold on earth is from such sources in our galaxy whether we have just one black mass or many in the Milky Way. Also I wonder at the size of the nuggets ejected or conglomerated in space as to whether there would be a size limit ?
    Possibly not but it has been shown that most alluvial gold in rivers and such usually originates from one particular area . Dunno whether that's scientifically correct though . There seems to be lots of it mixed with quartz so that points mostly to volcanic actions ?

    Enriched uranium ,mm I'd like to be enriched by some quick gold nugget finds. You will tell me if you find any won't you.
    Last edited by tytower; 18-11-21 at 08:02 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tytower View Post
    ...mm I'd like to be enriched by some quick gold nugget finds. You will tell me if you find any won't you.
    Of course it is my pleasure.

    I found most of my Gold in the Perth Mint and later the occasional nugget on Ebay.
    Considering I 'found' most of it around 2005 for the cost of $600 an oz and today it is $1800 oz, I have additionally 'found 2 ounces' for every ounce I initially 'found' doing absolutely nothing.

    If I had waited for warp speed gold nuggets flying down from space, ejected from a black hole I would still be a poor man.

    I hope you read the article in your link.
    It suggests that heavier elements may be formed and ejected from the accretion disk, not out of the black hole.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 18-11-21 at 11:13 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    If you want to invoke Tachyons
    Don't mention tachyons, I mentioned them once, nearly got away with it!
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    A new player has entered the game!

    As I have said many times . We have no idea of the effects on atoms that type of black mass would have


    It now has shown up as predicted that atoms frozen to absolute zero would tend to be invisible . Given that gold and uranium are extremly dense material this is possibly another reason we can not observe the outpouring streams at the poles clearly.

    Last edited by tytower; 24-11-21 at 07:23 AM.
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    Y'know I am really stumped by the capacity of some people to just blindly believe in a fact even though the obvious truth is staring them in the face . Its like that with religion and I've discussed those sillies here who knock anything that does not follow what their preacher told them after speaking to God that morning at breakfast.

    With some sensible science buffs they accept some crackpots theory about something and stick with it because it sounds good but they have not really thought it through .

    Such is the case with this accretion disk proposal . It all sounds good but on thought...

    As material builds up on the outside of a black mass it increases the gravitational pull of the mass . Any matter that comes into an area around it defined by the "event horizon " will fall in and add to the mass . It takes quite a bit of work mentally to try to visualise this in three dimensional space and the models are useless really . Think it through in your head what this would look like to someone who had just passed the event horizon .

    They ain't coming back out ! They are falling and nothing will stop them . That is where the pressure is and thats where all the ejected matter is coming from . The poles of that mass that they are just about to get smashed on..

    So what's the likelyhood of some matter like an accretion disk existing anywhere inside the event horizon ? Its bunkum again. Outside the event horizon ...possibly but there is nothing coming back out of there so I don't see where it fits . just imaginary bunkum designed to keep the research funds coming.
    Last edited by tytower; 24-11-21 at 08:37 AM.
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  • #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by tytower View Post
    A new player has entered the game!

    As I have said many times . We have no idea of the effects on atoms that type of black mass would have


    It now has shown up as predicted that atoms frozen to absolute zero would tend to be invisible . Given that gold and uranium are extremly dense material this is possibly another reason we can not observe the outpouring streams at the poles clearly.

    Anything near the highly energetic accretion disk could never be 1/100,000 the temperature of interstellar space.


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    Ain't it amazing.
    I didn't think I would see it in my lifetime but the proof of the pudding....
    What was previously identified as a gas and dust cloud at the centre of our galaxy actually consists of three very young stars.


    The results open the door to many more fascinating research questions - for example where these young stars come from. The radiation-intensive environment of a supermassive black hole is not necessarily the best place to produce young stars. Pei▀ker concludes, 'The new results provide unique insights into how black holes work. We can use the environment of SgrA* as a blueprint to learn more about the evolution and processes of other galaxies in completely different corners of our Universe.'



    And this one which tries to hold on to the accretion disk theory but is showing similar ejections.

    What the Accretion theory is trying to convince you of is comparable to , if you drop a ball from your hand, before it hits the ground an accretion disk stops it and swirls it around and around the earth an inch above it millions of times before gradually dropping it to contact the earth. ?? Do you think thats possible?

    Last edited by tytower; 11-12-21 at 09:03 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tytower View Post
    What was previously identified as a gas and dust cloud at the centre of our galaxy actually consists of three very young stars.
    Ah here we go. Science makes a correction especially on something like this which doesn't come as a surprise and Tytower thinks this is a confirmation.
    Nope. The center of our galaxy is obscured by a lot of gas and dust and there are over a million stars within 100 light years of the galactic center. Finding three new ones not described before really isn't a revelation.

    ]What the Accretion theory is trying to convince you of is comparable to , if you drop a ball from your hand, before it hits the ground an accretion disk stops it and swirls it around and around the earth an inch above it millions of times before gradually dropping it to contact the earth. ?? Do you think thats possible?
    Tytower goes for ... The Chewbacca defense.

    Nobody thinks what you describe is possible because it isn't. But it also doesn't in any way describe what happens to matter accretion.
    Once again Tytower seeks confirmation, not truth.

    Come on Tytower, I expect a higher standard of bullshit from you. The shit you keep posting is really piss poor.
    How about some bat shit crazy ideas about radio rings, dark matter, FRB's or GRB's. I know, what about Muons? Where are all the taus?
    What about ultra high energy cosmic rays or quasars.
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    Well it also looks like we will have lighthouse equivalents in space when we get to go sailing out there . I'm guessing each black mass would have its own characteristics so we should be able to keep off the rocks no matter how fast we are travelling?

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    The number of black holes within the observable Universe at present time is about 40 x 10 power18 (i.e., 4 followed by 19 zeros!).

    40,000,000,000,000,000,000
    ................................^Million
    .........................^Billion
    ..................^Trillion

    Bigger than the US Debt !



    And there are silly buggers that think they all came into existence at once from nothing !
    Last edited by tytower; 21-01-22 at 02:34 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    Hehe, wormholes like FTL is theory.
    Whats your take on the Alcubierre drive?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tytower View Post
    And there are silly buggers that think they all came into existence at once from nothing !
    Oh, and that was ALMOST a new record for Tytower, Two consecutive posts without saying something wrong or stupid.
    But he blew it in the last sentence.

    The current evidence is in favour of the big bang. There's a chance for something different, but you aren't providing good evidence for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by porkop View Post
    Whats your take on the Alcubierre drive?
    I posted a thread about progress on making it, or something similar, work. Who knows?
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    If Creation did occur, how are we to know that it was not created with all of these things to start with? I'm unsure of where I saw it, but stu(pid)toob spring to mind, if we originated from the Big, bang, it begs a few questions. "What went BANG?" and (if the expansionist thoughts are true) into what are we expanding?
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Quote Originally Posted by lsemmens View Post
    "What went BANG?" and (if the expansionist thoughts are true) into what are we expanding?
    Well the first is that a bang is usually some kind of shock wave and usually acoustic. So you'd need to be outside the bang else it might sound like a big whoosh

    Ok... so what are we expanding into. Well, we're not. Because technically there's nothing outside. What you think of as "the bulk" is not 4 dimensional spacetime. It's nothing, it literally doesn't exist. Of course you can think up higher dimensions and a multiverse etc but the general way to describe the bulk is that it is nothing with no volume and no time.

    Also remember that The big bang started out as a ridicule to the start of the universe. It was considered to be a steady state universe.
    Evidence now points to it having a beginning and we can determine when that was.
    Evidence for the expansion of the universe is also pretty straight forward. We look at everything and everything is moving away from everything else.

    All of this is pretty solid evidence but it doesn't mean that there might be another answer for what we're seeing. But in order to prove that you're going to need better evidence than what we have and it cannot contradict what we already know to be true.
    Of course you can flip the logic and say... if the universe is infinite and goes on forever, what is it expanding into?
    That's even more disturbing. Expanding into a void makes little sense because you can't describe the void. Expanding into yourself because there is no void and not getting bigger makes even less sense.

    A good example that has been presented to me a few times by various cranks is Redshift. The simple explanation for Redshift is dust. Dust absorbs the blue light and makes it redder. This is what we see with a sunset. Any senior high school physics student can easily shoot that theory down and propose an experiment to test it. Of course there is so much data available the results are already there to abuse. The redshift happens at all wavelengths, not just light.
    Dust absorbs/attenuates the shorter wavelengths so there would be no blue light at all from large distances so to speak, but that is not the case.
    And the spectral lines from X-ray all the way down to Radio are all redshifted the same amount. That one is done.

    But that's cosmology for you. It's rather confusing and a lot of it doesn't make much sense at first.
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    Quote Originally Posted by porkop View Post
    Whats your take on the Alcubierre drive?
    Well I didn't think it was possible to find something slower than the Australian VFT. 40 years and that train still hasn't left the station.

    Alcubierre drive. That is going nowhere just as fast.
    Of course everybody loves the idea of faster than light travel. But there is less restriction of sublight warp drive.
    But that too is also going nowhere fast.

    Lets just put it in a simple way. Nobody is bending spacetime in any significant way.
    Given that it's more than 100 trillion times more rigid than steel (and that conservative) you can take a rough guess how hard it is going to be to bend it even just enough to make a mass move in any direction. a LOT of energy is required. Quite simply, dumping the waste heat out the tailpipe of your spaceship is going to propel you faster than the gravitational gradient.

    In terms of space propulsion every being used. This one has a 99.999% of never being viable in my books.
    Thermonuclear propulsion is where I'd be placing my bet on possible sci-fi tech. Think The Expanse propulsion. Hydrogen fusion provides the energy and the propellant. But I still give it a 99.99% chance of not happening.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lsemmens View Post
    If Creation did occur, how are we to know that it was not created with all of these things to start with? I'm unsure of where I saw it, but stu(pid)toob spring to mind, if we originated from the Big, bang, it begs a few questions. "What went BANG?" and (if the expansionist thoughts are true) into what are we expanding?
    I would not call it a Bang but rather a rapid inflation of a ballon.

    It is easier to understand this model of the Universe (space time) as the surface of a ballon(possibly doughnut shaped).
    Yes the Universe is here perceived as flat.
    There is NOTHING (no Universe) inside it or outside it, only this surface is the Universe from this macro viewpoint of it.
    This dimension is to be seen as the form of the Universe itself, not the 4 dimensional space time it withholds.

    So an extremely tiny balloon got inflated and all energy and matter expands along this surface as the Universe stretches.
    And it continues to do so today. The galaxies are not actually moving faster per se(within their inertial frame), it is the space between them that is stretching so it appears that they are moving away from each other.
    They are not coming or going anywhere, they are just being stretched apart on this 'balloon surface'.

    This concludes that the Universe has no end and in theory you could end up where you started from if you could beat the speed of expansion with a space craft but practically your starting point will be long gone.

    As the density of the universe is being reduced during to this stretching, Dark Energy or whatever is causing it will win over Gravity(which could otherwise pull it back) so it seems likely it will expand forever.
    So we would be expanding to total darkness and the Big Freeze.
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