Who want's an Alternative Energy Sub Forum.

[z80]

This is the backup battery bank 720AH at 48Volts , each battery is 72KG so a massive 862KG's in this compact space.

I'm thinking about what you said Joey.

Are you sure 720AH is enough to supply all your power needs for two days, in the event of an outage?

Are you talking about selective appliances?

[Joey]

I'm thinking about what you said Joey.

Are you sure 720AH is enough to supply all your power needs for two days, in the event of an outage?

Are you talking about selective appliances?

720AH at 48V is a huge amount of storage , Around 28 KWH at 80% DOD , but keep in mind the grid feed system is producing another 10KWH per Day , that gives us 24KWH each day for 2 days and then after the batteries are flat we can go to selective appliances using the 10KWH per day from the Solar System.

Our avergage usage is 19 to 21KWH per day. ( down from 24 per day when this was first worked out )

Using just the Solar System and Inverter generator through the BU inverter will bring us up to 24KWH + per day running the generator for 8 hours , so even if the grid stayed down for weeks we would be ok and still have power to spare.
I could use the system without the Generator for 2 full days but if I wanted to use the gen as soon as the power fails I could preserve the batteries longer or even recharge them completely.
The way it is mapped out now the Generator will auto start if the batteries get down to 70% DOD and the mains is still down , so there is a lot of redundancy built in.

[z80]

I am interested if you will achieve the 10 kw a day from the panels.

Then again more sunshine in WA would be useful.

I find an 85 watt panel produces 15-20 watts in Victoria.(avarage)

Testing the last cuppla days i think I need another 3 or 4 Kw of panels.

[Joey]

I am interested if you will achieve the 10 kw a day from the panels.

Then again more sunshine in WA would be useful.

I find an 85 watt panel produces 15-20 watts in Victoria.(avarage)

Testing the last cuppla days i think I need another 3 or 4 Kw of panels.

There are several ways of calculating power yield , one of the easiest ways is to download Sunny Design from SMA , you can select your exact panels, Azimuth , Inclination Angle , the type of inverter , city etc.
So my panels are Suntech STP200-18/Uc x 12 and SunnyBoy SB2500 inverter , I have allowed for 0 Deg inclination , Azimuth set to West , (North is the best) .

The calculator Shows an approx yearly energy yield from this combination to be 3694KHW , This is being very conservative and in reality is slightly higher , but all the same allowing for this worst case scenario the daily yield is 10.1KWH

You are right though , WA is the ideal place for Solar .

[z80]

I estimate that you will get half of that in winter....with luck.

Without a solar tracker and the fact that 2400w of panel in practice yields about 1500w in blistering sunshine with Sunnex panels facing north...

Due north facing will deliver about 8 hours of useable charge.West you say?

You need to be consuming a minimum of a Kw/h at all times to have the discharged battery to charge at the same rate.

I reckon maybe 10kw/day in Summer, but down to 5-6 in Winter, if not less.


I'll bet you a slab I am more accurate than the Sunny Design calcs

[Joey]

I estimate that you will get half of that in winter....with luck.

Without a solar tracker and the fact that 2400w of panel in practice yields about 1500w in blistering sunshine with Sunnex panels facing north...

Due north facing will deliver about 8 hours of useable charge.West you say?

You need to be consuming a minimum of a Kw/h at all times to have the discharged battery to charge at the same rate.

I reckon maybe 10kw/day in Summer, but down to 5-6 in Winter, if not less.


I'll bet you a slab I am more accurate than the Sunny Design calcs

That calculation is a yearly average so it does account for winter and summer , I am also using actually figures from a guy 14 houses away who has 20 of the same panels running into a SB3800 , his yield is 11% higher than the Sunny Design says it should be.

Even you just said it , 8 hours at 1500W is 12KWH per day , but as you know blistering sun produces less power as panels become less efficient as they get hot.

Keep in mind the batteries are only backup so wont be constantly discharged , But I know what your saying and my addiction has already told me I need more panels

As I dont drink make that a slab of 200W panels ok hehe

[z80]

That calculation is a yearly average so it does account for winter and summer , I am also using actually figures from a guy 14 houses away who has 20 of the same panels running into a SB3800 , his yield is 11% higher than the Sunny Design says it should be.

Even you just said it , 8 hours at 1500W is 12KWH per day , but as you know blistering sun produces less power as panels become less efficient as they get hot.

Keep in mind the batteries are only backup so wont be constantly discharged , But I know what your saying and my addiction has already told me I need more panels

As I dont drink make that a slab of 200W panels ok hehe

I ran a 2Kw blow heater directly from panels today....(It's my desalinator emulator)

Downloaded the SMA modelling program and it says I am good for 4.5 MW a year...LOL.

Which is 12kw a day....I'll look at that in the coming week and confirm.

Remember that a panel addiction needs a battery addiction, often an inverter upgrade addiction...blah blah blah.

Best to go for the max straight up is my lesson learnt...

[Joey]

hey zed is it true that current batterys can only hold charge for 30 minutes or something along those lines, i am hoping an asian makes some battery thats realitvly cheap and can hold charge for at least 24 - 48 hours

Looks like Zed missed this post and so did I , sorry about that .

Not sure which batteries you are talking about but the ones I have are Pure Gel type that will remain fully charged on the shelf for 12 months dropping from 13.75 to 13.00 Volts , Of course no battery, Gel , SLA , AGM , or Lead Acid should ever be fully discharged and should always be recharge asap after use.
It is not uncommon for a car batteries to die if left fully uncharged for a few days , but the GEL / AGM can be left a lot longer and fully recover.

I think Zed has SLA or AGM batteries there that last almost as long without being recharged.

Standard Lead Acid like car batteries dont hold their charge very well but certainly much longer that 48 hours , if a battery only held charge for 30 minutes it would be a very dead one or a bad quality capacitor .

[Joey]

I ran a 2Kw blow heater directly from panels today....(It's my desalinator emulator)

Downloaded the SMA modelling program and it says I am good for 4.5 MW a year...LOL.

Which is 12kw a day....I'll look at that in the coming week and confirm.

Remember that a panel addiction needs a battery addiction, often an inverter upgrade addiction...blah blah blah.

Best to go for the max straight up is my lesson learnt...

Nice emulator for all sorts of things

12KW a day is a good effort but I dont believe for a minute you are going to settle for that hehe , interested in what you can confirm after the week.

You mentioned a while ago about bringing some wind generators in from OS ,did you ever look more into this or the whole wind power alternative / addition ? Have read some real funny stuff in New groups where some crazy yanks actually believe that all those huge Wind generators are changing global weather patterns haha !! , just want to check that you are not going to change Victorian weather patterns.

[zeke.damien]

hey joey thanks for the response,
i am going to explore the renewable energy area and get some panels inverters and batterys of my own, looking to spend up to around 6000 dollars

dont think i need that much money but lets see how this turns out, might even post some photos of my Work in progress

[z80]

You mentioned a while ago about bringing some wind generators in from OS ,did you ever look more into this or the whole wind power alternative / addition ? Have read some real funny stuff in New groups where some crazy yanks actually believe that all those huge Wind generators are changing global weather patterns haha !! , just want to check that you are not going to change Victorian weather patterns.

Yep....the shipping is the tricky bit.

(400Kg for the one I wanted...the 10Kw one).

I was planning to have already have been there but the whole Olympics crap made flights,accommodation difficult.

Probably go in March now. Gotta go to shake the noodle with the manufacturer.

As a rough guide ...

Aussie distributor for 2kw turbine kit...about $10k
Chinese factory price for same thing..........$2k

Hmmm...the chinese one would have to be pretty bad to pass up, cause it includes the inverter...!

[z80]

hey joey thanks for the response,
i am going to explore the renewable energy area and get some panels inverters and batterys of my own, looking to spend up to around 6000 dollars

dont think i need that much money but lets see how this turns out, might even post some photos of my Work in progress

yeah...sorry mate missed your post.

here are the batteries I settled on, not as flash as Joeys, but excellent sacrificial lambs for a learning curve.

I use the black ones...it's an Australian company, hence my first choice.



They are true deep cycle and retail for $575 each inc GST.
You will need at least four for anything serious....

With four in a 24 volt series/parallel config I found that was enough to supply a house fitted entirely with compact fluoros all year round.

For a desal plant you will need at least 16 of them...

[zeke.damien]

they look like some good battery's now just need to decide on how or what to do to make up a system to be able to handle a few things

[humax300]

Chinese factory price for same thing..........$2k

any links?

[z80]

Chinese factory price for same thing..........$2k

any links?

naturally.......

(is the Pope catholic...?)
(does a one legged duck swim in circles?)



here:- >>>




and

[zeke.damien]

naturally.......

(is the Pope catholic...?)
(does a one legged duck swim in circles?)



here:- >>>




and

that wind generator looks pretty good better than the jaycar or other ones i have seen

[z80]

Finally got some sunshine yesterday.

And got 36 panels up...tried for 40, ran out of roof space

Here's the volts,amps and inverter status displays running directly off the sun driving a 2 kilowatt heater...

[z80]

And the new inverter with the load status display.

She can invert 3 kilowatts easily at 240 volts..

[Joey]

And the new inverter with the load status display.

She can invert 3 kilowatts easily at 240 volts..

Mate the panels look awesome , I have seen some terrible installs with panel all over the place but you have a nice job!

How cool is that inverter !!!! and man your batteries still sitting at 51.3V according to inverter under that load is impressive ! , is there much noise coming from the inverter and how do you think it is going as far getting rid of heat ?

[z80]

No inverter noise at all Joey, it's barely audible and it's very quiet at our place. The inverter has a display for heatsink temperature, but I haven't figured out all the menu options yet...

yeah, all the 2 kilowatts was coming from the panels, so the batteries just acting as a smoothing capacitor.

It was interesting watching the battery load go up and down with cloud cover.
The slightest bit of cloud and the battery amps went up a few amps, only to recover when the sun came back out.

overall...I want another 24 panels...can't get enough of them..