Police Charges

[watchdog]

By now you will all have been notified of the user-pays for alarm responses by the police. I got notified by the two monitoring companies I use but nothing from either the SIR or ASIAL. Another example of excellent customer service. I also notice that they attempt to scare the shit out of you by threatening charges under the Crime Legislation Ammendment if you ring 000 - Gotta love this industry !

[intelliGEORGE]

That has been around for a while in respect to commercial premises;

POLICE ACT 1990 - SECTION 209

Charges payable for false security alarms

(1) If, within any period of 28 days, a member of the NSW Police Force (whether or not the same member) responds on more than one occasion to false alarms from the same security device installed in respect of a building (not being a dwelling), the Commissioner is entitled to payment by an owner of the building of the prescribed charge for each occasion (except the first).

(2) For the purposes of this section, an alarm is to be taken to be a false alarm unless the owner of the building establishes that it was not a false alarm.

(3) The regulations may specify the matters which the Commissioner is to take into account in determining who is to pay the Commissioner the prescribed charge when there is more than one owner of the building.

(4) In this section:
"building" includes part of a building.
"owner", in relation to a building, means:

(a) the owner of the building, or

(b) the occupier of the building.

"prescribed charge" means $200 or such other amount as may be prescribed by the regulations.

[intelliGEORGE]

They must have included residential systems of recent. Everyone's in it to make a buck these days.

[IPAlarms]

Gotta love this industry !

Gotta move towards video verified alarms !

It's so simple - it's not funny. Here's how we do it......

1. We provide the Monitoring Centre with free software that "steals" signals from their PSTN alarm receivers without affecting their normal operations.

2. The software forwards the signal on to our Virtual Monitoring platform that stores a record of each client account and a list of IP cameras within their premises.

3. The Virtual Monitoring platform analyses the alarm signal to find out which, if any of the cameras should be recorded. The client can set which zones trigger recording or which events (Alarm, Arm, Disarm, Bypass, Misc, Trouble).

4. Images are stored safely on the server and sent out as email attachments - usually to the clients mobile device.

5. A mobile web interface is available for clients to quickly log in and view alarm events and images from their mobile device. They can also view live images at any time 24/7.

6. The Monitoring Centre can receive the event images as email attachments or they can access live images for a limited amount of time following an event (with the clients permission). This provides a degree of privacy for the client as operators cannot log in whilst Mrs Jones is, erm...

Anyway, this allows both the client and the Monitoring Centre to visually verify an alarm activation within a reasonable amount of time.

This can easily be improved by the use of IP diallers as recording can commence the moment the panel goes off hook rather than waiting 10-15 seconds for a signal to arrive over PSTN.

The thing that has stopped video verification in its tracks so far is STUPID pricing. Who the hell is going to pay $75 a week for someone to monitor a single camera ? Let's get real guys - there is a huge opportunity for the industry here.

I won't post trade pricing on here, but let's just say that over in the US our prices per camera are so low that the Monitoring Centre get their cut, the installer gets his cut and the client gets his cameras monitored for US$7 per camera per month. That's PER MONTH - not per week.

Any low cost (approx $100) IP camera will do the job as long as it supports snapshots

[Tastech]

you ought to check out the English Coppers they are very strict and charge and quite a few law enforcements in America charge now

In UK first alarm response buy coppers are free 2nd alarm you get written warning , third alarm i think in the preset period a hefty fee and no more attendances to you show them a job sheet from your installer advising fault has been fixed

[z80]

Sounds to me that a smart operator could set the system up to not need a monitoring center at all....

(let the client handle the first line decision)

I would never use one again after having Securisystem crap at our shops a few years ago.

[IPAlarms]

you ought to check out the English Coppers they are very strict and charge and quite a few law enforcements in America charge now

Quite a few areas in the US are now Verified Response only. No video - no response !

In UK first alarm response buy coppers are free 2nd alarm you get written warning , third alarm i think in the preset period a hefty fee and no more attendances to you show them a job sheet from your installer advising fault has been fixed

You forgot to mention that if a customer loses response the installer has to show the police a 3 month period free from false alarms in order to get response back.

[IPAlarms]

Sounds to me that a smart operator could set the system up to not need a monitoring center at all....

(let the client handle the first line decision)

It is popular in the US for an automated recorded message to call premises and ask for a cancellation code, but I've not heard of this being done in Oz. Does anyone do this ?

This does not overcome the problem of a false alarm when nobody is at the premises. In the UK multiple alarms on different zones are required to get a police response. There are also stringent rules on alarm system design, so you can't just place two PIR's next to each other to get multiple alarms.

In the UK, the regulatory bodies send people out every 12 months to inspect 3 installations at random from each approved alarm installer. Police response can only be obtained by installers that are approved.

Like their Aussie counterparts, they would much rather be up a tree pointing their radar guns at motorists and handing out speeding tickets, but at this moment in time a police response to alarms is still available - albeit under Police rules.

Multiple alarms, video footage and a signed confession from a crook still ain't going to get a Queensland copper down from his cool, shady tree.

[z80]

It is popular in the US for an automated recorded message to call premises and ask for a cancellation code, but I've not heard of this being done in Oz. Does anyone do this ?

.

That is such basic stuff...

Just go to jaycar, get an SMS controller kit and wire it up to your panel.

If it goes off you can program it to send you SMS's on your phone almost as they occur.

You can even set the content of the SMS to say..."PIR in kitchen" then "PIR in Garage".

That kit costs about $100 to setup with a Nokia phone.


Like I said...who needs a monitoring company nowadays?

[intelliGEORGE]

Like I said...who needs a monitoring company nowadays?

I have been on pretty much every network there is, business plans, and there is not one network I would trust with transporting my SMS's if they were used for an essential service.

[balun]

anyone that knows the ins and outs of monitoring and the problems that can arise would never rely on an sms generator.

[z80]

I can tell you guys first hand, as an ex customer, that relying on a monitoring company's employees to turn up on a Sunday morning is much less reliable.


usually farmed out to subby guards who couldn't give AF.

Ain't that an accurate assessment?

anyone that knows the ins and outs of monitoring and the problems that can arise would never rely on an sms generator.

Yes mate, a big , fat, LOUD alarm indoors is the best thing I found.

[watchdog]

I can tell you guys first hand, as an ex customer, that relying on a monitoring company's employees to turn up on a Sunday morning is much less reliable.


usually farmed out to subby guards who couldn't give AF.

Ain't that an accurate assessment?






Yes mate, a big , fat, LOUD alarm indoors is the best thing I found.

The thing is Z that whenever the discussion about monitoring everyone becomes fixated on response. I don't get into the response side of things for exactly the reasons you state - that is where it all falls in a heap. If my customers want a response I will arrange it for them & take no further part. But a monitored system is sooo much more than response. If they supply a good list of contacts & they ALL end up being uncontactable then the problem is theirs & that is made clear to them.
Monitoring is just as much about system integrity.All those system alarms - low or flat backup battery
zones failing to seal
faulty reeds / PIRs or damaged cable
medical / duress alarms
smoke alarms
& so on & so forth

But at you said if you are relying on monitoring for a personal response then yes there is a fair chance you could be wasting your money.

[Security-Tech]

Ive been in the industry 18 and half years, I have never in my 15 years of bureauing had any issue as you state, and our business thrives on monitoring, our clients hold the highest regard for our company in the region.
We have over 950 monitored alarm systems, so I don't think your argument is valid Z80, otherwise Id be out of business along with the other thousand companies in the country. You just seem to be lousy and don't want to part with your lunch money by the sounds of things for your own peace of mind and sense of security.

I would say Z80, that because your in the minority group, that you don't matter to any of us because your argument over being burnt by the first company you used is a little shallow,

But that's my opinion, I'm just judging you on face (virtual face) value form your retort...Nothing personal, just an observation merely.



A true security company can and will provide you with the service and prompt response you require, if you look around and don't just fall for the "free" alarm spiel, or other nonsense sales pitch's.

[Security-Tech]

"Big, fat, LOUD alarms" can be disabled and mean nothing in today's age..

Sorry if I appear to be picking on you.

[Security-Tech]

That is such basic stuff...

Just go to jaycar, get an SMS controller kit and wire it up to your panel.

Sure, real smart idea! YOu sure your not from QLD and voted for LABOUR- (The smart state LOL)

SMS as many have acknowledged, is not a RELIABLE communications method for security communications, does your mobile ring, no ITs beeps or plays a silly tone, ON YA!

SMS could be used as a backup path, but Surely It is not advisable to use it solely as your only communications path for your security system.

Like I said...who needs a monitoring company nowadays?

1. The same people who cant get messages when their shop gets broken into on xmas or new years and the networks down for 8 hours!
2. The millions of home and business's and SMART individuals out there that actually value their property, possessions and family.

2a. Monitoring has been around for 30 + years, who needs it, Well in your closed mind NO ONE yeah RIGHT!

[z80]

Sure, real smart idea! YOu sure your not from QLD and voted for LABOUR- (The smart state LOL)

SMS as many have acknowledged, is not a RELIABLE communications method for security communications, does your mobile ring, no ITs beeps or plays a silly tone, ON YA!!

your insults ignored.

As I recall the monitoring company rings me on the same phone to ask me if I want a multiple PIR trip attended to with a guard?
They use the same phone network to do that.....

SMS could be used as a backup path, but Surely It is not advisable to use it solely as your only communications path for your security system.
!

what..use a monitoring company as the only primary path instead?

staffed by high turnover employees who are paid peanuts?

1. The same people who cant get messages when their shop gets broken into on xmas or new years and the networks down for 8 hours! !

Yep..and the security company is busy ringing around trying to find a guard interested in doing a callout...cause they don't want to pay the penalty rates.
We all use the same phone networks....

2. The millions of home and business's and SMART individuals out there that actually value their property, possessions and family.!

And the millions of pensioners and other vulnerable people caught by ripp off merchants selling an over priced chinese panel to people who really have no need for monitoring.
Or the robbers who laugh at the response times of the monitoring company appointed response staff.

insurance is a wonderful thing...works for me

2a. Monitoring has been around for 30 + years, who needs it, Well in your closed mind NO ONE yeah RIGHT!

insult ignored..

The best advice is bars on windows and a good insurance policy.

[IPAlarms]

Horses for courses.

Whether you go for self monitoring or operator monitoring, in this day and age you should definately consider video as a means of verification.

[z80]

Horses for courses.

Whether you go for self monitoring or operator monitoring, in this day and age you should definately consider video as a means of verification.

yep, and it can be done pretty economically as well.

A picture tells a thousand words as they say..

[redozqld]

Conversations like this always seem to end up with people calling eachother names accross the great internet cloud.

Installers :-

Monitored Alarms -- Give great peace of mind to some people, where as other see it as one less packet of smoke/cafe late/cream puff each week. Sure they cost, but they help support companies and communities, when the alarm is triggered, you are not relying on people in the area to hopefully call you, if they have your details, to make sure that all is okay.

Local Alarms -- Fine if you want to go down this path, but after 12 years of working in Electronic Security, what I've found is that local alarms are only there to keep insurance companies happy, and people that are only interested in this will only ever be interested in this. They dont want to spend any money on anything that they percieve as something they dont need. And are usually the ones that call up before a major holiday and say '

'We are heading to Expensive Location XYZ for 14 Days, but the alarm has been turned off for the last 11 months, and when I turn it on it doesnt work, you need to come out within the next 2 hours, as I am going out tonight, and wont be available tomorrow as I am leaving for Location XYZ, If you dont get out here now, I will call CBA Alarms, and get them to come out, as they have been chasing my business all year'

Personally Monitored Alarms -- Personally I think these are a joke, I set one up recently, which is typical, I want the alarm to dial my mobile. You set it up, then when the alarm is triggered, it cant get through because they are at the movies/dinner/weekend away etc...

The biggest problem is that people dont take security seriously, they are the first to complain when it doesnt work, but dont want to spend anything on it...

Horses for Courses... but really I dont really care... In the end you will all do what you think is right, and blame someone else when it doesnt work....

ReD