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Thread: Jaycar MkII Teething

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    Senior Member allstarnz's Avatar
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    Default Jaycar MkII Teething

    Ok, so i've built up my MKII finally, full build, not lean and mean.

    At the moment, all i've done is plugged 12V DC in via a mains adaptor.

    According to the book, I should be getting around 5V between pins 7 and 14 of IC2 and IC3. IC3 is all go, no worries. But for some reason, it only seems to be pulling 2V through IC2. Any ideas where I should start looking?

    Currently set to phoenix mode, 3.57MHz, nothing else connected yet (cards PC etc)





    please don't be too harsh on my soldering skills, I'm still learning.
    Last edited by allstarnz; 02-12-08 at 09:04 PM. Reason: clarification



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    I remember years ago mine didnt give the correct voltage on one of the ICs too. Cant remember which one though and I dont think it was as low as yours.

    Funny thing was, it worked perfectly and programmed cards fine.

    I remember the major obstacle was the "Failed at address 00000h" error.

    Try and program a goldie and see what the outcome is and if any error messages occur.

    Cant really see in your pic if any of the tracks on IC3 are shorted.

    EDIT- After looking more closely, it almost looks like a pin or two on your ICs arent soldered at all, or is that just my shocking eyesite?
    Last edited by N00b; 02-12-08 at 08:39 PM. Reason: Added more info

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    Senior Member z80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allstarnz View Post
    According to the book, I should be getting around 5V between pins 7 and 14 of IC2 and IC3. IC2 is all go, no worries. But for some reason, it only seems to be pulling 2V through IC2. .


    not sure what you mean....



    anyway...got all the links in?...are you sure?


    are the two transistors in the right places? easy to mix up....

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    I think your soldering is the issue. Look at all your joints and touch up the ones that don't look neat or soldered at all. And recheck all components and that they are in the correct location and orientation.

    Leroy

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    Senior Member allstarnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N00b View Post
    EDIT- After looking more closely, it almost looks like a pin or two on your ICs arent soldered at all, or is that just my shocking eyesite?
    oh, crap, you're not wrong

    must admit, had to do that one again, after realising i'd mounted it the wrong way.

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    Junior Member tink's Avatar
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    I agree with leroy i would check all your soldering... not that im an expert. It had been quite a few years since my last kit, but mine went together without any problems although i checked everything 3 times.I also noticed that the soldering points for the transistors were very tight. Its so easy to miss something.
    tink

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    My advise to people starting out with kit's that they should always

    1: allow plenty of time
    2: make sure no kids or wife are about
    3: make sure you have plenty of light directly over the area you are working on
    4: have a big work area and sort all parts out first
    4: have a magnifying glass to check each component after you finish each one
    5: have a wet sponge there so you can cool the tip at times so it doesn't over heat
    6: have some steel wool to regularly clean the tip (stainless type)
    7: when done check everything with a magnifying glass
    8: walk away have a drink and come back 10 minutes later and double check again with the magnifying glass

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    Senior Member hillbilly's Avatar
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    from what I'm told the Jaycar solder is pox as well, maybe use some decant stuff.

    I was having similar problems with mine, after double, triple, quadruple checking and rechecking I gave up and shipped it off to GW1, so I'll see what comes of that.

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    hillbilly most of the time its not the solder thats the issue it could be

    1: no flux being used
    2: iron over heating and getting an oxide build up on the tip
    3: to much solder
    4: tip to big/small for the job

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    Junior Member tink's Avatar
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    i used the solder in the kit without any problems..

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    Senior Member allstarnz's Avatar
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    i didn't use the solder in the kit, I used my other stuff.

    I'll go resolder the joins on that IC tomorrow, can't be bothered now, getting too late.

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    If you are unsure if the soldier for 2 pins is touching each other use a knife to ensure a cut between each and finish off with some old nail polish (stolen for the misses) to insulate the back of the board.
    It's hard to make a come back when I havn't been anywhere
    I finally got my head together, now my bodies falling apart.
    為什麼不做你被塞滿

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    nice tip MrElectricity.

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    Looking at the first pic I noticed that the cases of your crystals are not earthed.
    Not sure if that could cause problems

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    Quote Originally Posted by mandc View Post
    Looking at the first pic I noticed that the cases of your crystals are not earthed.
    Not sure if that could cause problems
    I think soldering a bit of wire to the xtal case is to stop them moving more than anything.

    Leroy

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    Senior Member gw1's Avatar
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    Soldering the cases to ground helps with noise immunity but that's no big deal here. The main benefit of soldering the cases is it prevents accidental damage - crystals are quite brittle at the entry point of their leads.

    I seem to remember crystals don't like excess heat so try to be as quick as possible when soldering their leads and case. It helps to scratch the case with something sharp at the point of soldering to get a good joint. They aren't as fussy as LEDs though which are relatively easy to damage.

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    Senior Member z80's Avatar
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    jaycar are notorious for giving wrong resistor values with their kits...or missing them.


    test them with a Meter before fitting is what i always do...quite often the guys packing the kits are visually challenged.

    if you want to test them then in circuit that's okay as long as you are street wise to the value that should be roughly there.

    general rule of thumb it should always measure less than the value you expect cause it is in parallel with an unknown...

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    Further to GW1's tip, I remember using a cotton bud with a bit of Hydrocloric acid (HCl) if you have it just to break the chrome/surface a little so the solder grabs. Just a little dab, leave it a second or two and then wipe off. Be careful as it is not good for you or your skin.

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    Senior Member allstarnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by z80 View Post
    test them with a Meter before fitting is what i always do...quite often the guys packing the kits are visually challenged
    yeah, I did that. I got sick of guessing the colours, so double checked all resistors using the multimeter


    so I after redoing the joints on that IC, it's still only at 2.75ish volts. Is it worth giving it a go all the same?

    Realised I stuffed up, and my null modem cable for reimaging etc won't work, i'll need to buy a gender changer tomorrow. That's all I need, no funny pins swaps since it's a null modem?

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    Senior Member gw1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N00b
    I remember years ago mine didnt give the correct voltage on one of the ICs too ... Funny thing was, it worked perfectly and programmed cards fine.
    In your case it would have been IC3 that was improperly connected. Without IC3 it'd be able to limp along in JDM mode, programming and reading PICs using ICProg or similar, but the Phoenix mode wouldn't work. And the red LED probably wouldn't have worked.

    Quote Originally Posted by allstarnz
    I should be getting around 5V between pins 7 and 14 of IC2 and IC3. IC3 is all go, no worries. But for some reason, it only seems to be pulling 2V through IC2. After redoing the joints on that IC, it's still only at 2.75ish volts. Is it worth giving it a go all the same?
    If IC2 isn't powered properly there's no way it will work, because without IC2 the PC's TXD signal won't get through (Phoenix needs TXD for card I/O while JDM needs it to control Vpp).

    Double-check that you have both IC2 and IC3 inserted the correct way around (both have their notches facing toward the DB9 socket). Check that all their pins are correctly seated in the IC sockets (they sometimes get bent underneath without going into the socket).

    Double-check you correctly understand IC pin numbering. Pin 1 is closest to the cathode (banded end) of D4. Pin 2 is adjacent to it, and so on down to pin 7 in the corner. Looking at the track on IC2 pin 7 you'll see that it connects to three things: a 100nF capacitor, to pin 5, and to a jumper link going to a massive area of copper. That massive area of copper is ground, or zero volts, the reference point we measure everything against. Check that the jumper link between pin 7 and ground is soldered cleanly (sometimes people trim the links before soldering and get a bad joint as a result).

    If you're getting different readings across IC2 and IC3 then either
    - that jumper link is incorrect, or
    - IC2 socket isn't soldered properly, or
    - IC2 isn't in the socket properly, or
    - your multimeter/probes is faulty and giving you a bum steer

    I have a gut feeling that you're somehow measuring things incorrectly, eg confused about which pins to measure. It's possible that IC2 is being powered properly but you aren't measuring the right pins.

    Realised I stuffed up, and my null modem cable for reimaging etc won't work, i'll need to buy a gender changer tomorrow. That's all I need, no funny pins swaps since it's a null modem?
    NO NO NO! You don't want a null modem cable + gender changer! Instead you want a serial mouse extension cable!! They are completely different things!

    The difference isn't just gender. Mouse extension cable is Male-Female with all pins wired straight through. That's what you need. Null modem cables have female at both ends and a bunch of wires swapped over.

    Null modem cable = F-F = for updating firmware on DM500, Humax etc.

    Mouse extension cable = M-F = for JDM/Phoenix interface

    good luck

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