Fracarro PU16H phased array.

**gordon_s1942** · 05-12-08, 12:20 AM

This phased array is listed in a Lacey's TV catalog and one is in use on a house in my main town.
Although the 'H' signifies its intended to be used as a Horizontal antenna, why cant it be turned and used for Vertical?
I know there are certain 'Rules' regarding antennas and conventions on how to stack but some are as far as I can see many are purely for mechanical reasons.
Now a single phased array works either H or V so when you phase 2 together so they become 'ONE', whats the difference how they are mounted to receive the signal ?
As I have never seen this antenna used anywhere else in my travels I was wondering if anyone else has seen or used this model.
Based on the specs of this antenna, where it is currently in use is overkill as the location is in clear line of sight of the towns translator and barely a kilometre from it.
Now remember to use the K.I.S.S principle in your comments please, after all it is Xmas...................

(Keep It Simple for Stupid)

**mtv** · 05-12-08, 02:53 AM

The PU16H mounting brackets are configured for a vertical mast.

If you were to mount it vertically, it would require a horizontal bar to attach it to.

Stacked phased arrays, either horizontal or vertical, generally work best when placed side-by-side, for a wider signal capture area, rather than on top of each oher.

Also, the 4-way combiner would be on it's side, allowing the ingress of water.

Was that kept simple enough?

**Keepleft** · 06-12-08, 12:43 PM

I have a single DSE (Matchmaster) phased array - having visions of doing the same to this product, as we see in the PU16H phased array under discussion (See page 11 of the Lacey's TV catalogue). Though, install will be for V pol.

Question though, are we using coax or ribbon for the harness (4 ants) and how are they effectively electrically 'coupled'???'

I am using an masthead amp with a single aerial as said above, so single input.

**mtv** · 06-12-08, 02:31 PM

Cabling is all coax into a 4-way passive coupler/combiner, pre-wired.

The PU16H requires a VERY rigid mount, as they are very sensitive to movement, due to the narrow beamwidth and alignment can be very difficult without a dgital FSM. Using a real-time spectrum analyser makes this task easier.

In marginal areas, I've found the single PU4A with the pre-amp installed in the balun housing works well.

Using pre-amps in the stacked arrays can have too much noise.

**andrewlace** · 07-12-08, 05:05 PM

Hi everyone you have all raised some excellent points. First I'd like to register a potential conflict of interest: I work for Laceys.

The pu16 makes stacking phased array antennas simpler. However stacking makes for a theoretical gain and is not always practical except in horror reception areas.

Even in these areas I prefer using a pre balun amplifier. This offers better results in many cases using a prebalun and a masthead/line amplifier because of the far lower noise of the pre balun amplifier. Also it is far less fiddly. We have a version of the pu8 which is designed for vertical however the pu54 or pu4a are both excellent antennas.

Unless you are in a weak reception area try something simpler first. I used to go through heaps of lp45n (UHF) antennas when I was installing and js2rt masthead amps (flat frequency response) and they are a nice clean masthead amp.

Please keep in mind that it's horses for courses. Please ring your local lacey's branch to get specific advice, we employ people who are experts. Remember all antennas have different characteristics such as frequency response, gain figures, return loss, front to back ratio, beamwidth etc.

Oh, and post your local carriers so we know what channels you're talking about.

**andrewlace** · 07-12-08, 05:08 PM

Forgot to mention depending on what you want to do the ap369 and blu920 also have prebalun amps.

These are however suitable for horizontal reception only.

**Fernbay** · 07-12-08, 06:22 PM

Hi Andrew & welcome to the Austech Forums

( BWT, I have sent you a PM on a Laceys related matter - hope you can help

)

**Variable** · 11-12-08, 11:45 PM

Gday, I am looking for a directional RX only antenna to listen to the VHF marine band at 162MHz.

I thought a band 3/channel 6 TV antenna may be a cheaper alternative than a 2 way product from Benelec/RFI etc.

I only need 2 or 3 elements due to lack of space and body corporate concerns, something like a Fracarro BLV4F or 4E512F or a Phaselink.

Any advice appreciated. Thanks.

**gordon_s1942** · 12-12-08, 12:49 AM

Firstly thanks for all the replies and an apology as I have been off line due to a communication failure on my Sat Internet since Dec 2nd. Talk about a stuffup but thats a different kettle of fish.Now MTV, I am VERY well aware the of the current structure of the mounting bars and I have 2 old CA16 VHF phased array frames to be cut up and attatched as mounts for the Vertical stacking. Also that the coupler/combiner will be side on and needs to be turned so the entry points are down to prevent rain ingress.My intention is to mount on a mast of about 1 & 1/2 inch diameter (35/38 mm?) and to guy it as required. Bin der and dun dat as dem breezes blow hard in dese hir mountains.Thank you Andrew and yes, I qualify for a horrendous lousy,poor,rotten bad even reception area and I see this PU16 as a $300 experiment that will either be an outstanding success or back to the drawing board dismal failure.
Keepleft, I will post what results I get.
As for a FSM, that is just a pipe dream and I do all my tests by the well known Trial and Failure methord, if I can see it and hear it, its a goer !!!!
I am too stupid to know what I am doing cant be done according to established principles so I just 'soldier on' but I do ask, I do read and I look carefully at what others have done or tried which is why I posted this thread.
I am awaiting delivery of the PU16H and over this weekend I hope to make the mounting frame and between now and xmas try it out.
The only thing that does concern me with this antenna is the coax used as phasing is WHITE !!!
Now UV and white was a dead loss on 300ohm tape many years ago, it was lucky to last a year before it literaly disintergrated.
Once I get the frame set up I will post a pic.
I will be using a Kingray MHA, either a 42 or a 44 that I have and I was told to avoid placing the MHA too close to a phased array so I was planning to measure the length of one phasing cable and using that length to make a cable up to connect from the combiner to the MHA.
Thanks to all for your replies.

**gordon_s1942** · 17-12-08, 09:45 PM

Due to a mixup I am still awaiting delivery of the PU16H, hopefully this Friday 19th.
Then depending on whether the weather (like that?) behaves itself I will be setting it up.
For obvious reasons Tues,Wed and Thurs are probably out but once thats over I wont have any distractions other than getting motivated.
I will post results on how I go.
One thing to go on with for thought is height.
I lowered the antenna down about 20 feet (about 45 feet fully up) and it did definately effected the reception.
Now remember I am only using the scale on a 7 inch SDLCD (Cobalt) TV and the signal went down over 5 % on all channels. I made VERY sure the antenna was facing the translator. This caused pixilation and that snapping noise which disapeared when I re raised the antenna.
The antenna does not drop below anything in the front of it when lowered and I even varied the tilt of the antenna slightly when lowered but I saw no improvement.
5+% dont sound much but when your marginal to begin with, any % can be critical.
It took Edison 1040 ? experiments to invent the light globe and if he did it, so can I.

**mtv** · 18-12-08, 03:03 PM

[QUOTE=Variable;118828]Gday, I am looking for a directional RX only antenna to listen to the VHF marine band at 162MHz.
QUOTE]
They work quite well, depending on your location in relation to the TX.

**gordon_s1942** · 21-12-08, 11:14 PM

we still use ch 6 vertical VHF here with a UHF horizontal for the others, with the UHF removed it is fairly small.
Be ideal as its already set for vertical mounting and the UHF part if needed later can be added as either vert or Horizontal.
Not sure if you can buy just the VHF part seperatly.
If its too visible, how about a spray can of flat matt green and spray it?

**gordon_s1942** · 22-12-08, 11:05 PM

I regret to advise my promised posting on how a Fraccaro PU16H antenna performed will not be given because it never arrived.
I had ordered it earlier in the week as I knew their delivery schedule was for a Friday so I rang on Friday morning to be advised to expect the delivery late on Friday 19th which I didnt care what time and I said I was happy to go meet the delivery out on the highway to minimise time. I said I would be by the phone and as soon as I got the call, I would go but as of today Monday 22 that call hasnt come.
Many couriers/travellers will only deliver in main towns and flatly refuse to drive a metre off the main highways to smaller communities, Chrisco pulled that stunt AGAIN this year.
It was a C.O.D delivery so I am not out of pocket except for the time wasted, if I had paid for it I can assure you I would be saying quite a lot more than this.
When payment was first discussed I said I hadnt paid by credit card over the phone and I wasnt sure how to do it but the offer was made that I could pay C.O.D which I was happy to do.
This is the second 'delivery' that seems to have gone amiss so I am not waiting any longer.
I was looking forward to experimenting with this antenna but its not to be it seems.
I realise I am only an single customer spending $300 but spending that amount on an antenna is big time for me.

In closing all I will say if this was an Ebay sale it would be a totaly negative feedback left.