Reply With Quotegodzilla had a play around with this a while back
maybe do a quick search?
Hydrogen generators
mate has built a hydrogen generator for his car, reckons it's upped the fuel economy from 39 to 45 mpg (he's old school).
he's running water with baking soda dissolved in it - but his unit only draws 3 amps.
What solutions / chemicals are you running - that perhaps produce more gas (at the expense of drawing more current)?
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godzilla had a play around with this a while back
maybe do a quick search?
Draino (AKA Sodium hydroxide)LOL
Not too much, or you will draw tooooo many amps.
Ah yes, I have read about NaOH...Originally Posted by Godzilla
Draino (AKA Sodium hydroxide)
Not too much, or you will draw tooooo many amps.
How much is too much?
Depends on the plate combination, space of the plates and the amount of water your using.
A good way to find out is run the unit with straight water and measure the amperage, then start adding 1/4 to 1/2 a teaspoon at a time dissolved in a little water so you know it will mix with the water and keep an eye on your ammeter.
You control your amps drawn via the strength of the mix.
Test different plate combos, IE - + - - + - , or - + - + - etc
Play with your plate spacing.
They all can produce different amounts of hydrogen and amp usage.
Some of my first tests
Your Friend reported a improvement in fuel usage, great.
Did he build a bubbler to separate the hydrogen used from the generator? A good idea, when it goes bang its not a pretty sight. LOL
A rubber plug in the bubbler and the generator is a good explosion safety valve, anything goes bang and the plug pops out to relive the pressure.
Now the fun bit, if he is running it in a EFI vehicle he needs to lean out the petrol as he is adding hydrogen....hint trick the oxygen sensor.
Then measure the mileage.
Hydrogen Generator Saves 20% - 90% Fuel and Increases Power.By converting your vehicle to a Hydrogen Hybrid, this alternative renewable energy will not only improve fuel economy but it will also drastically reduce emission exhaust gases. MagDrive FuelfromH2o Hydrogen Generators are an on demand supplemental fuel system.
I have a Holden VS, and have been looking at this for a while, i did make one but didnt work to well. When i get extra cash im going to buy one off ebay and try it out. I didnt put it on the car i was just messing around with it.
Im only going to run it when the car is on GAS as i have the old Mixer system on my car which will work better as i can lean off the GAS mix.
When i was playing around with my device i was filling Balloons up with in about 1min and then setting a match to them. Nice little Bang :-P
The advertising people will of course tell you of the amazing savings !
I have seen these things rigged up and working and none of them make any real difference in fuel consumption in a properly conducted scientific testing regimen. Tests were performed on both diesel and petrol engines, carburettor and fuel injected. Some people will see improvements in fuel economy because they want to !
Some people believe that it's not the (tiny) energy value of the hydrogen which causes any decrease in fuel use, rather more efficient burning of petrol/diesel due to the presence of the hydrogen/oxygen derived from the water. Real-world (scientific) testing indicates these systems do nothing.
In short - it's a con ! 'Placebo effect' is good enough for some people.
@Bulbous, have you personally tested and tried it yourself or are you jumping to conclusions?
I have thrown $ at it, in a search of self discovery, the amount of $ involved to do it properly is not a joke, forget the elcheapo ebay crap.
We wont get into the $ needed for exhaust gas analyzing and tricking the air/fuel ECU mixes into going lean as the hydrogen input goes up or setting it up to make it explosion proof.
Ive seen the results, its an on going game for when i get a boredom itch and i have a few spare $ lying around.
My only doubt ATM is how much of the savings are due to me leaning out the mix as automotive manufacturers build cars to run on the rich side as is.
My argument is how much fuel savings is my leaning VS hydrogen input?
I playing with it, with an open mind.
I watched closely as a mate tried this HHO stuff on 2 vehicles, carefully and scientifically calculating fuel economy. No change in economy noted...
Plenty of research finds no scientifically derived economy gain, but an internet search finds plenty of gullible or hopeful people, including many who simply lie about economy gains to qualify their purchase of the scam.
A GOOGLE finds hundreds of sites discussing this deal - none show scientifically proven gains.
I think even the silly MythBusters found the HHO generators a scam.
With the millions of dollars available to car companies desperately trying to make vehicle sales by showing off their fuel economy figures you would expect to see such a device in every Toyota, Mazda, Ford, Holden, or Lada....if it did anything !
Just stick a resistor in the Oxygen sensor circuit of an EFI engine, this can trick the ECU to run leaner. This can work well but can also increase emissions, burn catalytic converters, exhaust valves etc.
Mr Toyota has Engineers for a reason.
Not a simple as throwing a resistor on a o2 sensor, if you understand how hydrogen setups work the output at start up is low and will increase with time.
The water also plays havoc with the o2 sensors, with wide band ones being the best to work with.
My biggest hurdle is understanding if its the leaning, the hydrogen or the effects of water turning to steam making the difference.
Many people are running them with homemade setups with gains and not running around trying to sell them off. The benefits vary from user to user, as do the designs, current, water mix and installation.
I'm playing with gains....shit i haven't even thought about scamming people, more like thinking of all the money Ive thrown playing with it. LOL
There is more than meets the eye with it, Ive seen the ebay and Internet scam jobs (coffee jar setups), they are so poorly designed, with so Little s/s in them that its a joke. They dont even run a relay for the circuit and in some cases no bubbler or thought to backfire. LOL
Anyway bulbous, believe what you want, or actually go and experiment with it rather than buy a ready made scam or work off the first you have built.
I'm on my 6th design unit now and things are only getting better (except my bank account).
For me its about breaking the boredom and seeing how far it can be taken and understanding where the benefits (and losses such as burnt out exhaust systems) are coming from.
Im running it on gas at 40 cents a litre
There is much more to this than meets the eye, including facts such as the amount of water in the intake air - depending on its humidity - being thousands of times more than the amount created by burning the tiny amount of hydrogen. The amount of water produced by burning petrol or diesel is also thousands of times more than the amount produced by burning the volume of hydrogen delivered by these systems.
The calorific value of the delivered hydrogen is hundredths of a percent of that of the normal petrol/diesel used.
I don't blame you for having a go at the idea !
What the world needs is real scientific evidence, but I have yet to find any.
If this idea really had merit maybe the Mitsubishi plant could have kept running, do you think Mitsubishi's Engineers even considered trying the system ?
Agreed, thats what im getting to, is it truely the hydrogen making the diffrence or is it just a case of in the most simplest of terms just basic water vapor injection?
I am getting a considerable amount of hydrogen production, could it contribute with the water vapour to assist the burn?
Many questions, few true solid answers.
Have you tried economy testing yourself with the devices you have made in the past ?
I am sure you will know how to accurately gauge this/any economy gains, unlike the stories written by hopefuls who are simply guessing. Many of these stories by device users are ridiculous, some saying they "only put in $20 this week when I usually put in $30 in fuel". Others claim their "economy meter reads different" - all totally meaningless.
A real test involves normal driving for several tankfulls of fuel, accurately noting fuel used and distance travelled...whilst forgetting about the gas system which may make the driver behave differently in terms of driving for economy. Cruise Control driving over the same route is a very good way of making comparisons, keeping a mind on wind direction and other variables.
It would be great to have unlimited access to a dyno with fuel and exhaust gas measuring gear !
When I was a young man, and dinosaurs roamed the earth, there was a company in Sydney, Frank Kleinig motors I think, that sold a device called a MistMaster that added a mix of water and alcohol into the venturi of the carburetor, There were graphs of tests done on brake dyno's that were supposed to show increases in engine output, people who used it claimed increased engine power and improved mileage when towing caravans.
Maybe it worked, Maybe it was wishful thinking.
It is an established fact that the electrical energy required by the hydrogen generator to split the water into hydrogen an oxygen is greater than the energy that is produced by this gas.
The electrical energy to power the Hydrogen generator comes from the alternator re-charging the battery, which ultimately comes from the engine, all of these process have losses, so how can this work.
Cheers Grandad
I believe Frank used that principle borrowed from WW2,I think the Messechmits used water injection for combat power increases.
Its not as simple as that,the experimenters use a principle of pulsed dc current which is at the resonant frequency of water assisting the breakdown of the elements. Anyway we all know that you cant go any faster than 25mph as it has been proved that a human cant breath..or so they said about this new fangled thing called a automobile.
There is a lot of work being done about Browns gas in vehicles,I think one Japaneses company intended to market it with one of its cars.
This is correct - you can't get something for nothing.
However, many of the people using this system don't claim it's the actual calorific value of the hydrogen/oxygen burning which makes any difference - rather it's some effect of the presence of the gas mixture on the normal combustion of the fuel. Some say it increases flame propagation speed, some effect of the gas water generation properties etc.
This could make some difference but needs scientific investigation, not anecdotal evidence (stories).
"Resonant frequency of water" ! ....so these guys are building microwave oscillators out of tins and bits of plastic tubing ? How much power and at what efficiencies is Jim-Bob getting from his hand-whittled 2.5GigaHertz resonant cavities ?
More extremely unlikely anecdotes don't increase the fact level....
Stories !
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