replacing injectors in a VL commodore

[skookumchuck]

has anyone done this ? i'm in the process and it's driving me nuts ! i have had a few problems with my VL and i've just about eliminated all i can think of to stop it using a huge amount of fuel and blowing black smoke when it's reved up. also chugging when i ease off the accelerator doing 70/ 80 kph and etc. etc. i've done just about all the checks and replaced the fuel pump, filter , distributor, oxygen sensor, cheched all the connecting plugs and cleaned them, etc, etc. so now i'm replacing the injectors. i have undone all the clips etc. but getting the fuel rail off seems a bit impossible without taking off the air intake manifold. looks like the only way i can see. plus it would make putting back on all the clips and clamps on the injectors a bit easy. anyone else had the same problem ? is it easy to take off the air intake mainfold ? looks like there is some coolant hoses going into it as well. is this all in a closed system when the manifold comes off or will there be coolant every where ?
any helping suggestions would be appreciated.

[z80]

they can be cleaned instead of replaced can't they?

maybe an injector cleaner fuel additive, have you tried that?


any ECU error codes?

[Extradry]

Hi Mate,

I have seen the coolant temp sensor fail on these things, makes em run rich as hell,

After you have the clips and the ubolts just work the rail out. the o rings are probally hard as nails so thats why you are stuggling. Worst case take the top half of the inlet manifold off for more room

Regs
Extra

[Godzilla]

Coolant runs through the manifold.

Its not your injectors, you can prove it by checking the color of your spark plugs, if their all black it means all are running rich and i cant see all injectors failing at the same time. If only one or two are black then maybe, but id be more inclined to blame that on bad spark. If they are all black look at your fuel pressure reg, chances are its allowing too much pressure to the injecters.

Its the coolant temp sensor as mentioned by Extra dry, oxygen sensor which you have replaced, airflow meter, ECU or fuel pressure regulator. The ECU's are known to play up on them, water can get to them if rubber seals are leaking with age.

These are the components that control your mixture.

Have you checked if your fuel pressure regulator is working and not stuck open, is its vacuum hose still connected? This would cause injectors to overfuel.

Are you sure you dont have bad spark? It can give similar results, like running rich due to unburnt fuel.

Have you checked your ECU codes for errors?

(Quoted from another site)
This test is for the VL n/a 3.0ltr engine and also the 3.0ltr turbo engine;

1.) Remove the screw retaining the front left side kick panel and remove the panel

2.) Turn the diagnostic mode selector carefully, located above the LED's fully anticlockwise. Do not force it or press hard.

3.) Turn the ingnition switch to the "ON" position and ensure the LED's remain lit.

4.) Carefully turn the diagnostic mode selector fully clockwise.

5.) Start the engine and allow it to idle. By starting the engine the starter signal circuit is activated and the red and green LED's may begin to flash.

To indentify the code numbers count the number of flashes of the red and green LED's. The red LED represents 10 and the green LED represents 1. For example if the red LED flashes once and then the green LED flashes once that would indicate code number 11, which is the crank angle sensor circuit. If more then one fault is present then it will diplay them in numerical order with a pause between each one.

The fault codes are the following;

11:- Crank Angle Circuit
12:- Air Flow Meter Circuit
13:- Coolant Temperature Sensor Circuit
14:- Vehicle Speed Sensor Circuit
21:- Ignition Signal Circuit
23:- Throttle Switch Circuit
24:- Neutral Switch Circuit
31:- Satifactory Operation (non air-con vehicles) OR Air-conditioner Circuit
32:- Starter Singnal Circuit
34:- Detonation Sensor Circuit (turbo models)
44:- Satisfactory Operation (air-con vehicles)

*****If the engine can not be started, operate the starter motor for at least 2 seconds. This will activate the starter signal circuit and cancel code number 32. NOW PROCEED TO OPERATION NUMBER 8. *****

6.) Drive the vehicle at a speed greater then 10km/hr. Now this will activate the speed sensor circuit and cancel code number 14.

7.) Stop the engine and turn the ignition switch to the "ON" position.

8.) Depress and release the throttle pedal. This will activate the throttle switch and cancel code number 23.

9.) Move the transmission shift lever from neutral to any other gear and back to neutral. This will activate the neutral switch circuit and cancel code number 24.

10.) On vehicles equipped with air-con turn the air-con switch from "OFF" to "ON" and then "OFF" again. This will activate the air-con switch circuit and cancel code 31.

11.) Note the code/s displayed on the control unit.
If code number 31 for vehicles not equiped with air-con , or code number 44 for vehicles is displayed this indicates the system is functioning correctly and no faults have been detected.
To complete the self diagnostic test turn the self diagnostic selector fully anticlockwise and turn the ignition to the "OFF" position.

12.) If the control unit displays codes other than numbers 31 for non air-con equipped cars or 44 for for air-con equipped cars then refer to the fault code table above as earlier mentioned. If there is more then one fault then the codes will be displayed in numerical order and there will be a gap in each series of flashes.

TO ERASE THE ENGINE MANAGEMENT COMPUTER MEMORY

1.) Turn the ignition switch to the "ON" position.
2.) Turn the diagnostic mode selector fully clockwise and leave for at least 5 seconds.
3.) Turn the diagnostic mode selector fully anticlockwise in that position for at least 5 seconds.
4.) Turn the ignition switch to the "OFF" position.

[skookumchuck]

thanks extradry, z80and godzilla for your replies and info. wanted to reply earlier but the site wouldn't let me sign in for some unknown reason and had to get another password !! sorry for the delay.
i've had the fuel pressure checked and is okay. i've also had it dyno tuned before so sparkplugs should be new? vacuum hose is connected and i've checked the ecu. the only code that comes up is 14 - vehicle speed sensor curcuit. i've cleaned the terminal points on that and it seems okay, don't know what else to do with it. i always put in injector cleaner in now and again. at the moment i've just about got the fuel rail off and i'll have to disconnect the coolant hose that goes to the manifold to slide it out with the injectors on so i can get them off. the hose tails seem stuck on probably because they've been on there for so long. today i should be able to get them off and put on the new ones and slowly fit it all back together. i'll let you know my progress and if there's any hitches. if the coolant temp sensor fails wouldn't it run hot ? at the moment it runs relatively cool. just under the half way gauge.

[Godzilla]

The coolant temp sensor for the ecu registers the temp of the water, sends the signal to the ecu, ecu reads signal which is wrong and thinks the engine is cold, runs the engine extra rich like a choke on an old car till it gets a reading from the temp sensor that its warmed up.

Faulty temp sensor=engine runs really rich like the choke is on all the time.

Edit; also clean your airflow meter probe (inside the bore of the meter) with some electrical contact cleaner, the probe measures air flow and inlet air temperatures.

Did you check your fuel pressure after the pressure regulator?

[skookumchuck]

no ! didn't do the pressure check. but i did check the probes and clean them in the air flow meter. i'm in the middle of taking the manifold off to get to the injectors. **** of a job ! i'll do the pressure checks when i get it back together. i'll do a coolant sensor check later. but i've gone on long trips and the temp stays constant, just under the half way gauge and doesn't really move all that much. only slightly in really hot weather and i have the air con on, gets to half way. i'll kick my self if it is the sensor ! at the moment i'm in deep with the manifold removal. it's the only way of taking the injectors out easily and putting them back that i can see. talk to you later, back under the bonnet !

[Godzilla]

Have a closer look, there are normally 2 water temp sensors, one for your gauge and one for the ECU.

This one for the ECU. Note 2 wires.


This one for the instruments. Note 1 wire.

[skookumchuck]

thanks for the pics. well disaster struck ! had to get off all the brackets off the old injectors plus the c clip, fit the new rubber ring on and when i tried to fit them in the hole in the motor they wouldn't fit in very well . i found that at the end of the nozzle there was a washer when i put the small rubber o ring on and on the old one there is just the small o ring at the end of the nozzle. even without the small o ring it wouldn't fit right ! so back to 'coventry's' to check. i have already been back with the new one to find out about the bracket that bolts the injectors down and they explained that you have to take the old ones off. ahh well down tools for a break, monday i'll go in again !

[skookumchuck]

according to 'coventry's ' the injectors are the listed ones but comparing them to the old ones they are different. so i've returned them and am now getting the old ones serviced. hopefully when they send the new ones back to the manufacture they will give me my money back ! old ones will be done tomorrow so i'll get back onto it again. i've a sneaking suspicion that you may well be right 'godzilla' the heat sensor could be it, according to the mechanic who is doing the injectors . he reckons it usually is it when i mentioned the symptoms that the car was doing. ah well i'll have good injectors ! roll on macduff !! it'll be a few more days before i sort this out.

[recklesstwo]

Hi,
I have a VL Commodore 1986 Sedan.
The engine is cranking, but not turning-over.
I have checked the fuel lines, and it appears that the fuel is getting to the engine.
Checked all circuites, fuses, fuel pump, fuel pressure, and at now at a loss.
The Mechanic said that both fuel pumps needs replacing as they are not working.
If fuel pumps are not working, should there be any pressure coming out of the inlet fuel line or the outlet fuel line?
Any other suggestions on what I should check?

[Godzilla]

Both fuel pumps?

Sounds like you need a new mechanic because there is only 1 from what i know.

Simple to check if your fuel pumps not working, remove the hose entering your fuel rail, turn your ignition on and you will quickly know because if it is working there will be fuel everywhere......please run the hose into a container so you blow yourself up.

Id suggest checking for spark too VL's are known to have spark issues that kills them.

Remove a lead, stick a screwdriver inside, position the screwdriver 5mm from a metal part of the engine and confirm you see a spark arcing between the 2 while cranking the engine.

No spark? Have a read here..

[porkchops]

Also you should hear a low-pitch electrical hum of the fuel pump when you turn on the ignition - well at least that's what I used to hear.

Would highly suggest buying a Gregory's car manual on the VL - as have one and know it will repay itself many times over on my current project. They book has a section towards the front that deals with these types of scenarios. Also gives you labeled photos to learn what parts are what - which is my latest big learning curve

Update to my motor going south: found another motor locally on ebay for my car and have got as far as mounting purchased motor on engine stand (requires minor work) and removing bonnet, radiator and half the wiring (the easier to get to bits).

[Tradesman]

Also you should hear a low-pitch electrical hum of the fuel pump when you turn on the ignition - well at least that's what I used to hear.

yes good point , remove the fuel cap and you will hear the pump run for 10secs once you switch the ignition on. it will also run once you turn the key to "start".
however that wont tell you if you have enough pressure , just tells you the pump is running.

[recklesstwo]

Hi again,
I have checked the control unit for the green and red's.
The 2 Circuit's that are damaged is the: Throttle Switch Circuit and Neutral Switch Circuit.
What parts of the car would I need to fix?

[recklesstwo]

Hi,

I have a 2005 Suzuki Swift.
It stalled on me this morning.
Has plenty of fuel, Battery is Charged and plenty of Battery Acid.
Oil is full.
Racv guy connected the Jumper Leads for about 10 mins.
What could be the problem?

[Godzilla]

Hi,

I have a 2005 Suzuki Swift.
It stalled on me this morning.
Has plenty of fuel, Battery is Charged and plenty of Battery Acid.
Oil is full.
Racv guy connected the Jumper Leads for about 10 mins.
What could be the problem?

Well thats typical Racv, car wont start and what do they do? Check if you have oil and battery acid....and charge you for adding any fluids even if they have nothing to do with the problem at hand.

When you say it stalled, was it running, was it warmed up at the time, does it crank (turn over) when you turn the key but not start at all?

A little more info may help determine the nature of the problem and where to start looking.

Oh and if it wont crank at all (considering your battery is charged and holding the charge), start with a bad earth lead or connection, bad battery terminal connection, faulty starter motor. etc

[recklesstwo]

Well thats typical Racv, car wont start and what do they do? Check if you have oil and battery acid....and charge you for adding any fluids even if they have nothing to do with the problem at hand.

When you say it stalled, was it running, was it warmed up at the time, does it crank (turn over) when you turn the key but not start at all?

A little more info may help determine the nature of the problem and where to start looking.

Oh and if it wont crank at all (considering your battery is charged and holding the charge), start with a bad earth lead or connection, bad battery terminal connection, faulty starter motor. etc

Hi,
It did start, then died about 10-15 minutes later. When it died, it didn't turn over.