Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 55

Thread: Perpetual motion? Perendev Magnetic Motor.

  1. #21
    Junior Member ufosarereal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    202
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts
    Rep Power
    193
    Reputation
    83

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    nar, it was just the way that you posted that helped me loose interest.
    It was just one big mass of words, and after a hard day at work, lack of caffeine helping fuel my headache it just didn't make any sense and was just a bucket of words.
    By the time I'd taken a couple of codeines and read it over a couple of times.
    I was convinced it was an extract from Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy.

    If you're trying to sell an idea or concept, it helps to keep the explanation simple. Even for me. Sometimes I just loose the plot. Mmmm Codeine.
    Sorry, you couldn't understand my words. Next time I'll choose smaller, simpler language you might understand. I was enjoying the mature discussion though!
    UFO



  • #22
    Senior Member
    trash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tamworth
    Posts
    4,088
    Thanks
    148
    Thanked 3,229 Times in 1,451 Posts
    Rep Power
    1287
    Reputation
    47674

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ufosarereal View Post
    Next time I'll choose smaller, simpler language you might understand.
    yes please. A little bit of white space too if you don't mind.

  • #23
    Junior Member ufosarereal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    202
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts
    Rep Power
    193
    Reputation
    83

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    yes please. A little bit of white space too if you don't mind.
    Trash, it really belittles you and damages your credibility when you attack people personally because you can't counter an argument in a reasonable manner. Please don't fall to that level.

    Kindest Regards
    UFO

  • #24
    Banned BlackDuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Where I live
    Posts
    1,719
    Thanks
    504
    Thanked 367 Times in 237 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    1146

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ufosarereal View Post
    Trash, it really belittles you and damages your credibility when you attack people personally because you can't counter an argument in a reasonable manner. Please don't fall to that level.

    Kindest Regards
    UFO
    Afraid I've got to agree with El trasho here.

    A little less prolixity and a space between paragraphs would make your posts more readable.

    Cheers,
    Duck.

  • #25
    Senior Member
    trash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tamworth
    Posts
    4,088
    Thanks
    148
    Thanked 3,229 Times in 1,451 Posts
    Rep Power
    1287
    Reputation
    47674

    Default

    No personal attack at all.
    Let me put it simply for you.

    You post was hard to read, it was just a mass of words. What little context I did understand just didn't interest me any longer.
    This is an (impersonal) attack. It's a poor actor that blames his audience when they leave because they didn't like the performance.

    I do have a life outsize of whacky theoretical physics. I take part because it is fun, not because I hope to develop interstellar transport.
    I continue to watch the thread because somebody (yourself included) may have something to say that does interest me.

  • #26
    Junior Member ufosarereal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    202
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts
    Rep Power
    193
    Reputation
    83

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trash
    ...

    By the time I'd taken a couple of codeines and read it over a couple of times.
    I was convinced it was an extract from Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy...
    Actually it was quite personal when your critique diminishes into meaningless, uninformative and untrue comments as above. My interest in nuclear physics extends back 2 decades and this was my first post in this section simply to indicate that an exception to a long held rule has been apparently discovered. My language reflected the cultural level of my perceived audience. Perhaps, in that assumption I was severely mistaken.
    Enough said on this matter.
    UFO

  • #27
    Premium Member rob916's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Bargara, Queensland.
    Age
    52
    Posts
    1,573
    Thanks
    49
    Thanked 75 Times in 36 Posts
    Rep Power
    250
    Reputation
    248

    Default

    I think that you should lay off the acid.

  • #28
    Senior Member
    Godzilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    59
    Posts
    12,740
    Thanks
    16,580
    Thanked 7,201 Times in 3,648 Posts
    Rep Power
    2198
    Reputation
    79113

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rob916 View Post
    I think that you should lay off the acid.


    Yep, Trash has a good point, too many words squashed together into a rambling mess.

    Hard to stay focused on what your trying to say, you can lose interest in no time.

    Shorten your sentences to whats needed and space things into paragraphs.

    Then i may actually attempt reading them.

  • #29
    Senior Member
    trash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tamworth
    Posts
    4,088
    Thanks
    148
    Thanked 3,229 Times in 1,451 Posts
    Rep Power
    1287
    Reputation
    47674

    Default



    I wonder if anybody will see a cent back on their investment ?

  • #30
    Senior Member mobihci's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    708
    Thanks
    38
    Thanked 204 Times in 139 Posts
    Rep Power
    222
    Reputation
    844

    Default

    sure that story didnt run on april 1st? hehe

    energy can be converted, but always at a loss, so i suppose it comes down to whether you subscribe in a finite universe or not.

    most of these 'magnetic' devices use peoples understanding of how a fridge magnet sticks to their fridge to con them into believing a million fridge magnets will power the fridge. of course the problem with lode stones is that they are weak fixed fields. not much use for a powered device.

  • #31
    Senior Member
    Arbiter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,408
    Thanks
    155
    Thanked 675 Times in 369 Posts
    Rep Power
    295
    Reputation
    3039

    Default

    Sorry to see ufosarereal bow out of this discussion - I was enjoying his intelligent posts.
    It's a real shame when the messenger is attacked.

  • The Following User Says Thank You to Arbiter For This Useful Post:

    ufosarereal (22-05-09)

  • #32
    Senior Member mobihci's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    708
    Thanks
    38
    Thanked 204 Times in 139 Posts
    Rep Power
    222
    Reputation
    844

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbiter View Post
    Sorry to see ufosarereal bow out of this discussion - I was enjoying his intelligent posts.
    It's a real shame when the messenger is attacked.
    he was pointing to theory. problem with theory is it tends to ingore time.

    you can study any system at any given time and come to the conclusion that there is a way to 'create' energy, and you can take that same study to another timeframe and come to the same conclusion, so over many timeframes very close together i looks like there is continuity, but in reality if there is ANY break in the timeline, then there is no continuity. causality.

    i think causality is blurred at quantum levels purely because of the lack of knowledge of quantum level physics, and to say that larger systems such as thermodynamics must be a victim of state because of that lack of knowledge is just nonsense. observation is the benchmark we work from, not theory.

  • #33
    Junior Member ufosarereal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    202
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts
    Rep Power
    193
    Reputation
    83

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mobihci View Post
    he was pointing to theory. problem with theory is it tends to ingore time.

    you can study any system at any given time and come to the conclusion that there is a way to 'create' energy, and you can take that same study to another timeframe and come to the same conclusion, so over many timeframes very close together i looks like there is continuity, but in reality if there is ANY break in the timeline, then there is no continuity. causality.

    i think causality is blurred at quantum levels purely because of the lack of knowledge of quantum level physics, and to say that larger systems such as thermodynamics must be a victim of state because of that lack of knowledge is just nonsense. observation is the benchmark we work from, not theory.


    I only saw this now, so I thought I'd just set the record straight before bowing out again. mobihci, the theory I was pointing to is substantiated by experimental fact using brownian motion models, as I mentioned in my first post. Also, I never stated that larger systems must be victims of state. Please re-read my post. I did, however, mention (in response to porkop) the possibility of such violations, and hence the infraction of causality, over short intervals at small scales. Furthermore, experimental evidence of the probability of violations of the second law of thermodynamics over such quantum scales, as expressed by the Lyapunov weight formula / Fluctuation Theorem have been amply discussed in the literature:



    The Fluctuation Theorem
    Authors: Denis J. Evans; Debra J. Searles
    DOI: 10.1080/00018730210155133
    Publication Frequency: 6 issues per year
    Published in: journal Advances in Physics, Volume 51, Issue 7 November 2002 , pages 1529 - 1585
    Subjects: Condensed Matter Physics; General Physics; Materials Science;
    Number of References: 59



    Abstract
    The question of how reversible microscopic equations of motion can lead to irreversible macroscopic behaviour has been one of the central issues in statistical mechanics for more than a century. The basic issues were known to Gibbs. Boltzmann conducted a very public debate with Loschmidt and others without a satisfactory resolution. In recent decades there has been no real change in the situation. In 1993 we discovered a relation, subsequently known as the Fluctuation Theorem (FT), which gives an analytical expression for the probability of observing Second Law violating dynamical fluctuations in thermostatted dissipative non-equilibrium systems. The relation was derived heuristically and applied to the special case of dissipative non-equilibrium systems subject to constant energy 'thermostatting'. These restrictions meant that the full importance of the Theorem was not immediately apparent. Within a few years, derivations of the Theorem were improved but it has only been in the last few of years that the generality of the Theorem has been appreciated. We now know that the Second Law of Thermodynamics can be derived assuming ergodicity at equilibrium, and causality. We take the assumption of causality to be axiomatic. It is causality which ultimately is responsible for breaking time reversal symmetry and which leads to the possibility of irreversible macroscopic behaviour. The Fluctuation Theorem does much more than merely prove that in large systems observed for long periods of time, the Second Law is overwhelmingly likely to be valid. The Fluctuation Theorem quantifies the probability of observing Second Law violations in small systems observed for a short time. Unlike the Boltzmann equation, the FT is completely consistent with Loschmidt's observation that for time reversible dynamics, every dynamical phase space trajectory and its conjugate time reversed 'anti-trajectory', are both solutions of the underlying equations of motion. Indeed the standard proofs of the FT explicitly consider conjugate pairs of phase space trajectories. Quantitative predictions made by the Fluctuation Theorem regarding the probability of Second Law violations have been confirmed experimentally, both using molecular dynamics computer simulation and very recently in laboratory experiments.

    UFO
    Last edited by ufosarereal; 22-05-09 at 05:15 AM.

  • #34
    Banned BlackDuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Where I live
    Posts
    1,719
    Thanks
    504
    Thanked 367 Times in 237 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    1146

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ofosarereal
    Sorry, you couldn't understand my words. Next time I'll choose smaller, simpler language you might understand. I was enjoying the mature discussion though!
    Quote Originally Posted by trash
    No personal attack at all.
    Let me put it simply for you.

    You post was hard to read, it was just a mass of words. What little context I did understand just didn't interest me any longer.
    This is an (impersonal) attack. It's a poor actor that blames his audience when they leave because they didn't like the performance.
    This just seems to be a clash of 2 good intelects.

    UFO, I hope we, the human race, behave in a more understanding way when we encounter superior life forms.

  • #35
    Senior Member
    eeprommemory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    ADL
    Posts
    1,048
    Thanks
    850
    Thanked 479 Times in 235 Posts
    Rep Power
    373
    Reputation
    7091

    Default

    the way trash explains things makes it easy for village idiots like me and others his posts are always easy to understand.
    ufo's posts are too complex to understand and show no real intellect because if he did it would be easy to read like trash's posts.
    it is ok to talk rocket science to another rocket scientist but that is useless in a fourum.

  • #36
    Junior Member ufosarereal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    202
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts
    Rep Power
    193
    Reputation
    83

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eeprommemory View Post
    the way trash explains things makes it easy for village idiots like me and others his posts are always easy to understand.
    ufo's posts are too complex to understand and show no real intellect because if he did it would be easy to read like trash's posts.
    it is ok to talk rocket science to another rocket scientist but that is useless in a fourum.
    That's just it, I didn't (and still don't) think I was speaking to "village idiots" whether I was showing real intellect or not ... and while I'm here, I would like to publicly apologize to Trash and others for my brash remarks.

    UFO

  • The Following User Says Thank You to ufosarereal For This Useful Post:

    Godzilla (27-05-09)

  • #37
    Senior Member
    trash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tamworth
    Posts
    4,088
    Thanks
    148
    Thanked 3,229 Times in 1,451 Posts
    Rep Power
    1287
    Reputation
    47674

    Default

    Hope I'm not too late ... I've been away for a couple of weeks moving house.
    My apologies go out to everybody too. I always put impersonal quips into posts. It's something that has become habit and helps keep a light sense about the topics being discussed.
    If anybody had heard vk2xbr and myself on ATV such acid drops have always been the spice of entertainment.

    When discussing some really radical ideas, expect a few good jokes from some of the really whacky ones. Porkop loves to give me stick about tachyons, it cracks me up. Despite the reality being rather depressing I never dismiss even the most radical ideas until they've been heard out.
    Then we can have some fun with them

  • #38
    Senior Member
    fromaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,133
    Thanks
    268
    Thanked 732 Times in 387 Posts
    Rep Power
    543
    Reputation
    13794

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla View Post


    Yep, Trash has a good point, too many words squashed together into a rambling mess.

    Hard to stay focused on what your trying to say, you can lose interest in no time.

    Shorten your sentences to whats needed and space things into paragraphs.

    Then i may actually attempt reading them.
    Energy -> (matter + antimatter) -> Energy ==>> Perpetual motion

  • #39
    Senior Member
    trash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tamworth
    Posts
    4,088
    Thanks
    148
    Thanked 3,229 Times in 1,451 Posts
    Rep Power
    1287
    Reputation
    47674

    Default

    Energy1 = Energy2 = unity

    The only thing Perpetual is the search for it

  • #40
    Senior Member
    fromaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,133
    Thanks
    268
    Thanked 732 Times in 387 Posts
    Rep Power
    543
    Reputation
    13794

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    The only thing Perpetual is the search for it
    Pitty can't use the motion for something usefull though. Once start using it the motion stops

  • Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •