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Thread: Perpetual motion? Perendev Magnetic Motor.

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    Premium Member rob916's Avatar
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    Default Perpetual motion? Perendev Magnetic Motor.



    What are your thoughts?
    What happens if I press alt + F4?



Look Here ->
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    Thoughts? Ummm...

    Looks like it is a crock of crap if you read this page:



    Others could not manage to get it working, even in scaled down versions..

    Nice idea though....
    I'm just a little dog...

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    Perpetual devices are real.
    There is no end to the amount of bullshit that these things can generate.
    If only we can find a way to harness bullshit, then we could power the world on just a fraction of The Greens policy.

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    Junior Member ericdog's Avatar
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    I agree with trash. Physics, gravity and friction all get in the way of perpetual energy. However, the bullshit could be used to lubricate the machine, well, at least thats what happens in politics!

    Curse this world we live in
    I'm just a little dog...

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    i had a look at the SEG videos and my BULLSHIT meter blew to bits.
    for $50 (scam) you can pay to see how it is supposed to work BUT not a working one.
    a working one was said to be made in 1949 so where is it and the maker can't seem to make a second one.
    as for the Perpetual motor i love how you have to wind it up and it then slowly winds down.

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    Default finsruds mobile

    this guy got it pretty close



    it's been running non stop for ages, although it's only 100% efficient. you need >100% efficiency to generate power, which is physically impossible.

    google finsruds mobile

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    IN THIS FORUM WE WILL OBEY THE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS!!!!!


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    Actually, we'd encourage you to try and break them, but you'll get a kick in the fanny if you get caught out

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    Junior Member ufosarereal's Avatar
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    Default Entropy who?

    Quote Originally Posted by porkop
    IN THIS FORUM WE WILL OBEY THE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS!!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Trash
    Actually, we'd encourage you to try and break them, but you'll get a kick in the fanny if you get caught out
    29-03-09 10:29 AM
    Actually Trash, porkop
    at micron scales statistical mechanics starts to break down and entropy can be reversed for a few seconds, an infringement of the second law of thermodynamics. The changes at this level compared to the macroscopic world is that those situations that would be possible but so improbable as to be negligible become increasingly probable for statistically significant lengths of time. For example, the random motion of individual air molecules in an enclosed space should ensure their even distribution throughout that space. This is significantly probable, however, it is statistically possible, however small the probability, that the random motion of those molecules push all the air into a confined area of that space, creating order in the thermodynamic sense and hence negative entropy. This latter probability reaches significance at the micron scale, implying that nature can work backwards over short intervals. Studies at ANU have confirmed this: Physical Review Letters (vol 89, 050601)

    UFO

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    Quote Originally Posted by ufosarereal View Post
    Actually Trash, porkop
    at micron scales statistical mechanics starts to break down and entropy can be reversed for a few seconds,
    yeah yeah yeah, next you will be telling us that ufos are real!

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    Junior Member ufosarereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by porkop View Post
    yeah yeah yeah, next you will be telling us that ufos are real!
    Ha, Ha, Ha ... You mock my superior alien intellect!
    And YES, you may doubt me, but UFOs are real! I, myself use a mercury plasma gravitational field modifier to generate interplanetary propulsion on my humble craft. Needs a tune up, but parts are really hard to find here. There are publications in your own limited language that you may want to read regarding special conditions of the General Theory of Relativity:



    Am. J. Phys. / Volume 31 / Issue 3 / PAPERS
    Guidelines to Antigravity
    American Journal of Physics -- March 1963 -- Volume 31, Issue 3,
    pp. 166-170
    Issue Date: March 1963





    UFO
    Last edited by ufosarereal; 31-03-09 at 12:09 PM.

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    You'll like this one porkop ... what he's saying is sort of true, but not really.

    I'm sure your familiar with engineering maths like I am and you've dealt with complex impedances before like 1+j1.
    +j1 ... now this "imaginary" number doesn't exist. It's just a debt we owe to the universe. Since the square root of a negative number doesn't exist, we introduce a little fudge to deal with it until we can pay it back.

    Tunnel Diodes. The electron disappears on one side of the energy barrier only to magically appear on the other. It cannot exist below the barrier no can it acquire enough energy to overcome it. So for the time period that the electron takes to tunnel, it doesn't exist. Energy and matter destroyed ? opps, there's a violation of thermodynamics. But we know that's not the case.

    The universe may tollerate small debts for short periods of time that it knows you can pay back like an electron, a photon or a neutrino, but try get away with a whole atom and god will come and collect on yo' arse ! Lets just say, it takes him a few milliseconds to notice something is missing.

    If you look at the kinetic energy of all the atoms contained in a glass of water, there is enough energy there to get you to the moon (so to speak). Problem is, all that kinetic energy is random noise, molecules bouncing off each other and manifesting as latent heat. I'm also dealing a stacked deck because that energy is referenced to absolute zero.
    But as ufo says, "it's still there" because he's dealing from the same stacked deck.
    All we need to do to make the glass of water work for us is to align all those random molecular motions into one vector and we have thrust !

    The point is that "statistical" mechanics is just that. "statistical".
    I can tell you with the use of statistics somebody will win tonight's lotto.
    I can tell you how likely it is that you will win it. But I cannot tell you want numbers are going to come up. If I could, then I could give those numbers to everybody so everybody could win the lotto and ... well... you know what the result is. Either everybody wins a tiny share or everybody gets paid the jackpot amount and the dollar is instantly deflated.

    You don't get nuffin' for nuffin' !

    ufo's I want to believe there's evidence.

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    Premium Member rob916's Avatar
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    There are LOTS of things in this world that we do not know about so I keep an open mind.
    Just because someone says it is not possible doesn't mean that it isn't, it just means that no one has found a way to do it, YET.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    You'll like this one porkop ... what he's saying is sort of true, but not really.
    Imagine having to pay back on an entropy credit crisis

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    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    You'll like this one porkop ... what he's saying is sort of true, but not really.

    I'm sure your familiar with engineering maths like I am and you've dealt with complex impedances before like 1+j1.
    +j1 ... now this "imaginary" number doesn't exist. It's just a debt we owe to the universe. Since the square root of a negative number doesn't exist, we introduce a little fudge to deal with it until we can pay it back.
    ...
    The point is that "statistical" mechanics is just that. "statistical".
    ...
    You don't get nuffin' for nuffin' !

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by porkop View Post
    Imagine having to pay back on an entropy credit crisis.
    All numbers are mathematical constructs created as a link between our cognitive processes - our reasoning and our environment. As such, all numbers are pure entities or tools without real world analogues. For example, we can say 2 pears or 2 apples, etc, but we cannot, in a physical sense, just say 2 without ultmately attributing significance and meaning to that number by quantifying it in reference to objects, processes or other physical phenomena. In otherwords, the numbers 2, Pi, e etc have no independent physical existence and are merely defining constructs invented by mankind for our own benefit. Similarly, the imaginary numbers, better described as Complex, provide solutions to all polymonial equations of degree one or higher and are therefore also only tools and in a pure sense as tangible as any other number. In fact, Complex numbers form the algebreic closure of the Real numbers and it would not be possible to otherwise use these numbers as we do were this not so. Consequently, your analogy concerning the repayment of a debt in this context is not quite accurate. Furthermore, thermodynamics is largely dependent upon the rather macroscopic concept of causality, which itself determines the foundations of statistics. Heisenberg, in his uncertainty principle, clearly stated that at quantum levels causality is somewhat blurred and some would suggest that causality is ultimately determined by our own consciousness, like Schroedinger's infamous cat, but we won't go there! Indeed, if causality is a victim of state, then thermodynamics must ultimately also be a victim of state and in fact we are apparantly seeing that happening in studies as I have indicated. Can this lead to perpetuality? Not likely, in the sense being discussed here, and it wasn't my intention to imply so. However, you talk of debt and if entropy were the currency, indeed, payback would be great and in fact, it is! Biological systems, for example, are often overlooked by the physicist as models of negative entropy. As oscillating chemical reactions, we are not in equilibrium with our environment, a mandatory requirement for classical thermodynamics. Indeed, we feed ourselves, we grow, we reproduce, construct and inhabit. We decrease entropy! However, we also destroy and ultimately we die, thus paying back that debt, as you indicate we must. In a case for perpetuality, therefore, using these quantum exploits, we may conceive of a state where the displacement of that debt, however large or small it may be, is extended or shifted far beyond our current frame of reference as to become negligible. This does not imply that perpetuality has been attained, but for all intents and purposes ( to us in the here and now), it would appear to be so! Practical? Probably not. Possible? Definitely!

    UFO
    Last edited by ufosarereal; 01-04-09 at 07:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob916 View Post
    There are LOTS of things in this world that we do not know about so I keep an open mind.
    Just because someone says it is not possible doesn't mean that it isn't, it just means that no one has found a way to do it, YET.
    But no so much of an open mind that the wind blows clearly through.
    By the same logic, just because something doesn't exist yet doesn't mean it ever will.

    This is the logic of religion. God exists because you can never prove that he doesn't. The logic works in reverse; God doesn't exist because you can never prove he does.
    It's a null circular and self sustaining argument.

    We've been down this path before here on Austech.
    The infamous "Tachyon".
    Does this particle exist but we can't detect it, or is the reality of the situation that tachyons don't exist, can't exist and we will never detect them and we are only deluding ourselves until we realise that.

    Michaelson - Morley experiment to prove the existence of the aether .
    Was this experiment a failure because it didn't detect an aether ? Of course not, the experiment lead to a new way of thinking and the development of the Theory of Relativity.
    Why didn't the scientists just think to themselves, the aether does exist, we just did something wrong. Our equipment isn't sensitive enough, we need to build it bigger and better and stronger.
    How far down the road do we have to travel to realise it's a dead end ?

    Currently there are two experiments that are running that will have a decisive outcome where the scientists will either have to accept their model is wrong or their model is right and it is the universe that is wrong.

    The first that jumps to mind is Gravity wave detectors. Funny enough this is exactly the same equipment as the Michaelson Morley experiment only bigger and better. What does this experiment say if it doesn't detect gravity waves ?
    It means gravity doesn't work the way we think it does.

    The other experiment is the Large Hadron Collider. It is expected that the Higgs Boson will be detected. If the LHC doesn't find it, then it means once again, there is something wrong with the current model.
    Or maybe we need an even bigger collider ?

    Captain Ahab and his White Whale !


    Practical? Probably not. Possible? Definitely!
    Ah the laws of infinte probability ! Didn't they power a ship on this in Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy ?

    Yes the negative entropy of lifeforms is an amusing example.
    Hydrogen, a colourless odourless gas that given enough time eventually turns into people.

    I guess I'll just have to keep my skeptics hat on for the time being and let some PhD people at ANU make the breakthrough or waste their lives watching sets of scales

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    Junior Member ufosarereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ufosarereal View Post
    Practical? Probably not. Possible? Definitely!
    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    Ah the laws of infinte probability !
    Trash, I am disappointed. I thought you would have given me more credit than that. The practicality I make reference to in my discussion is in terms of allocation of resources, diminishing returns and ultimate application, whilst the probability refers to the technological capacity to do so within the reasonable bounds of extrapolation. I make no implicit, nor explicit reference to infinite probabilities, nor to the attainment of perpetuality for that matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    didn't they power a ship on this in Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy ?
    Did they? I have heard of it, but I haven't read nor seen this guide. What a smart bunch they must have been. I would be happy with just powering my car!

    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    Yes the negative entropy of lifeforms is an amusing example.
    Only given as an example of debt displacement, not unlike a mortgage on life where the currency is entropy and the bank is thermodynamics. No implicit mysteries implied there. Please don't read into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    Hydrogen, a colourless odourless gas that given enough time eventually turns into people.
    You can do better than that! You are an intelligent person so surely you must be aware that I was not speaking in terms of a barrel of monkeys writing Hamlet. Both you and I know that whilst the probability is positive that the time frame for the verification of that possibility is greater than the conceivable age of the universe and therefore negligible.

    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    I guess I'll just have to keep my skeptics hat on for the time being and let some PhD people at ANU make the breakthrough or waste their lives watching sets of scales
    And long live the dreamers for they shall inherit the universe (and the Nobel prize!)

    UFO
    Last edited by ufosarereal; 03-04-09 at 04:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    By the same logic, just because something doesn't exist yet doesn't mean it ever will. < < < tachyons
    .

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    nar, it was just the way that you posted that helped me loose interest.
    It was just one big mass of words, and after a hard day at work, lack of caffeine helping fuel my headache it just didn't make any sense and was just a bucket of words.
    By the time I'd taken a couple of codeines and read it over a couple of times.
    I was convinced it was an extract from Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy.

    If you're trying to sell an idea or concept, it helps to keep the explanation simple. Even for me. Sometimes I just loose the plot. Mmmm Codeine.

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