gamma emulation or copy of ird2?

[fasulye]

I've been thinking about what gw1 said recently in another thread where he alluded to that the gamma as emulating irdeto 2 but ever since the gamma os source code was published my belief is that the gamma is actually a clone. Not in the physical sense as the hardware used in both are different but from the perspective of the software.

Source code created through reverse engineering techniques typically contain code that is assembly in nature. That is, the code is written from observations and hence consists of look-up tables, lots of loops and low level arithmetic and logical functions. In this context the emulation is behavioral based upon observed inputs and outputs.

The gamma source does not have this type of structure. It's clear the code was not written from machine code but from the something more. Possibly from the actual irdeto source code or detail design/functional document. I believe the gamma is running a mostly complete copy of the code.

Maybe I just playing with semantics - emulation/copy....

So who are the gamma team? Its clear they were well resourced, experts in their field and most important financially well backed.

The level of security they included into the gamma, the update delivery mechanism, the commercial model they developed (mix of direct and indirect models), the go-to-market plan, the strategy to develop their own card rather then using the commercially available technologies, have them mass produced and the distribution chain. Most importantly the big bucks they must have paid the irdeto code.

All well thought out. It clear they have made their money, sold most of there stock and the team as dismantled. I hope one day one of them publishes their story.

[aZz]

So who are the gamma team? Its clear they were well resourced, experts in their field and most important financially well backed.

The level of security they included into the gamma, the update delivery mechanism, the commercial model they developed (mix of direct and indirect models), the go-to-market plan, the strategy to develop their own card rather then using the commercially available technologies, have them mass produced and the distribution chain. Most importantly the big bucks they must have paid the irdeto code.
All well thought out. It clear they have made their money, sold most of there stock and the team as dismantled. I hope one day one of them publishes their story.[/QUOTE]


I think blind man freddy can see it was organised by a professinal company thats in the buisness, what other conclussions can you draw?.Certainaly not a backyarder job.

[Godzilla]

NDS? (in one way or another).

Let the conspiracy theories being. LOL

[Cobra1]

I love a good conspiracy so lets not forget the pay tv company owners them selves. Grossly over priced services of which they justify to combat piracy. Then release gamma in its varying configurations at hefty prices. Then alter the stream slightly to get you to pay for a fix, then alter it again to get even more money for another fix. Take out all third party boxes while they are at it. Then finally change the encryption to kill all the gamma card access.
This of course pisses alot of people off who have been burned for mega bucks for cards upgrades and equipement and many of these move on because a payed sub in comparison is cheaper. This then leaves you with the die hard hobbiests that generally have payed subs anyway. In the mean time the hobbiests have been distracted from their original hobbie and have to pick up again but with a slightly different encryption system. Basically starting from scratch again. So 12 to 18 months protection for the pay tv providers. So they would be laughing all the way to the bank. You have payed subs, gamma's, sellers, upgrades, new decoders and now faced with a new altered encryption system to break. Pirates have payed for the upgrades and changes and given them 12 to 18 months before it becomes a probable thorn in their side again. May be i'm wrong but it would be smart business. Just look at what it has cost you multiplied by however many cards have been produced. Big bucks! But of course they would deny this to keep up the prices on payed subs to cover the so called costs of piracy losses. How's that for a conspiracy theory?

[crypto7]

conspiracy theory

Its like candy and the baby.....
If you can buy it, you dont want it ... "what a rip off"...
But if its free, i only need to buy the gear ... "what great value" (even if it costs you more...)
Now that you have had it, your kids are hooked and cant live without it... so you now buy the sub.....

You cant take the candy off the baby.....

[best4less]

You calling me a baby mate LOL

[LeroyPatrol]

It's good that Select now has Playhouse because the kids request it a bit now! I can take it or leave it these days....

Leroy

[malrose]

I like to think that irdeto IS gammateam or what ever you want to call them which is behind all of this..

Through some dodgey third party channels, have released just enough information for certain mules to create the whitey and distribute them which would then attract a market that normally would not subscibe to pay tv...

As irdeto is a propriatry company, and sells/leases there encrytion to many pay tv providers, I dont beleive A**** or whoever uses there encryption would know how it works. Just make a call to Mr irdeto and say "Hey, we have this problem with pirate cards and your encryption system". " Never fear, irdeto is here!!!" They wipe out all the dodgey cards (that they created and making a nice bonus on the side) and look like a saviour to mr Aus***..


How long before a NEW card with a an extravagant name, that can do this and that appears?

Flame away..

Mal..

[Woodie]

probably was one of the big players out there, would be good to know all there sub companies they have setup what profit, loss costs was done in the last 24 months who payed who etc, etc..


Even funnier would be the feds busting one of them for Industrial espionage or a insurance SCAM lol...


What a load of crap thinking people will keeping paying for a service to keep the kids happy if you can't afford it.

Who ever looks after the marketing of any company want to get there head read.

[gw1]

the gamma is actually a clone. Not in the physical sense as the hardware used in both are different but from the perspective of the software.

Yes, of course it is. That's exactly what an emulator is: a program that's crafted to act the same way as another.

Source code created through reverse engineering techniques typically contain code that is assembly in nature.

Not necessarily. You're perhaps thinking of MAME which emulates hardware but not software. MAME maintains a careful distinction between the two, refraining from integrating game ROMs into its code base for legal reasons (if they used any game manufacturer code they'd be in breach of copyright). More broadly though the purpose of an emulator is to mimic behaviour, and which aspects of the behaviour are done by hardware vs software is irrelevant. Clone CAMs (Joker, Matrix et al) and receiver softcam modules are about reimplementing behaviour. Sometimes it's beneficial or necessary to do certain things in hardware, sometimes in assembly code. Most provider cards are written in C with a smattering of assembly code to configure special registers (stack, timers, interrupts, I/O, crypto coprocessor etc).

The gamma source does not have this type of structure. It's clear the code was not written from machine code but from the something more.

No, it too was written in C with (as I recall) a smattering of assembly. It was an emulator - an implementation of Irdeto 2 algorithm. It's based either on leaked/stolen Irdeto source or on ROM extracted by microprobing. To my mind the latter is more likely, but a little bird told me GAMMA all came about because of the former scenario. Who knows. Either way the process of writing GAMMA was not porting but reimplementation, generalising and tweaking to make it more resistant to countermeasures (in the same way that Irdeto 1 emulators changed things, eg no coco).

Most importantly the big bucks

The big bucks would have been for the microprobing. There are plenty of places that can do it but it's very expensive, far beyond the budget of even the most hardcore of enthusiasts.

[machine]

It's clear the code was written from machine code .

I deny all knowledge of any code

machine

[Jason_dinAlt]

methinks it was:

1. mindworks generating new income, ie roll out new cards, new algorythms, new ca systems, you dont think the paytv providers get the after purchase support for free do you? each step, well to combat this you have to pay this to get our boys on the job, every next step, more dollar, or

2. there was a very disgruntled ex mindport employee who either sold his soul or just wanted to get some payback, or

3. a very well financed asian or arab crime syndicate paid a lot of dollars to reverse engineer the cards, like the nds lackey did for nds, they made their bucks back and a few more, and have now shot thru, or

4. ND$ attempt to take out Irdeto, and not much out there left to compete with, is there, problem is, mindport seems to have temporarlily solved the problem here with unique ca and firmware in provider boxes, for now

my bet is on number 1

[tonyboyth]

methinks it was:
3. a very well financed asian or arab crime syndicate paid a lot of dollars to reverse engineer the cards, like the nds lackey did for nds, they made their bucks back and a few more, and have now shot thru, or

I don't have any objections but the way you mentioned to either Asian or Arab sound like some kind of DISCRIMINATION.

[xrfr8]

i think possibly he said asian or arab crime syndicate because they are the only 2 race's with enough money to fund something of that scale, lol. The rest of the world has gone broke if the news tells the truth...

[gw1]

It's not discrimination, it's a compliment - giving credit for a job well done

[Jason_dinAlt]

no discrimination was intended, just going from memories on when "Irdetofarkers" were boasting on the international forums that they had broken Irdeto.

[bigfella08]

C'Mon we all know where the code came from...

Everyones mate who just got banned again pulled it out of he's arse...

[sathack60]

I thought it came from the frankston........:-)