VL problem - what next ! problem solved !!

**skookumchuck** · 25-03-09, 02:45 PM

Thanks every one for your input. After 3 AFM's problem was solved after one that wasn't stuffed worked okay ! The trouble is that it was off a car that was running and now i need to seach for a good one. expensive exercise that ! cost about $600 all up plus buying another car ! originally it was the distributor and putting it back 180 degrees out made it backfire and blew the heat wires out ! from there my troubles began. ah well all good experience. thanks again godzilla, moof, intelligeorge.
cheers

**skookumchuck** · 28-03-09, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by skookumchuck

Thanks every one for your input. After 3 AFM's problem was solved after one that wasn't stuffed worked okay ! The trouble is that it was off a car that was running and now i need to seach for a good one. expensive exercise that ! cost about $600 all up plus buying another car ! originally it was the distributor and putting it back 180 degrees out made it backfire and blew the heat wires out ! from there my troubles began. ah well all good experience. thanks again godzilla, moof, intelligeorge.
cheers

well i thought the problem was solved !! still won't run and idle properly. coughs and farts and pops. can't seem to get the timing right. i think that it has to be the timing belt. i did put another one in and it wasn't running right so i put it one tooth on. seemed to run okay for a while until the dist. electrode wore out then my troubles began as you know. not sure what to do now. getting the battery charged at the moment. it'll give me time to think.

**Godzilla** · 28-03-09, 08:18 PM

Have you got a timing light, check you ignition base setting.

Remove your belt cover, place the engine on TDC and check your factory pulley marks line up to the factory settings.

Really sounds like a timing (cam to dizzy) problem. Follow the factory settings.

**intelliGEORGE** · 29-03-09, 01:27 AM

We did overlook the crank angle sensor I think?

Anyhow...

Try the following test;

Check the Crank Angle Sensor.

Test when Key On Engine Off;

On top of the distributor is a 4 pin harness plug, this is the Crank Angle Sensor. With this plug removed test the voltage on each pin of the female harness plug against ground (engine earth or battery negative) with the ignition on (Key On Engine Off).

You should have 12v (from the EFI relay), earth (Ov), and on the remaining 2 pins - 5v on each (from ECU).

Test when engine cranking;

Ensure the distributor shaft is turning during cranking.

With the engine cranking these 2 wires which had 5v on each are the important signals you are after, expect approx. 2.3v on one and 0.3v on the other.

If the Crank Angle Sensor has failed expect close to 5v OR close to 0.0v on one or both. If the signals are BOTH within 20% of specs this is ok.

**skookumchuck** · 29-03-09, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by intelliGEORGE

We did overlook the crank angle sensor I think?

Anyhow...

Try the following test;

Check the Crank Angle Sensor.

Test when Key On Engine Off;

On top of the distributor is a 4 pin harness plug, this is the Crank Angle Sensor. With this plug removed test the voltage on each pin of the female harness plug against ground (engine earth or battery negative) with the ignition on (Key On Engine Off).

You should have 12v (from the EFI relay), earth (Ov), and on the remaining 2 pins - 5v on each (from ECU).

Test when engine cranking;

Ensure the distributor shaft is turning during cranking.

With the engine cranking these 2 wires which had 5v on each are the important signals you are after, expect approx. 2.3v on one and 0.3v on the other.

If the Crank Angle Sensor has failed expect close to 5v OR close to 0.0v on one or both. If the signals are BOTH within 20% of specs this is ok.

when i took it in to the mechanic shop he tested the dizzy and he said that the crank angle sensor was new. this was the one i got from the wrecker. but i'll do a test on it anyway. it's got to be something like a loose wire or something simple like that. i hope !! get back to you..

**skookumchuck** · 29-03-09, 03:01 AM

Originally Posted by Godzilla

Have you got a timing light, check you ignition base setting.

Remove your belt cover, place the engine on TDC and check your factory pulley marks line up to the factory settings.

Really sounds like a timing (cam to dizzy) problem. Follow the factory settings.

yeah it has to be something to do with it i'm sure. i'll check it after the cas check. get back to you.

**skookumchuck** · 29-03-09, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by intelliGEORGE

We did overlook the crank angle sensor I think?

Anyhow...

Try the following test;

Check the Crank Angle Sensor.

Test when Key On Engine Off;

On top of the distributor is a 4 pin harness plug, this is the Crank Angle Sensor. With this plug removed test the voltage on each pin of the female harness plug against ground (engine earth or battery negative) with the ignition on (Key On Engine Off).

You should have 12v (from the EFI relay), earth (Ov), and on the remaining 2 pins - 5v on each (from ECU).

Test when engine cranking;

Ensure the distributor shaft is turning during cranking.

With the engine cranking these 2 wires which had 5v on each are the important signals you are after, expect approx. 2.3v on one and 0.3v on the other.

If the Crank Angle Sensor has failed expect close to 5v OR close to 0.0v on one or both. If the signals are BOTH within 20% of specs this is ok.

** did the check on the cas plug and 5 v on the 1st two, 12v on the next which is the earth but i had to fiddle with it to get it and nothing on the last which is the efi relay !! so i think that that could be my problem ? i'll have to either get another 4 pin harness plug from the wreckers or take off the cover and repair it. what do you reckon ?

**skookumchuck** · 29-03-09, 03:21 PM

how do i get the contacts out of the 4 pin plug ? i thought i would take them out and clean or fix them but i can't see a way of taking them out. do they push through or can they be pulled out from the back ? i didn't want to cut and solder another plug on as i'm not that good at it plus there isn't much play with the wires and i'd probably make more of a mess than anything. any ideas ?

**skookumchuck** · 29-03-09, 07:39 PM

managed to get the efi pin out and tested it. showed nothing so it must be a break in the wire somewhere. pushed the multimeter pin in along the wire a bit and still didn't show a reading. where does the end of it finish up ? i don't want to cut the harness and trace it. it seems to collect other wires and head down around the back of the motor ! i'll check the manual. good win by jenson button !

**intelliGEORGE** · 29-03-09, 09:30 PM

the EFI relay should be in the fuse box or in the engine bay, maybe you have a dicky relay causing the problem. It's so hard to diagnose over the net lol, but im sure we'll get there. Big learning curve for everyone.

**Godzilla** · 29-03-09, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by intelliGEORGE

It's so hard to diagnose over the net lol, but im sure we'll get there.

Your not wrong there George.

I just went back through 2 other older threads posted by skookumchuck, i think all the correct advice has been given by both of us.

Unfortunately i think the investigating has not been correctly followed.

Talk about jumping from dizzies, injectors to speed sensors to throttle position switches.

And still the same problems LOL

Maybe it needs a baseball bat and a call to the insurance company the next day.

**skookumchuck** · 30-03-09, 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by Godzilla

Your not wrong there George.

I just went back through 2 other older threads posted by skookumchuck, i think all the correct advice has been given by both of us.

Unfortunately i think the investigating has not been correctly followed.

Talk about jumping from dizzies, injectors to speed sensors to throttle position switches.

And still the same problems LOL

Maybe it needs a baseball bat and a call to the insurance company the next day.

ah comon gozilla i didn't know much about mechanics before this problem started but i'm learning really fast !! i've tried to do it all myself and it's been really frustrating. the thing that would throw me was after i would test this and that it would go for a while then stuff up so i would go to the next thing that could cause it. i reckon it is a loose wire or faulty connection. now i've traced it to the EFI cas wire in the 4 pin plug i've got to find what is causing it. i need to find the efi control unit and as george said it could be in the fuse box or at the back of the motor ! get back to you both on progress !

**skookumchuck** · 30-03-09, 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by intelliGEORGE

the EFI relay should be in the fuse box or in the engine bay, maybe you have a dicky relay causing the problem. It's so hard to diagnose over the net lol, but im sure we'll get there. Big learning curve for everyone.

i was talking to this guy and he said the black wire in the plug is the earth wire and shouldn't have any voltage coming through it ?? it goes yellow, white , orange and black. black is toward the motor yellow is toward the radiator. he said to check the readings on the throttle position sensor but i'm sure it was checked by the mechanic shop or i would hope so. i'll give it a check tomorrow. cheers

**skookumchuck** · 30-03-09, 04:56 PM

really cleaned the male and female pins from the dizzy and put it back and started it. much better but still missing and chugging a bit. at least it starts better and keeps running a bit longer. enough for me to grab the throttle cable and keep it running. moved the TPS and seemed to make no difference. had a good look around and sounds like only 4 or 5 plugs are working but they are all new. pulled off the vacuum hose near the tps and seemed better but only fractionally but didn't make any difference to the chugging only idled a bit faster. had to keep my hand on the throttle cable to keep up the revs. going to have a good look at all the hoses and check the codes again.

**intelliGEORGE** · 30-03-09, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by skookumchuck

...and check the codes again.

Make sure you clear the ECU first, so you can get fresh codes and not ones that are stuck in memory.

**skookumchuck** · 30-03-09, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by intelliGEORGE

Make sure you clear the ECU first, so you can get fresh codes and not ones that are stuck in memory.

started it and it seems to be pumping too much fuel. black smoke as i rev it up and really sounds as if it was chugging because of too much fuel. changed the tps and started it up and still running hugely rich. took the leads off the tps sensor and it made no difference. so, i'll study my manual and see. looks like i may have to start over again and take the injectors out and check them along with all the leads and hoses. not looking forward to it. i'll check the codes again before i do it. i'll sleep on it first !

**Redwight** · 31-03-09, 03:05 AM

I have seen enough people not make sure that the plug lead contacts were in the right place to wonder why every guy think they know how to fix engines, have you made sure that the plug contacts are on; not just the boots?

**exited** · 31-03-09, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by skookumchuck

started it and it seems to be pumping too much fuel. black smoke as i rev it up and really sounds as if it was chugging because of too much fuel. !

How does it run when cold ? And how well does it "start" when cold and hot ?

Unless I've missed something I haven't seen any talk on the MAP sensor yet

**skookumchuck** · 01-04-09, 02:21 AM

Originally Posted by Redwight

I have seen enough people not make sure that the plug lead contacts were in the right place to wonder why every guy think they know how to fix engines, have you made sure that the plug contacts are on; not just the boots?

yeah redwight i took all the plugs out and replaced them today and so did the mechanic last week. i changed the ecu computer, did all the tests again with all the sensors and cleaned the pins etc. it idles a litle bit better but it still starts to miss and chug when i slowly pull on the accelerator cable. if i increase a little quicker it runs better but you can still hear it poping and spurting. the mechanic next door is up for a few days and we have been working and trying to isolate the problem and he's at a loss to what it is. he was working from his detailed workshop manual that mechanics have. the only thing now is to check the pulse from the injectors. not sure if i can get one. and if that is okay i'll have to take the injectors out again and go through the whole checking process again soon!

**skookumchuck** · 01-04-09, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by POWERZONE

How does it run when cold ? And how well does it "start" when cold and hot ?

Unless I've missed something I haven't seen any talk on the MAP sensor yet

a bit hard to start when cold. a couple of times it tried to start and it seemed as if it was out of timing you know turns then stops as if it wants to go the other way, but after a few goes it's okay. once a little warm seems to start okay. i've check the timing with the cam belt cover off and it's spot on. i've squirted aero-start around the air intake manifold but doesn't seem to make any difference. it's got me puzzled ?
what's the map sensor ? do you mean the maf sensor ? the mass air flow sensor or the AFM - air flow meter.