IP video skills set

[CCTVguru]

I am interested in what others feel is a reasonable skills set for installing and servicing IP video systems and how we as an industry can imrove on the shortage of skilled technicians to support this technology.

I see the IT industry progressivally winnig projects with products that are distributed by IT wholesalers and do not give the results the clients need.

Who knows of some formal training in IP CCTV that is not specific to a manufacturer?

[IPAlarms]

I am interested in what others feel is a reasonable skills set for installing and servicing IP video systems and how we as an industry can imrove on the shortage of skilled technicians to support this technology.

Hi Chris,

I guess that would depend if we are talking about a 32 camera system with onsite/offsite recording, a multitude of camera/lens requirements, long cable runs, differing lighting requirements and so on, and so on....

That type of job would normally be handled by well trained tech's from the larger companies out there - just as it is now using analogue systems.

If we are talking about 3 or 4 simple IP Cameras in a small business or home, then I reckon a lot of customers will want to self install. There are so many people in the younger generation that have no fear of IP. Their expectations of a decent picture will be a lot lower than those of anyone from the security industry - and therein lies the problem.

I see the IT industry progressivally winning projects with products that are distributed by IT wholesalers and do not give the results the clients need.

That may be true in a small number of cases, but you have to ask yourself why they will win the majority of projects...

1. They are professional
2. They charge sensible rates
3. They have years of experience with IP

Compare that with the security industry...

1. They are lazy, corrupt and disorganised
2. They will try to rip the customer for every cent they can
3. PSTN and all things analogue rule

There are obviously exceptions to the rule in both industries and there are guys on here that certainly know their stuff. Generally though, I think the IT sector will clean up.

My two cents

[intelliGEORGE]

Who knows of some formal training in IP CCTV that is not specific to a manufacturer?

I think these four should be the bare minimum, then it is up to individual suppliers to provide training on their range of equipment.

[intelliGEORGE]

Generally though, I think the IT sector will clean up.

My two cents

I think you're wrong, most of the younger generation in the Security field are more switched on when it comes to the TCP/IP protocol. It's just the old dinosaurs still out there, that are to afraid to migrate towards the light.

[CCTVguru]

I think you're wrong, most of the younger generation in the Security field are more switched on when it comes to the TCP/IP protocol. It's just the old dinosaurs still out there, that are to afraid to migrate towards the light.

Agreed but unfortunatally it the dinosaurs that still do much of the quoting and system design.
Experience is great but a mind set shift needs to be made, allowing the younger, more IT skilled techs to step up and be involved.

[Security-Tech]

Hi Chris,

Compare that with the security industry...

1. They are lazy, corrupt and disorganised
2. They will try to rip the customer for every cent they can
3. PSTN and all things analogue rule


My two cents

I'm just hoping that MR ip alarms isn't going to try and recruit any security companies or Australians into his entrepreneurship, because if anyone reads his first quote above, then he wont get to far by abusing and slandering the very people he is trying to convince.

Honestly, how can you expect an industry that is behind in the times to get on top of advanced technologies overnight, primarily the dinosaurs as mentioned. It will take time and effort.

One only has to ponder why certain individuals occupy residency outside Australian soil and don't have their visa's renewed, I heard a rumor that a certain Nut didn't pay his GST and spent his time surfing all day while his wife slaved away in the thai takeaway.

Here's one for you lads, the rebates that we all receive are only a portion of the telco's profit, these rebates have been around for a long time and there has been no change, I can't see what all the fuss is over, Just a nut trying to crack an egg shell.

I hear that Mr nuts service isn't all secure, the packets aren't even encrypted, so if you wish to mimic his signals to create havoc it wouldn't be to hard, and it only takes less than 3 minutes to get around his password on the device, I also hear that he will back door you, after you have setup a network of connections and then go behind your back and undercut you and take your clients from you.

BE WEARY of the nut case, you can't prosecute a NON Australian resident to easily !

[IPAlarms]

Agreed but unfortunatally it the dinosaurs that still do much of the quoting and system design.

Correct - and they will stick with what they know. Analogue

Experience is great but a mind set shift needs to be made, allowing the younger, more IT skilled techs to step up and be involved.

I think the pricing of IP has to fall below that of analogue to start shifting those minds. You might find the following article interesting....

[intelliGEORGE]

I think the pricing of IP has to fall below that of analogue to start shifting those minds.

You don't need to drop any pricing at all. You need to educate the consumer on the value of IP over analogue.

It is a fact, to achieve the same video quality and coverage you need approx 4 analogue cameras as opposed to one Megapixel IP. Look at my other posts for cost comparisons and benefits of IP over analogue.

[intelliGEORGE]

I hear that Mr nuts service isn't all secure, the packets aren't even encrypted, so if you wish to mimic his signals to create havoc it wouldn't be to hard, and it only takes less than 3 minutes to get around his password on the device, I also hear that he will back door you, after you have setup a network of connections and then go behind your back and undercut you and take your clients from you.

Well after all it is only a Linksys ATA.

[CCTVguru]

Correct - and they will stick with what they know. Analogue


I think the pricing of IP has to fall below that of analogue to start shifting those minds. You might find the following article interesting....

Not true. It's about education. Most DVR users are still furstrated with aspects of thier system and if they were correctly advised about what a QUALITY IP system can do for them, most will buy.

I am constantly selling against cheaper DVR solutions and wining the jobs if I can get in front of the end user.
You need to first understand thier requirements and provide a solution. Not just sell them a bunch of cameras and recordings.

Do they have frustrations in extracting video?
are there other sites or multiple building they would like to monitor as one system?
Do they need to have a HLI integration to access control?
Would EPOS integration help?
Number plate recognition?
Audio PA paging through the IP CCTV system?
HD cameras?
Analytics on live and palyback?
Would the time to add 1 more camera post installation be excessive? A network will remove home run cabling.
Is the system ever going to be over 16 cameras? 1 more camera will require another $5000 DVR

Ask the questions that make the CCTV system do more!

[IPAlarms]

.... getting back on topic,

CCTVGuru, IntelliGEORGE and most others on here will be focussed on the mid-high end megapixel market - and that's cool. I'm not familier with that end of the market so I won't comment on how quickly IP will be adopted.

My focus is mainstream video verification for residential and small commercial properties. There is no requirement for onsite recording and importance is placed more on how quickly monitoring operators can access images for an alarm event.

Uptake of IP in this sector is already well underway in North America due to the verified response policy - where police will not attend site without video evidence of an intrusion in progress. I think it will be another 3 or 4 years before there is any interest in Australia.

The skill set for connecting a few IP cameras into a router is quite low and the hardest bit is understanding port forwarding and dynamic DNS. Once your average security tech gets over those hurdles, he will be well positioned to move into that sector of the market and give the IT guys a run for their money.

[CCTVguru]

.... getting back on topic,

CCTVGuru, IntelliGEORGE and most others on here will be focussed on the mid-high end megapixel market - and that's cool. I'm not familier with that end of the market so I won't comment on how quickly IP will be adopted.

My focus is mainstream video verification for residential and small commercial properties. There is no requirement for onsite recording and importance is placed more on how quickly monitoring operators can access images for an alarm event.

Uptake of IP in this sector is already well underway in North America due to the verified response policy - where police will not attend site without video evidence of an intrusion in progress. I think it will be another 3 or 4 years before there is any interest in Australia.

The skill set for connecting a few IP cameras into a router is quite low and the hardest bit is understanding port forwarding and dynamic DNS. Once your average security tech gets over those hurdles, he will be well positioned to move into that sector of the market and give the IT guys a run for their money.

Uptake of Megapixel is not what I am talking about. Yes there is a market there but is is still developing.
Using either existing analogue cameras already installed or new IP cameras (not specifically megapixel) there are massive advantages over conventional system.
3-4 years is way out. If DVR's are still common in 2 years I will be amazed!

As for monitoring. That is what IndigoVision is all about. Low bandwidth real time off site monitoring. We have control rooms in Australia doing this and a press release was put out last week of an overseas one

if you have ADSL we can monitor the video. Link the alarm to the video and you have a solution. Even at 64Kbps I can get average quality video for verification.

[Privatteer]

Having used the indigo vision analogue to IP encoders on a job organised by others I would never touch them again.

Worse output than many cheap DVR's couldn't make out a face from 3-4m at max res. Only response I could get out of Rexel at the time was the 3Ghz P4 PC not fast enough, for one camera..........

IP is coming, just takes time to get its share. These days I carry a 1.3MP camera as a demo unit, great for showing the client the vast improvement.
Starting to get a few nice offerings of management software that are not brand specific.

Older Techs just don't want to know about it, but that's fine with me

[CCTVguru]

Having used the indigo vision analogue to IP encoders on a job organised by others I would never touch them again.

Worse output than many cheap DVR's couldn't make out a face from 3-4m at max res. Only response I could get out of Rexel at the time was the 3Ghz P4 PC not fast enough, for one camera..........

IP is coming, just takes time to get its share. These days I carry a 1.3MP camera as a demo unit, great for showing the client the vast improvement.
Starting to get a few nice offerings that are not brand specific.

Older Techs just don't want to know about it, but that's fine with me

Sorry to hear that but Rexel have miss informed you.
I am guessing that either the graphics card was not to spec OR the codec bandwidth was capped too low.

Note: Intel 915G and 945G integrated graphics are not recommended for use with Control Center.
• 30MB hard disk space (for Control Center installation), plus enough disk space to store the map bitmap files.
• 512MB RAM for up to 16 streams
• 1024MB RAM for up to 64 streams
• Graphics card with 50GB/s or above. GDDR3 or later memory technology is recommended. The system has been tested with the following cards:
• ATI Radeon Toxic HD3870
• GeForce 9600 GT 512MB GDDR3 Dual DVI
For multiple monitors (up to four), use two dual-output graphics cards if this configuration is supported by the motherboard.

Give me a call to discuss fixing it 0437 169 195.

[IPAlarms]

3-4 years is way out. If DVR's are still common in 2 years I will be amazed!

I'm afraid you are in for some disappointment.

As for monitoring. That is what IndigoVision is all about. Low bandwidth real time off site monitoring.

We are comparing apples with oranges. Video Verification uses snapshot technology for "event only" recording. I think you are more into motion video at x FPS, gaurd tours and the like.

Link the alarm to the video and you have a solution.

Can you share with us how you do that ?

[intelliGEORGE]

Can you share with us how you do that ?

Low Level Interface (LLI) or High Level Interface (HLI) take your pick Steve...

[IPAlarms]

Low Level Interface (LLI) or High Level Interface (HLI) take your pick Steve...

OK - let me be more specific and provide a sample scenario...

You have a simple 8 zone alarm panel with 8 PIR detectors protecting 8 rooms. You fit an IP camera into each of those 8 rooms. If an intruder enters room number 5 - where is the "logic" that decides to record from camera number 5 ? (in the alarm panel, gateway, camera or server software ?)

If the intruder moves to room number 2 and triggers the PIR - recording should then be concentrated on camera 2.

Explain how you do that with both a LLI and HLI.

Edit: Please tell me you're not relying on camera motion detection.

[CCTVguru]

Can you share with us how you do that ?

With my system via a low level contact into a 32 EOL monitored input IP alarm panel or into the alarm inputs at the camer/encoder.
On bigger systems via a HLI. We have writen interfaces to 22 access control systems and growing.

The camera VMD is not suitable to use as it is not even as good as compared with a low cost PIR.

VMD can be used to change frame rates and resolution as can the alarm inputs.

We typically setup every camera to record at 25ips and use activity controlled frame rate (ACF) to drop back to a lower frame rate on no motion. In a typical business scene this uses less than 2GB per day.
A secondary stream at a lower resolution is then streamed to the monitoring company.

We have 100 camera systems recording 24/7 with 10TB for 30 days using this method.

Using a SDK, you can also create your own HLI if you are into simple programming.

[IPAlarms]

With my system via a low level contact into a 32 EOL monitored input IP alarm panel or into the alarm inputs at the camer/encoder.
On bigger systems via a HLI. We have writen interfaces to 22 access control systems and growing.

Just as I thought - you are dealing with a totally different type of customer than us. Your company is obviously focussed on high value large commercial, industrial, military and governmental type applications. Big $$$$$$'s.

Using a SDK, you can also create your own HLI if you are into simple programming.

We have already integrated our platform with the 3 most popular "mainstream" vendors... Axis, Panasonic and Sercomm. We have SDK's from lot's of other manufacturers but have no plans for any special integration as their equipment costs are way out of reach for the average man in the street. If a camera is not sub US$100 - then it simply will not be considered by the large volume dealers for video verification.

We have to keep our platform as generic as possible as our dealers have to support a vast number of different makes and models of IP camera. If a camera can provide a jpeg image via a snapshot command - then it can be used for video verification with our platform. This flexibility covers us for approx 95% of cameras on the market.

We are also tasked with interfacing every make and model of EXISTING alarm panel out in the field. We are able to do this through our range of IP alarm communicators. We also have to cater for cameras installed behind multiple routers in places like apartment blocks where the installer is not allowed access to the main router and port forwarding just doesn't cut it. Again, we have developed special NAT traversal techniques in order to get the job done.

As you will know only too well, all we need is for the recession to end so that companies will have the cash necessary to start their migration to IP

[CCTVguru]

Just as I thought - you are dealing with a totally different type of customer than us. Your company is obviously focused on high value large commercial, industrial, military and governmental type applications. Big $$$$$$'s.

Yes we are an enterprise solution but also do many smaller projects but not Sub $100

If a camera can provide a jpeg image via a snapshot command - then it can be used for video verification with our platform. This flexibility covers us for approx 95% of cameras on the market.

Understood. We can snap shot a JPG on one or all cameras either from an alarm or manually from a remote operator on both the live and playback

As you will know only too well, all we need is for the recession to end so that companies will have the cash necessary to start their migration to IP

We are not in a recession as yet.
If you are feeling the pinch maybe move away from the $100 camera market and get in to a high level solution.
There is no foreseeable shortage of work.