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Thread: Off road navigation with Tomtom

  1. #21
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    In fact it is claimed to be "the best way of doing it" by quite some providers of digital maps ,becaus ECW is a widely accepted format for professional use...
    Converting into calibrated ECV from an image is a pain the a....
    OZI tried to use it at the beginning but was forced to abandon it due to immense fees to be paid for it - so they made their own format.
    Well pretty much every one uses their own formats ,Nokia,Tomtom,Garmin,OZI,Magellan... And none of it is compatible because they all need to make money.
    The holy grail for maps would be a tool to cross-convert all formats : good bye to missing areas on your map ,just switch to a Garmin topo map and in the city to your Igo or Tomtom map...
    I would even consider paying $100 for ttmaps if it would include Garmin or OZI map usage.
    The author claims that maps from the open street map community can be used - but they are almost useless here...
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  • #22
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    BTW not too many of the Hema map series have better than 1:250,000 resolution.

    The pixel resolution of the Natmap 250k is 31.8m/ pixel

    Fraser island and maybe one or two others are better.

    So the best Hema Fraser island map is 16.52 ..... or around the 100k equivalent.

    25k maps are in the order of 4.6m/ pixel.

  • #23
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    Great Desert Tracks and most of the national parks are available in 1:25000 - lots of data and about $100-180 per map...
    I've tried to order them in bulk for a better price but no chance so far...
    Everything in between 1:200000 and 1:50000 would be great - you only need something for orientation in the bush ,not the direction to the next pub
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  • #24
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    Finally I found a piece of software that is able to convert digital maps into the ECW format.
    Of course the ttmpas software is still unwilling to accept these maps because the Australian projection formats are not fully supportet.
    My only source so far are old OZI Explorer topo maps and maps used by the CFA - but all over 7 years old.
    If someone could provide some actual maps for Victoria I would try it again.
    Otherwise if you have digital maps for your local area and willing to test I could try to transform some map files for you.
    I think we will get ttmaps to a usable status soon!
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    The first usable maps are ready !
    This is a collection of all Australian states - they are not very detailed ,more like an overview but good enough to be able to do some basic tests with ttmaps or to find your way back home if you're lost in the desert

    PW : downunder
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  • #26
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    Good work Downunder,

    Did you calibrate the state map ECW's using the ttMaps tutorial procedure, or some other?

  • #27
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    I'm using a high end commercial software used for GPS mapping.
    Usually running on a in-car-computer to record sereal GPS and motion sensors ,something like the stuff Google used for street view.
    Took me endless sleepless night to figure out the right settings and is still messing up.
    But mostly because of the Australian map projection formats:
    Most Australian maps are based on the MGA zones ,they "slice Australia every 6 degree longitude.
    As long as a mapset stays in one zone I still can convert it - if overlaps I would have to manually checkk hundreds of map slices and sort out which are in one zone together.
    I noticed that some of the newer OZI Explorer maps are in good detail that they are available in 1:100000 and better sometimes.
    The CFA maps are usable too ,but with the problem of the MGA zones it is hard to get them sorted in the right order.

    I still think it will be possible to start a good collection of maps for the use on our beloved Tomtom's!
    For the tesing I'm mainly focused on Victoris ,because here I can test them if I find some time for it.
    Please feel free to suggest what map areas are in high demand and if I get a set of usable maps to convert in the same post I will try my best to convert them.
    I personally think the usual weekend locations like state forests ,national parks and maybe "blind spots" like some parts of th NT would be interesting.
    You use the Tomtom to get to your favorite 4WD destination and switch over to ttmaps to see how "lost" you really are
    Sounds like fun for me....
    I will try to upload a more detailed map of Victoria later on.
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  • #28
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    Here is a more detailed map of Victoria :




    This map is a few years old but it is far better than the state map uploaded before.
    Copy the files into a folder in your map directory e.g. "Victoria".
    Delete the index file in the mapdirectory or re-index the maps in the menu under preferences.
    I have not figured out yet why I sometimes can't switch between different maps - but I will figure out and let you know.
    Currently I'm working on a detailed 1:25000 map of the Toolangi-Black Ranges National Park (Rooftop map). The scanning is done ,now comes the long boring part of calibrating....

    If have any good OZI Explorer maps pleas upload them so that they can be converted to be used with TTmaps.
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  • #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Downunder35m
    The first usable maps are ready !
    This is a collection of all Australian states - they are not very detailed ,more like an overview but good enough to be able to do some basic tests with ttmaps or to find your way back home if you're lost in the desert
    Hello,

    I have looked at your maps, but they are not correct ! They are distorted, because you have used the "GEODETIC" projection. Remember that you must always use the original projection of the maps.
    Look at for the list of the projections that ttMaps supports, and ask the author if you need to add more projections.

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  • #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcr83 View Post
    Hello,

    I have looked at your maps, but they are not correct ! They are distorted, because you have used the "GEODETIC" projection. Remember that you must always use the original projection of the maps.
    Look at for the list of the projections that ttMaps supports, and ask the author if you need to add more projections.
    I'm not so sure about that ,because you can recalculate the projection and datum with the right software.
    For the transfer of the data I'm using a $2400 piece of professional software that is used by mapmakers to transfer the data from one format to the other.
    Which map did you test?
    The Victoria state map was as original an old Ozi Explorer map with only 2 calibration points per tile - but it still shows me my position...
    The poor picture quality (if you mean that by "distorted" is not my fault - the original is already that bad(that's why you can't zoom into it properly too).
    I can send you an example of the original files to compare if you like?
    I just finnished a map of the Toolangi-Black ranges area in 1:25000 and if I check some positions with Google maps and with my mapping software it accurate within 5meters.
    Maybe it is the source of the Victoria map tha was not perfectly calibrated as I used the provided .map files.
    On top of the Victoria map is over 8years old... It is just to give you an overview so that you can play around with the software till more maps are available.


    But anyway here is a Rooftop map in 1:25000 of the . PW : downunder
    3 calibration points per tile - tested agaist Google Earth and will be road testd by myself as soon as get some time for a big trip.
    Last edited by Downunder35m; 06-07-09 at 11:49 PM.
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    I have uploaded a sample of a correct map for ttMaps :


    As you can see, the map is not distorted. It is perfectly rectangular. The datum is GDA94 and the projection is MGA56.

    WGS84/GEODETIC should never be used, except for Google Earth images (or similar).

    You don't need expensive tools to make good maps for ttMaps, free software is OK.

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    You still have not answered what map of mine you tried ,so I assume it was the Australia State ?
    The source is a picture accompanied by a .map file - not a digital map.
    It is rather old and I don't know how you do it ,but if the source is not "perfectly rectangular" - how do you adjust it to be perfect??
    What was the source of your Sydney map?
    Have you considered testing my other maps as well?

    You can only provide a good map if your source is good - thats why I said the State maps and the Victoria map are more or less only for testing the program because they are not detailed enough anyway.
    By the way the other maps should be rectangular ,because the source was rectangular - except for some of parts of the Victoria map (some tiles where provided with a different northing).

    Maybe it would be a nice idea to "join the club" and share your knowledge and maps ?
    I'm pretty sure there are user here ho would like to use this software ,so wee all can use good maps.
    With a good map source I will be able to provide a good rectangular ,alingned and calibrated map - I can't improve a source of low quality ,sorry.
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    I have tried all of your maps.

    The Sydney map is a scan of the NatMap Sydney special edition 2 (1/250000).
    The projection is "Map Grid of Australia 1994", and the datum is GDA94.

    I'd like to see one of your original maps (for example a state map) and try to convert it using the right projection. Can you upload one of them ?

  • #34
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    Here you go :
    By the way : the Natmap maps are already in the ECW format and there is no need to convert them - or do you really scan all these maps again instead of buying the dvd version?
    Last edited by Downunder35m; 07-07-09 at 10:27 PM.
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  • #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcr83 View Post

    As you can see, the map is not distorted. It is perfectly rectangular. The datum is GDA94 and the projection is MGA56.

    WGS84/GEODETIC should never be used, except for Google Earth images (or similar).

    You don't need expensive tools to make good maps for ttMaps, free software is OK.
    So I've done some more reading and I can confirm that you can transform a map from any Datum and Projection to another another Datum and Projection.
    You have to do it in the right way of course.
    Otherwise it would not be possible to use tha maps at all.
    The calibration data is included in the map file or within a seperate file like the OZI Explorer format.
    The Datum and Projection is used to interpolate any pixel of the image to the right coordinates based on the calibration.

    By the the WGS84 / Geodetic format is a worldwide used standard , same for the UTM / (Trans)Mercator format.
    I would still like to know which nice freeware software you use to the job...
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  • #36
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    jcr83 should be a welcome addition to this thread

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    Would anyone be interested in the
    If so I would convert them to be used in ttmaps.

    By the way: I checked over 20 points in the Toolangi map using Google Earth and can confirm the map is accurate!
    I will road test it in about 2 weeks after I got my 4WD back from the shop.
    The State maps are not checked ,except for the map of Victoria - I checked it during some trips to the city and it is usable ,but the detail level is not good.
    Soon I will upload a better map for Australia and if I can get my hands on more maps I will do the same.
    If anyone has good detailed 4WD maps (1:25000 or 1:50000) please let me know!
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    Hello,

    The "South Australia" state map is projected in "SA Lambert" :

    I have converted the map into ECW, while keeping the original projection. Here it is :


    Since ttMaps 0.2.4 does not support this projection, you'll have to update the "proj.db" file in the ttMaps/data directory of the TomTom. The new file is in the megaupload zip file.

    Please test it and let me know the results.

  • #39
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    Thanks for that !
    Now I understand what you meant by "distorted" ...
    The problem is if you change the Datum and Projection the shape of the map has to change too in order to the chosen Datum and Projection.
    While the "shape" of the map image might change a bit ,the important part , meaning the coordinates are still exact.
    This "ugly" look however will be less present in a smaller scale.
    If I use the "distorted" map of Victoria for example (because I'm in that State at the moment) I will get accurate Latitude and Longitude coordinates on the moving map for my current position.

    So for the look of the map you are right!
    But the map is still accurate in terms of Latitude and Longitude.
    The for Toolangi was completely done in the same way as the other maps - the original Datum is WGS84 and Projection is UTM.
    But for this map I calibrated all single tiles seperately and it is a map of much smaller size ,therefore no noticable "distortion".
    If you compare my SA map with yours you will notice that on mine the Longitude lines are parallel ,according to the Datum and Projection that is right.
    On your map they are in the original angle what is also right for that Datum and Projection.
    So in the end it is just the look of the image ,but not the accuracy that is affected...
    As we here most likely search for maps to be used while outside the Tomtom map coverage and in areas where you go "bush" maps with a scale between 1:25000 - 1:100.000 are prefered. So I'm not sure if the "distortion problem" would be even noticable in that scale.

    If all that is so important for you why not make a nice tutorial for everyone on how to convert maps with freeware tools and on how to add the necessary Datum and Projection informations to the ttmaps database?
    But keep in mind that there a lot of noobs and newbies who need to understand it too ;-)
    By the way : I'm still waiting to get an answer in regards to the freeware tool that can convert all the nice map formats

    But at least it is nice to finally have someone in here with some knowledge in regards to that stuff - I really felt a bit alone in here

    Correction for the Toolangi map : it is in 1:50000!
    Last edited by Downunder35m; 09-07-09 at 01:50 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Downunder35m
    So for the look of the map you are right!
    But the map is still accurate in terms of Latitude and Longitude.
    I agree ! But the Lambert projection is conformal, and the map is less distorted (read .
    With the "geodetic" projection, also named "Plate carrée", or "Equidistant cylindric", the scales in the NS direction and in the WE direction are not the same. So Australia may look fat !

    Quote Originally Posted by Downunder35m
    If all that is so important for you why not make a nice tutorial for everyone on how to convert maps with freeware tools and on how to add the necessary Datum and Projection informations to the ttmaps database?
    By the way : I'm still waiting to get an answer in regards to the freeware tool that can convert all the nice map formats
    I am not sure you've read my website :
    • Map Conversion How-To :
      (with three tutorial included)
    • Adding new projections and datums :


    I have used GDAL to convert the map of South Australia.

    Now, I would like to add the other Lambert projections used in Australia. Please send me the other state maps in original format, so that I can test the projection parameters.

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