promises promises promises

[Don Benosee]

Yes yes, it's a terrible terrible shock, Rudd should immediately be indicted and Howard re-instated for this horrible travesty. Imagine, instead of the government employing thousands of people to physically PUT a computer on student's desks, they're giving the schools the money and hoping they can install them for the students, perhaps even allowing them to buy computers that will integrate with the school's existing systems and IT policies.

Geez there's some petty money-grubbers and whiners amongst you lot. Stop and think for a minute, it's about kids getting a better education, FFS, not scoring freebies.

[admin]

Surgery is not recommended at this stage though is very likely later in life. Osteoarthritis isnt something you are meant to have at 40 , but because I suffered a bad injury in my early 20's , that area now has osteoarthritis.
My last bad injury to my back was when I was working 2 years ago with a sledge hammer , I split the side out of a disc and the nucleous was pushing out against a spinal nerve. ( Yes , I shouldnt do Laboring jobs but I dont have formal qualifications in anything. Disability Pensions dont pay bills ).


If I take Oxycontin I can function fine , my back hurts but I dont really know that because it is a strong painkiller ( unless I sit or stand for a prolonged period of time ). I live a pretty much normal day to day life , though some of the side effects arent enjoyable. I intend to try and work 3 days a week to avoid getting paid a Centrelink benefit. There are plenty of people out there doing it harder than me with it such as Bulbous who has to try and survive on the pittance DSP pays. A mate of mine is also prescribed Oxycontin. He has been waiting 4 years for an operation to replace a disc in his neck. Unfortunately he is on the public list.

Anyway , enough about me and we are getting way off topic. Someone always uses any information against me in some way or form either abusively which I suspect post 17 is or in other ways. But then I have never hidden behind a computer screen , so I am an easy target.

[Don Benosee]

Krudd did say there wont be any compensation claims from his apology

he did? Can you quote that for me or is that another one of your oh-so-accidental unbiased paraphrases?

[admin]

Yes yes, it's a terrible terrible shock, Rudd should immediately be indicted and Howard re-instated for this horrible travesty. Imagine, instead of the government employing thousands of people to physically PUT a computer on student's desks, they're giving the schools the money and hoping they can install them for the students, perhaps even allowing them to buy computers that will integrate with the school's existing systems and IT policies.

I much preferred what was offered and it would definately have been more suitable to my 15 yo daughters studies.

Giving schools money is a guarantee that it will used where THEY need it most , not where its promised. Which is understandable , but doesnt help.

[Don Benosee]

I much preferred what was offered

Just wondering what you thought Labor was offering? Like free internet for your daughter? Another free take-home computer?

[z80]

aghhh shit....I hate it when we use the kids to argue .

Let's talk about the politicians some more...

(before I disembowel myself with a serrated breadknife))

[roguefan99]

Giving schools money is a guarantee that it will used where THEY need it most , not where its promised. Which is understandable , but doesnt help.

In an ideal world this is the case Sanity, but I have seen schools piss away money on the latest fad (primary schools implementing school wide internet and not locking it down) when they have been allocated money. It was so badly done in SA, that they stopped schools deciding where it would be spent.

The problem is that usually the parents have a huge sway in the decision (especially if they are good at lobbying) so they do what is best for their kid, and usually by the time they are in this position of power their kids are about the leave the schools so long term decisions are rarely made.

Its not always the case, but unfortanetly its commonly the case. I didn't really agree with the laptop thing, I think there are probably better was of spending money in schools. Personally I'd like kids to be taught how to write and do maths (I see Uni grad go for a caculator when I ask them what 0.8% of 100 is), but then again I find those skills far more useful than my computer skills (at least in my job).

[Don Benosee]

I didn't really agree with the laptop thing,.

That's my question. Was there ever a "laptop thing" promised or did everyone just assume thats what they'd get?

[viper5150]

he did? Can you quote that for me or is that another one of your oh-so-accidental unbiased paraphrases?

Not a quote for you, but his story is that because it was lawful at the time to remove kids from families, then he was advised that there would be no basis for compo claims. And as we are about to find out, someone will challange this thinking and win, and then they will all come flooding in.

About the computers, whats wrong with a pen and paper? Even with computers taking such a large amount of our society why does every child in school have to have one? If anyone can tell me why then i would like to know.

Now what happened to cutting spending? I heard that he wanted to spend $30 million on trying to get a soccer world cup?

As far a Rudd and his election promises, this will be the first of many broken ones and all i can say is that i hope everyone that voted for him is happy with what we now have because it is a sign of things to come. At the time of the election all he did was change the wording on Howard's policies and say they would cost less. Even after the election, Labour still doesnt have any of their own.

[Don Benosee]

Not a quote for you, but.....

Well thanks but I wanted a quote from him saying, as claimed above, that Rudd said " there wont be any compensation claims from his apology"

As far a Rudd and his election promises, this will be the first of many broken ones

I'm still looking for a source for the original promise that everyone is so slavishly dedicated to claiming has been broken.

[admin]

That's my question. Was there ever a "laptop thing" promised or did everyone just assume thats what they'd get?

I never mentioned laptop computers , z80 did in post 2. What was promised was desktop computers as far as I know , not something to take home.

What that has to do with getting a laptop and certificate 2 under a seperate government scheme I do not know. At least I will have one recognisable qualification out of it.

In an ideal world this is the case Sanity, but I have seen schools piss away money on the latest fad (primary schools implementing school wide internet and not locking it down) when they have been allocated money. It was so badly done in SA, that they stopped schools deciding where it would be spent.

Thats what I am saying , the money will end up anywhere but in to computers.

[admin]

Just wondering what you thought Labor was offering?

An election pledge to provide every upper secondary school student with their own computer.

Like free internet for your daughter?

Schools provide Internt services to students Don , time to get with the times.

Another free take-home computer?

A desktop computer for each student is what was promised. Some funding to spend wherever the school wants was given. In other words , most schools will put the money in to maintenence and other essesntial neglected areas.

I am not sure what that has to do with your quote , a big zero by the look of it.

[z80]

I never mentioned laptop computers , z80 did in post 2. What was promised was desktop computers as far as I know , not something to take home.

Reason I said laptops is that it was muted as a possible option in the link presented in post #1 :-

"A 15-page policy document labelled A Digital Education Revolution said: "A Rudd Labor Government will revolutionise classroom education by putting a computer on the desk of every upper secondary student.

It said: "Students will have their own computer and access to the school's extranet and classroom content – both from their desktop and remotely. Schools will be able to apply for grants of up to $1 million . . . this could include personal laptops."


Just commenting on what was posted as a quote from the opposition

Of course the students could carry the desktop home to use remotely......

[Don Benosee]

An election pledge to provide every upper secondary school student with their own computer.

My recollection of it - which seems supported even in the courier mail article originally quoted - was that they actually promised "access to to a computer" or a "computer one every desk" not a freebie to take home.

So now instead they're giving the money to the schools to buy those computers - not to "spend wherever the school wants". Most gumbiment funding isn't just a blank cheque these days, you know - nearly all of it comes with conditions, checks and balances. Hardly a broken promise, more like not giving away freebies.

Schools provide Internt services to students Don , time to get with the times.

Nice try, but I've got three kids at high school too. I was asking whether you thought your daughter should be provided free internet access at home.

[admin]

My recollection of it - which seems supported even in the courier mail article originally quoted - was that they actually promised "access to to a computer" or a "computer one every desk" not a freebie to take home.

You are arguing with yourself Don for some reason or not reading what I am saying. I have no idea where you keep getting this " freebie to take home ". I have never suggested it nor have I ever considered it part of their election promise , which was a " one on one " computer instead of student to computer ratios , which vary at each school. " Access to a computer " was not what was promised at all , this is something that is already available to all secondary school students.

So now instead they're giving the money to the schools to buy those computers - not to "spend wherever the school wants". Most gumbiment funding isn't just a blank cheque these days, you know - nearly all of it comes with conditions, checks and balances. Hardly a broken promise, more like not giving away freebies.

I would suggest you read a couple of quotations in regards to what was promised and what is being received. Firstly , what was originally promised was : " A Rudd Labor Government will revolutionise classroom education by putting a computer on the desk of every upper secondary student. ". This is from a 15-page policy document labelled A Digital Education Revolution released during the election race by the Labor party.

We then have Ms Gillard stating that they will fund it , but

" conceded it could not force schools to provide individual computers to each student."

This doesnt appear to back up your claim of " conditions , checks and balances ". If it did , we wouldnt have the quoted admittance by Ms Gillard that they cant force the schools to provide individual computers.

A further comment , again from Gillard states

"We are leaving it to the school how they do it , we are not mandating that every desk have a computer on it "

A further promise from the 15 page policy document also states

"Students will have their own computer and access to the school's extranet and classroom content – both from their desktop and remotely."

Nice try, but I've got three kids at high school too. I was asking whether you thought your daughter should be provided free internet access at home.

I have got no idea where you are getting some of this.....whether you are jumping to conclusions or simply not reading what I posted.

Why would I expect that my daughter get free internet at home when we already have it ? I did expect that my daughter could remotely connect to her school PC from home which was part of Rudd's Digital Education Revolution policy , which now has been seemingly thrown in the bin because they are now elected.

It would seem that because Kev is a popular bloke and Labor Prime Minister it is ok for him to promise something , then change it to some half arsed offer which for some reason he doesnt want to follow up.

I can see a lot of schools spending money on much needed maintenence work like asphalt car parks etc and a small amount on upgrades or extensions to their existing computer network.

Lets face it , there is a BIG difference between EVERY child having their own school computer and current shared systems that are in place. Its simply a Labor lie , but because its a Labor lie and not a Liberal lie its seemingly ok to have. It seems every anti Liberal crusader supports Rudd breaking promises because its somehow different when Rudd breaks an election promise compared to if Howard broke an election promise.

Broken promises are broken promises by politicians regardless of what party they are with. I dont support broken election promises because the PM is a likeable bloke.

[Don Benosee]

You are arguing with yourself Don

Actually I'm arguing with you and your continual misquoting. You said that Rudd promised each child would get THEIR OWN COMPUTER. He didn't. Full stop.

for some reason or not reading what I am saying. I have no idea where you keep getting this " freebie to take home ".

I didn't "'get it" from anywhere, I was simply asking if that's what you expected. Simple question, which you answered below.

I have never suggested it nor have I ever considered it part of their election promise , which was a " one on one " computer instead of student to computer ratios , which vary at each school. " Access to a computer " was not what was promised at all , this is something that is already available to all secondary school students.

So you want the gumbiment to buy all the computers and physically gives them to the schools, is that right? And now that they've said no, we'll FUND these computers, you're saying they've broken that promise?

I would suggest you read a couple of quotations in regards to what was promised and what is being received.

I have, and I STILL don't see much difference between the governement physically putting the computers on the desks and paying the schools to do so. I also don't see a single shred of evidence to supoort your claim that the money will be given to the schools to do with as they please.

This doesnt appear to back up your claim of " conditions , checks and balances ".

I's not a 'claim', it's a fact. If you have any personal experience with large-scale government funding schemes for institutions like schools you'll know that they never just hand overl the cash and say "spend it on whatever you feel like". I've been through quite a few of these hoops and jumps with funding for a small school where I look after their computer network, and I can tell you it's not as simple as you seem to think, not by a long shot. Mountains of paperwork , KPIs, verification, the list goes on.

I have got no idea where you are getting some of this.....whether you are jumping to conclusions or simply not reading what I posted.

See above. They were questions.

I did expect that my daughter could remotely connect to her school PC from home which was part of Rudd's Digital Education Revolution policy , which now has been seemingly thrown in the bin because they are now elected.

"seemingly" is a good word here. You don't know that won't happen, do you? Did Gillard say it wouldn't? So how has this been "thrown in the bin", pray tell?

It would seem that because Kev is a popular bloke and Labor Prime Minister it is ok for him to promise something , then change it to some half arsed offer which for some reason he doesnt want to follow up.

Nope, he should be as accountable as Howard should have been.

I can see a lot of schools spending money on much needed maintenence work like asphalt car parks etc and a small amount on upgrades or extensions to their existing computer network.

I don't have your clairvoyant capabilities, only a few year's experience to work with. But I think it's a little silly to start crying foul when you have no idea of the details of whats being planned.

Lets face it , there is a BIG difference between EVERY child having their own school computer and current shared systems that are in place.
Its simply a Labor lie , but because its a Labor lie and not a Liberal lie its seemingly ok to have.

You still haven't got over lil Johnny Rotten's arse-kicking, have you?

It seems every anti Liberal crusader supports Rudd breaking promises because its somehow different when Rudd breaks an election promise compared to if Howard broke an election promise.

Interesting juxtaposition of the words "when" and "if" there. I guess you meant "when" Howard did it, right?

Broken promises are broken promises by politicians regardless of what party they are with. I dont support broken election promises because the PM is a likeable bloke.

Ditto. But this particular promise hasn't been broken yet, has it? Have the details of the funding been announced?

[z80]

.... I think there are probably better was of spending money in schools. Personally I'd like kids to be taught how to write and do maths .....

I agree with you 100 percent on this.

I have a son who slipped through the cracks of the primary state school system and is unable to write correctly....was never taught handwriting!

This is because of the halfwit teachers, who have never left school, being in charge of the how the schools's money is spent.

They chose computers for 6-10 year olds....and lots of them.

What a waste of money computers are for primary kids education....

(but good for the teachers, cause they didn't have to exert themselves teaching.)

The public system is a mess, just like the public health system.

And now Rudd wants to flood it with computers?

Fvck that...it needs more teachers, smaller class sizes, better curriculum.

Not more imported chinese electronic crap.

[Farmsky]

Guys,

Get hold of the labor policy and then have an informed debate.



Read the full policy (pdf)

In a nutshell.

Federal Labor's Education Revolution - A School Computer For Every Student In Years 9-12

The misquoted Courier Mail 'noise' was from a Senate estimates committee. Ho Hum. No wonder it hasn't shaken all those lefty journos out of the trees ..... where they obviously belong. Wonder where the the right wing journos are ....... still sulking?

And if anyone had other conceptions of the Labor promise .... well then that's greed, bias and a whole lot of other personal baggage kicking in.

PS I wonder why my avatar was any more titallating than z80's

[z80]

PS I wonder why my avatar was any more titallating than z80's

Mine is an actual photo of my wife, hence in good taste.

[admin]

Actually I'm arguing with you and your continual misquoting. You said that Rudd promised each child would get THEIR OWN COMPUTER. He didn't. Full stop.

Your still arguing with yourself mate. Dont wear yourself out

I didn't "'get it" from anywhere, I was simply asking if that's what you expected. Simple question, which you answered below.

I could ask you if you expect a lot of things too , but I would consider it pointless to randomly pull something out of the air that doesnt have anything to do with the topic. Do you like like fishfingers ? There is my question to you of the same relevance to the topic.

So you want the gumbiment to buy all the computers and physically gives them to the schools, is that right? And now that they've said no, we'll FUND these computers, you're saying they've broken that promise?

Definately.

Saying you are going to actually DO something and then saying " I cant be ****ed " here have some money instead are entirely 2 different things.

I have, and I STILL don't see much difference between the governement physically putting the computers on the desks and paying the schools to do so.

Obviously. Now pretend its the Liberal party doing it and see what you think.

I also don't see a single shred of evidence to supoort your claim that the money will be given to the schools to do with as they please.

A quote from Julia Gillard - " We are leaving it to the school how they do it ".
Where's your shred of evidence that they will be held to account that the specific money is used for its intended purpose ?

I's not a 'claim', it's a fact. If you have any personal experience with large-scale government funding schemes for institutions like schools you'll know that they never just hand overl the cash and say "spend it on whatever you feel like". I've been through quite a few of these hoops and jumps with funding for a small school where I look after their computer network, and I can tell you it's not as simple as you seem to think, not by a long shot. Mountains of paperwork , KPIs, verification, the list goes on.

.

See above. I dont see any evidence of accountability.

See above. They were questions.

More irrelevant " guesses " at getting a bite perhaps. No , I dont need multiple connections of the Internet in my house.

"seemingly" is a good word here. You don't know that won't happen, do you? Did Gillard say it wouldn't? So how has this been "thrown in the bin", pray tell?

Ms Gillard has conceeded she " cant force schools to provide individual computers to each student ". She also states , " "We are leaving it to the school how they do it ".

This being the admitted case by the government , I dont think it is unreasonable to have doubts that remote desktop fascilities wont happen.

They cant force schools to provide individual computers - Julia Gillard
We are leaving it the school as to how they do it - Julia Gillard

Why would I expect that they would manage to follow through with anything they have stated in a 15 page document that was produced purely to get elected ?

Nope, he should be as accountable as Howard should have been.

Well thats what I think Don. Yet you seem to think its ok because although they have abandoned all responsability for the project and cant actually force schools to do it , its ok because they will just give the schools some money and tell them to do it themselves.

I don't have your clairvoyant capabilities, only a few year's experience to work with. But I think it's a little silly to start crying foul when you have no idea of the details of whats being planned.

I have as much idea of the details being planned as what you do. So it looks like you do have the same clairvoyant capabilities. Unless you want to claim that Julia Gillard phones you with policy and states to you that her statements in press releases are all lies.

You still haven't got over lil Johnny Rotten's arse-kicking, have you?

Personally I liked John Howard about as much as you do. However turning the country from a Labor mess in to a country in good economic shape is of far more importance to me than personalities.

I cant stand Costello. Never have been able to , his smirk drives me insane. However I would consider him to be one of the best Treasurers this country has had in a very very long time.

But thats something people will realise in time...probably very shortly by the way every financial institution in this country walks all over Wayne Swan at the expense of those silly enough to vote for him.

Interesting juxtaposition of the words "when" and "if" there. I guess you meant "when" Howard did it, right?

Whenever , whatever. They all do it , its just some people dont want to see it because kev's a good bloke thats here to help which somehow , allows him to break election promises with the support of his voters.

Ditto. But this particular promise hasn't been broken yet, has it? Have the details of the funding been announced?

It has been broken. You just can seem to see it , blinded by the ever powerfull labor light

The Election Promise : A Rudd Labor Government will revolutionise classroom education by putting a computer on the desk of every upper secondary student.

The Result : Julia Gillard conceded it could not force schools to provide individual computers to each student.



One last note , its from the estimates hearing.

In estimates hearings yesterday, Opposition senators demanded to know how the $1 billion National Secondary Schools Computer Fund would be rolled out but received scant detail in reply. That prompted a flurry of thunderous press releases from the Government's inquisitors about how the policy was underfunded and insubstantial. This issue may be but an irritant to a Government still on a high following the ringing endorsement it received from the electorate last year. But the Opposition's efforts in estimates hearings yesterday did succeed in highlighting how little of this digital education revolution is understood by those most affected by it – schools, students and parents.