Reply With QuoteintelliGEORGE (20-07-09)
On the subject of smart crooks...
Some years ago I was servicing a major logistics company as a subby for another security company.
The logistics company had an overflow warehouse in a quiet section of an industrial area. Decent alarm system...Challenger with D/Ts throughout interior, RSCs, PE beams around the perimeter of the grounds, Securitel.
On a Sunday night the control room received an activation from one of the perimeter beams. Security patrol attended (10min) and checked the perimeter of the site..all clear, no apparent cause, docket left in door.
About 20 mins later the same beam activated again. Guard reattended, checked perimeter again, all clear again.
The third time it went off, the guard just checked the front door and the fourth time no-one attended as it had been logged as a faulty zone.
On Tuesday morning (Monday being a public holiday) staff arrived at work to find a 3m hole had been jack hammerred out of the side of the concrete slab wall at the rear of the warehouse and several pallet loads of consumer electronics were no longer in their inventory.
ooohhhh.............sidetrack.......just watched the ref in the broncos/rabbitohs match get knocked out cold with an accidental knee to the head......ouch!!!!
Anyway..the security company got the flick from the site (probably a bit harsh but I guess someone had to take the fall), logistics company had new (not by me unfortunately) CCTV system installed and 4hrly nightly patrols initiated (although I'm not sure this would've helped anyway)
Sorry for hijacking the thread but it just goes to show the very best alarm system is only as good as it's weakest link and in many cases it's the response service!!
intelliGEORGE (20-07-09)
not necessarily keystone, i know plenty of people whos piezos are at the other end of the house. the keypad piezo (only if it was on the panel) may give it away tho, but who would hear the softish sound of those piezos over a satellite siren and screamer???
@ SCT: good match aye... /sidetrack
Too right!! my fav 2 teams...Tigers and any team that beats the Broncos!!Originally Posted by minitechie_94
Just found your problem on the forum I know its years old , but with the Runner panel tamper ( no siren problem ) all you had to do was P35E 7E to fix the problem .
Australian standards suggest that keypads should not be installed in an entry path. That tell me that a keypad should not be installed on the panel. It may have been done that way years ago but since the seperating of the panel and the keypad which was done years ago, the reason was so that the panel could be locked away out of site and protected by an instant zone. I also think that all tampers should be 24 hour audible. I've been to so many jobs where they were once monitored and now are local but the installer has not remembered to make the tamper audible again. A silent zone on a local system, mmm, now that makes sense. It seems that techs dont want to be inconvenienced by having to bypass a tamper before going into the panel. 24 hour audiable all the way for me. I would like to know if someone is tampering with one of our alarm systems and im sure the client would too. considering it takes between 20 and 30 seconds for a dialler system to dial it's message to the control room receiver, any silent panel tamper could be over come by quickly opening the panel and disconnecting the dialler lead.
Why would they even need to open the panel? My understanding of the wiring rules is that the dialler-to-phone line connection (ie Mode 3 socket) needs to be accessible to a telco technician for fault-finding, without them needing to open the alarm panel. In other words, this connection must be outside the panel. So the intruder only needs to pull the dialler plug out of the socket
Think the rules are bit vague and suggest that access must be available at all times. Putting the socket inside the panel and giving the customer the key satisfies that one. I would never put a socket outside the panel.Why would they even need to open the panel? My understanding of the wiring rules is that the dialler-to-phone line connection (ie Mode 3 socket) needs to be accessible to a telco technician for fault-finding, without them needing to open the alarm panel. In other words, this connection must be outside the panel. So the intruder only needs to pull the dialler plug out of the socket
The governing body for the relevant wiring requirement, ACMA (Australian Communications and Media Authority) clearly states that the Mode 3 socket must be adjacent to the panel, not inside it: From memory, when I did the wiring course, there is a maximum potential fine of $13200 for placing the Mode 3 connection inside an alarm panel. I'm not interested in being fined - I've always placed the socket outside the panel, and always will. In fact, I've also moved countless sockets (wired by other installers inside the panel) to outside the panel for this very reason.
Yes, but the idea back then was that the panel was still hidden away and there was a keyswitch in the accessible area (or outside, a lost art).Anyways, Codepads on a lid really isnt that big a deal, many panels for many years were operated from the main panel.
MCM Logic's, Ness 5000, older ness panels (5+ e.t.c)
They are all in tough enclosures, and if your that worried, the client should not be on dialer
You will also remember the number of dodgey installations of Ness 5000s right inside the shop door, because the owner was too miserable to spring for a keyswitch (or a remote keypad) or the installer was too incompetent to suggest it. And back then, what possible option was there except diallers? Securitel was out of the question for most. No. It was dodgey then and it's dodgey now. Even if there is something better than dialler (Emizon, MultipathIP, Telstra Secure etc.) installed but it's housed in the same box, it's still game over unless they have a super-high poll rate AND action all poll fails as critical. The panel should be securely located and/or hidden and the Bad Man should have to trip at least one instant zone to get to it. If it's a really small premises e.g. a shop and there aren't many places to store the panel, you can buy yourself enough time for a panel to squeeze out a signal by separating the panel from the communicator, as long as the communicator monitors the connection between itself and the panel (and has its own redundant power). That way, if the panel gets destroyed, the central will still receive a signal.
Apropos fun with Ness, you've reminded me of .
Last edited by downunderdan; 11-09-11 at 08:24 PM.
x that by how many instals you did that year or years....... what a joke.
The example you've shown is just that. It gives an example of where you can install the socket. There is not a ruling of where the socket should be. I've just contacted the ACMA and asked the question
part of my question
"All I want to know is, is there a ruling that says it has to go outside. We all will have different view on where it should go but if there is a risk of a fine for doing it wrong then I would like to know."
The Answer from the ACMA
"There is no ruling."
The telco would like us to put the socket outside to make their job easier. There is no fine for putting it inside and I don't know why you would move a socket that was inside the panel to outside anyway. Even if it was incorrect, the job would have been done by others and so wouldnt affect your license as long as you state on the necessary paperwork exactly what work you have done.
I'm sure if you spoke to 3 other people at the ACMA, you would get 3 different answers. To me, something in print always over-rules a verbal response.
Just yesterday, I had someone call me who has started having problems with their internet access (slow speed, dropouts, can't access email etc). It had been working fine for years, then suddenly started playing up. No-one had been out to do any work on the line. As I knew I had placed the Mode 3 socket OUTSIDE the alarm panel, I asked them to unplug the dialler to see if the problems went away. Sure enough, the problems disappeared (don't ask me why this started happening all of a sudden). I've arranged to go out and install a central filter soon. Having the socket outside the panel allowed us to quickly find the problem over the phone, and save the customer the cost of an extra site visit.
Drift (20-09-11)
Our job isnt to make it easier for the client to diagnose problems. Why not leave the panel open so they can see easily if a fuse has blown. The fact that the client was able to unplug the socket that easily is a worry. If the socket is outside, which I dont recomend, then at least it should be installed insuch a way that the client cant easily unplug it.
I've had many such phone calls regarding alarm panels interferening with the phones and never had an issue whereby the socket is inside the panel. Theres always a way around it. Give the client a key and mark on your docket that they have a key. If they lose it then its a chargable service call. Its not rocket science.
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