Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: 380 vrx lpg + piggy back ecu

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Age
    47
    Posts
    7
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    10

    Default 380 vrx lpg + piggy back ecu

    I was considering putting my VRX on lpg. My limited research prior to buying the vehicle was that this would be no problem as there were numerous 380's running around with LPG strapped on. Logic dictated that they would all have the same motor as there was no go quick version (worse luck!). Unfortunately Mitsy Australia in their finite wisdom have 2 different heads listed on 380's. One is compatible with LPG and the other (oh yes, you guessed it, mine) is not. They werent bristling with info about why but I am assuming it is all down to the valves and the seats as LPG tends to be harder on them. I was advised that I would void warranty if I fitted LPG. Seems a bit ludicrous. Has anyone else experienced this? Anyone on LPG ? and has anyone fitted an after market piggy back ECU and if so what results have you had? Sorry about the thesis!



Look Here ->
  • #2
    Senior Member
    Godzilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    59
    Posts
    12,740
    Thanks
    16,580
    Thanked 7,201 Times in 3,648 Posts
    Rep Power
    2198
    Reputation
    79113

    Default

    Go to an independent LPG installer or 2 and get their opinion.

    Worst case scenario is after 200,000 Km running on gas you may need your heads rebuilt.

    At that time you could do the upgrade....if you still plan on holding on to it of course.

    Vapour injection is the factory method.






    Edit, i believe Z80 mentioned it was an Impco system from the Mitsu factory. Its a common system that most installers use here, just ask around.
    Last edited by Godzilla; 16-07-09 at 01:59 PM.

  • #3
    Senior Member mickc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    newcastle
    Posts
    1,473
    Thanks
    160
    Thanked 201 Times in 139 Posts
    Rep Power
    270
    Reputation
    1154

    Default

    a flash lube may help

  • #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Cranebrook, NSW
    Posts
    143
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
    Rep Power
    204
    Reputation
    130

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mickc View Post
    a flash lube may help
    Like the one in your avatar???

  • #5
    Senior Member
    Godzilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    59
    Posts
    12,740
    Thanks
    16,580
    Thanked 7,201 Times in 3,648 Posts
    Rep Power
    2198
    Reputation
    79113

    Default



    Apparently the piggy back system used is pretty advanced compared to typical LPG systems, they use a gas solinoid/actuator for each cylinder with a port for each drilled and tapped into the intake manifold.

    Very good milage and power compared to a normal gas system and factory extras such as traction control still work with it.

    As a comparison the egas falcons still used the old fashion gas ring system and their traction control system didnt work and had poor mileage to the tank. Last i heard Ford was considering adopting this system, Holden are all ready using it also.

  • #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Age
    47
    Posts
    7
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    10

    Default

    Thanks for the replies. I have heard that the new lpg system where they put injectors straight into the manifold is way more efficient, develops more power than petrol. I take it that this is what everyone is referring to? Is anyone running LPG on a VRX? and has anyone else heard about the differing heads in the 380's?
    Spoke to the boys at TMR the other day who said they had tinkered with a piggy back ecu but said that it could severly stuff up the original package as it would reset and become next to useless=buy a new one. Not really after that much grief. Am going to increase air flow with a bigger snorkel and 3" pipe into the original air box. I guess there would be those out there that have done that. Anyone noted improvements there?
    Just got onto Impco and they confirm that there are 2 different heads on the 380. Bugger!
    Last edited by 380matey; 20-07-09 at 04:52 PM.

  • #7
    Senior Member tagg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    In a Tin Can
    Posts
    2,203
    Thanks
    872
    Thanked 378 Times in 221 Posts
    Rep Power
    308
    Reputation
    1897

    Default

    Check this mod out for about a half an hours work it can give you up 15 to 20 % increase in horsepower, we did this on my mates VRX and pissed off the factory snorkle and put a decent one on and big gains all round.



    Tagg

  • #8
    Senior Member
    Godzilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    59
    Posts
    12,740
    Thanks
    16,580
    Thanked 7,201 Times in 3,648 Posts
    Rep Power
    2198
    Reputation
    79113

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 380matey View Post
    Thanks for the replies. I have heard that the new lpg system where they put injectors straight into the manifold is way more efficient, develops more power than petrol. I take it that this is what everyone is referring to? Is anyone running LPG on a VRX? and has anyone else heard about the differing heads in the 380's?
    Spoke to the boys at TMR the other day who said they had tinkered with a piggy back ecu but said that it could severly stuff up the original package as it would reset and become next to useless=buy a new one. Not really after that much grief. Am going to increase air flow with a bigger snorkel and 3" pipe into the original air box. I guess there would be those out there that have done that. Anyone noted improvements there?
    Just got onto Impco and they confirm that there are 2 different heads on the 380. Bugger!
    Yes the injectors go straight into the manifold..sort of.

    What they do is take off your intake manifold and drill and tap a thread into all 6 ports.

    The nozzles are screwed in with a little thread lock and tubes are run back to a assembly with all 6 injector solenoids.

    They are connected to the gas converter for fuel delivery and wired into a new wiring harness that runs to a separate control module (think gas ecu).

    This module is wired into various points (piggybacked) in the standard factory wiring, such as you oxygen sensors, throttle position switch etc for control readings.

    My understanding is the car starts on petrol (for ease of starting) and automatically switches over to LPG.

    At WOT (wide open throttle) the Mitsu Factory system automatically switches over to petrol seamlessly. The dial changes color notifying you that its changed fuels.

    Use the search button looking for posts on vrx's, mitsubishi 380, and the user name z80, he has a few of them and discusses how great the factory LPG system is.

    He even had TMR supercharge one of his 380's running on LPG.

  • #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Age
    47
    Posts
    7
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    10

    Default

    Sounds good Tagg. Have looked at the RPW site and they have some cheap and good ideas. I have drilled 5 x 1" holes in the air resevoir located in the inner guard between the wheel arch and front of car. Instantly dropped 1l/100km!!! now running 9l/100km.How much did the thermoblock cost? Any gains in economy too? Like to have more power on tap but want it efficiently.

  • #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Age
    47
    Posts
    7
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    10

    Default

    Hey Godzilla it sound like Z80's 380 is the one that the TMR boys were wincing about. They said they wouldn't touch another LPG supercharged vehicle. May have to chat Z80 about it. Thanks again for the post.

  • #11
    Senior Member tagg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    In a Tin Can
    Posts
    2,203
    Thanks
    872
    Thanked 378 Times in 221 Posts
    Rep Power
    308
    Reputation
    1897

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 380matey View Post
    Sounds good Tagg. Have looked at the RPW site and they have some cheap and good ideas. I have drilled 5 x 1" holes in the air resevoir located in the inner guard between the wheel arch and front of car. Instantly dropped 1l/100km!!! now running 9l/100km.How much did the thermoblock cost? Any gains in economy too? Like to have more power on tap but want it efficiently.


    Mate the thermoblock was about $80.00, as i said before we removed the factory snorkle and fitted the one that they use in the states it bigger they put a smaller one on here so they can pass the rda, we also cut the bottom of the air resevoir off and fitted a after market filter on ($100) heaps better throtle responce now with the mods, as economy yes big improvements will not know how much for sure till we put some miles on. All up the mods were well worth it.

    Tagg

  • #12
    Senior Member
    Godzilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    59
    Posts
    12,740
    Thanks
    16,580
    Thanked 7,201 Times in 3,648 Posts
    Rep Power
    2198
    Reputation
    79113

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 380matey View Post
    Hey Godzilla it sound like Z80's 380 is the one that the TMR boys were wincing about. They said they wouldn't touch another LPG supercharged vehicle. May have to chat Z80 about it. Thanks again for the post.
    Some tips z80 gave me about the car.


    Zeds problems were a KN filter, out of box, emitting oil over the MAP sensors, a waxy substance that got into the MAP sensors and caused check lights.

    Solution is to not use KN filters.

    According to TMR they are non performing.

    The race EVO's prepped by TMR all use the stock paper filters.

    According to Peter West from TMR, KN filters produce erratic lap times.

    Specifically...the guys dont qualify...fine after a few laps, but the filter needs to bed down in its oil emissions.

    The vacuum lines for the MAP sensors need in line filters to prevent oil contamination.

    TMR are a professional business, they know their thing and build some of the best Mitsubishi race cars.

    The performance mods you are playing with have been proven to do virtually nothing by pro's.

    Here is a clip of z80's car in action, note the green/red lights, green is LPG, red is petrol, listen to the blower whine.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kfIDFFCvVA]YouTube - Mitsubishi 380GT supercharged LPG[/ame]

  • #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Age
    47
    Posts
    7
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    10

    Default

    Zeds car looked like it was doing about 0-100 in around 6-7 secs. Not too bad. I am chasing efficiency which usually comes with added kw as well. K and N filters are a bit suss when it comes to good filtration and reliable airflow, hence I would stick to the paper one too. The larger snorkel as fitted to the US galants should make a notable difference in airflow, stepping up to 3" piping with a larger intake nozzle. As to the thermoblock, well the jury is still out on that, but we know that heat is our enemy and we are all seeking cool air intakes soooooo it does stand to reason that if we have a cool intake and the air arrives cooler then it stands to reason (theoretically) that the o2 density would be greater = better burn = more power. I guess that is the theory. Am yet to see empirical evidence to back it up, but it is early days in my research. I would be interested in Tagg's or anyone else before and after data.

  • #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Age
    47
    Posts
    7
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla View Post
    Some tips z80 gave me about the car.


    Zeds problems were a KN filter, out of box, emitting oil over the MAP sensors, a waxy substance that got into the MAP sensors and caused check lights.

    Solution is to not use KN filters.

    According to TMR they are non performing.

    The race EVO's prepped by TMR all use the stock paper filters.

    According to Peter West from TMR, KN filters produce erratic lap times.

    Specifically...the guys dont qualify...fine after a few laps, but the filter needs to bed down in its oil emissions.

    The vacuum lines for the MAP sensors need in line filters to prevent oil contamination.

    TMR are a professional business, they know their thing and build some of the best Mitsubishi race cars.

    The performance mods you are playing with have been proven to do virtually nothing by pro's.

    Here is a clip of z80's car in action, note the green/red lights, green is LPG, red is petrol, listen to the blower whine.

    I havent done the K and N filter but have recently put on the 3" snorkel and previously opened up the resonance chamber in the inner guard. This has improved fuel efficiency and throttle response by a marked margin. As to the Thermobloc, well that seems a little more up and down in the consesus. You will find that TMR upgrade their snorkels to 3". When you say they have been proven to do virtually nothing by pro's, which pro's and what were the results. I can back up my improved economy with figures over a period of time. I would be interested to see the pro's figures.

  • #15
    Senior Member
    Godzilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    59
    Posts
    12,740
    Thanks
    16,580
    Thanked 7,201 Times in 3,648 Posts
    Rep Power
    2198
    Reputation
    79113

    Default

    My post was based on information given to me from Zed based on TMR's findings.

    They are based on thermoblock and K&N filters, not a CAI/snorkle.

    Zed mentioned that TMR run stock air boxes with paper filters when i enquired with him.

  • #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Age
    47
    Posts
    7
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla View Post
    My post was based on information given to me from Zed based on TMR's findings.

    They are based on thermoblock and K&N filters, not a CAI/snorkle.

    Zed mentioned that TMR run stock air boxes with paper filters when i enquired with him.
    I got the same answer from TMR on the K and N. I have seen some dyno figures on the Outlaw engineering site (US based) but would like to see independent results on more cars with these fitted, eg before and afters. Not that anyone tends to fudge the truth when they peddle their own stuff. RPW rip off their site too with the diagrams.

  • #17
    Senior Member
    Godzilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    59
    Posts
    12,740
    Thanks
    16,580
    Thanked 7,201 Times in 3,648 Posts
    Rep Power
    2198
    Reputation
    79113

    Default

    I personally wouldn't question TMR's findings, the amount of RD and testing they perform in real time race conditions is first class.

    Thats street and race conditions, i should add...the know their Mitsus, no doubt with many race wins and factory backing on some aftermarket mods.

    Many privateers also send their cars over for specialty work...not just factory based teams.

  • Similar Threads

    1. i am back
      By oldboy in forum Introduce Yourself
      Replies: 2
      Last Post: 30-04-08, 06:46 PM
    2. back again...
      By slickric in forum Introduce Yourself
      Replies: 3
      Last Post: 22-02-08, 05:23 PM
    3. Piggy Backing Multiswitch
      By urban_s0ulja in forum Satellite TV General
      Replies: 6
      Last Post: 13-02-08, 04:54 PM
    4. Welcome Back!!
      By PunX0r in forum General Chat
      Replies: 66
      Last Post: 06-01-08, 11:51 PM

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •