Reply With QuoteTo keep costs down, how about a Hydrogen Peroxide/Kerosine engine?
Good specific impulse rate and easy to source.
Potassium Nitrate is not the best oxidiser. Ammonium Nitrate is much better.
While you only get 1 nitrogen and 3 oxygen atoms for Potassium nitrate,
you get 2 nitrogen, 4 hydrogen and 3 oxygen atoms for Ammonium Nitrate.
or two water molecules plus an oxygen. You can see a much larger production of gas.
I guess the other way to consider it is from a minimalistic and conventional rocket and then build it bigger to compensate as you go.
example. If the 20g projectile needs to be traveling 8000ms^-1 then a rocket providing 10ms^-2 thrust will take 800 seconds to reach that speed.
13 minutes continuous burn.
If we suggest a class D burns at 1cms^-1 then the rocket needs to be ~8 metres long.
note, we're not even considering moving the mass of the fuel into orbit. just the payload.
We could speed it up and say our little rocket has a thrust of 100ms^-2.
Pulling 11g which isn't anything our payload couldn't handle.
Crunch the numbers again...
8000ms^1 / 100ms^-2 = 80 seconds. That's a hell quick ride into orbit !
Not that it means anything, but we'll re-arrange the D engines into a cluster of 10, but now it's less than a metre long.
Of course it still doesn't consider lifting the weight of all this fuel off the ground along the way. But it give us a sneak peak of how much is/isn't required.
Hybrid Nitrous oxide solid fuel rockets offer the cheapest solution with a reasonable amount of thrust.
Stacking clusters of them, first stage 4 engines, second stage a single engine and the third stage a single engine.
So working on this combination, How big is big enough and can the engines lift the assembly ?
To keep costs down, how about a Hydrogen Peroxide/Kerosine engine?
Good specific impulse rate and easy to source.
and very hard to pump.
Why's that?
Because you have to pump LOTS of kero and Peroxide is corrosive.
It's not 2% peroxide, it's 100%.
Big pump, more weight, more fuel required.
OK, sounds fair enough.
Tried getting the wife's silver necklace to froth up in 6% H2O2 and nothing happened. Wish I could source it a bit stronger.
Could you use a pre-pressurised cell in the rocket to 'pump' the two fuels?
I would like to purchase some "Hybrid Nitrous oxide solid fuel"?
onefella: H2O2 can be sourced from store bought crap at 3% all you need is a good glass distilation set up and collect everything above 140c as H2O2 boils at 150.3c your result would be 80% H2O2+
and to pump H2O2 it would be done under pressure via a nitrogen resivour ,
mechanical pumping would be a waste of time.
trash: D motors? im not one to crunch numbers hence why i was pokeing your brain power but i was thinking along the lines of. 69kg of sugar, 128kg of potasium nitrate and 4kg of binder (special recipe binder). I know this is big but doable and very cheap!!!
when i ran a simulation of 75kg of this sugar propelant at 100,000 feet ie rockoon. i got an altitude of 680km!!!
so without the big idea of burning a 190kg candel it is doable on a 80kg of rocket straped to 85kg of lifting baloon. all of this can be made for under 4k which is in spec, the real problem i had other than the tracking of said satellite or getting a few hundred liters of H2. was inserting said satellite once at altitude into orbit???
but even the 190kg of sugar made it into space so insering is the next thoreticle problem ??
nj
sounds like you want some H2O2 for other purposes other than rocketry??? and solid N2O you must be tripin cause it would be at -90c to be a solid.!!! lolOriginally Posted by Onefella
I would like to purchase some "Hybrid Nitrous oxide solid fuel"?
and H2O2 can be used as a rocket fuel at anything above 60%
No, the H2O2 would only be used for rocket experimentation.
I happen to have a still. But isn't it a bit dangerous getting Hydrogen Peroxide hot/concentrated/gaseous?
Nitrous oxide / solid ... means the fuel is a solid, the oxidiser is the the N2O.
They're common rockets. Richard Branson's Space ship one/two uses them.
You can buy them as hobbiest rockets in the USA.
It might be a little tricky refueling them here in oz, but if you're a member of the local rocketry club, they probably already have an account with BOC/CIG.
no it should be fine, only problem is useing the 3% is the large amount you will need to get an amount of concentrated H2O2.
best way is to buy hair bleeching gel from price line get the 40vol stuff around $8 a Liter, its about 12%. load into your distilation flask using a funell cause the hair bleech is a slow pouring jelly, collect everything and throw away up untill around 110C, keep everything above 110C up to 150C. you should get around 80% H2O2 the other 20% being water that formed an azeotrope (mixing of compounds that form a combination of B.P)with the h2o2 and an alcohole that they put into it.
you should have the gel gunk left in the flask it will be charde its not toxic simply add some metho to disolve and throw away. they add this stuff so it will stay in your hair when you aply it.
80% H2O2 should be good enough to use for rocketry, if you want stronger stuff you are going to need a fraction column to seperate the water and H2O2 more effectively.
New news item from Universe Today.
Seems these college students aren't far off doing it.
about 250,000 feet short of space
They got about 1/3 of the way there.
I will try this one day. Was going to do a non retrievable launch and watch it via 1.2 GHz TV link. Would cost more in fuel to retrieve it than the cost of a camera.
not to mention the extra cost if you want gps location,
what size rocket do you think you would need to reach space if launched at 100,000 feet? lear?
Absolutely no idea Lol. My plans stop at 100,000 feet, about where yours are just starting.
Have been watching a few youtube rocket and balloon launches. It's amazing that even at 100k there's no air for sound to travel. Some of the hi-def video is impressive also.
iv ben running some simms and a J will make 280km height being launched from 100,000feet nice but thats a 70kg balloon!!
amazing what rocks will do beyond the confindeds of air!!!
the prob like i said b4 is braking away from that ballistic trajectory!!!!
any thaughts lear from there???
a l or an m rocket with side ways attitude??? ie u know the one!!!!!!!!!!
lets get launched!!!
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