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Thread: How to launch a 20g payload into orbit for $2000?

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    Junior Member nathj's Avatar
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    Default How to launch a 20g payload into orbit for $2000?




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    well


    it seems the problem is not the launch nor the insertion but the tracking and or the contents of said 20g package??


    any thaoughts

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    Junior Member nathj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nathj View Post
    well


    it seems the problem is not the launch nor the insertion but the tracking and or the contents of said 20g package??


    any thaoughts
    any thaughts lear or trash?????

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    As mentioned in the other thread, the parameters for the prize are rather harsh and restrictive. Considering we are just hobbyists, it would be near impossible to put anything into orbit whatever the method, let alone with those restrictions.

    Maybe something a college or university could work on for a project where they have access to special equipment.

    It's out of my experience. Beyond balloon launches are where I run out of ideas.

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    i wonder if you hit something in orbit with your 100MW railgun.. oh say a multi million dollar satellite, they would track you down? hehe

    i like this statement from that site-

    "Imaginative use of string and chewing gum is encouraged. Entrants are responsible for everything, organisers are responsible for nothing. "

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    Quote Originally Posted by nathj View Post
    well


    it seems the problem is not the launch nor the insertion but the tracking and or the contents of said 20g package??


    any thaoughts
    The first thought that I had when I read the title was the same as yours, how the hell can you prove that something that small has achieved orbit?.

    Maybe an aluminised self inflating balloon that deploys in orbit.

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    i watched a Discovery channel show that show a weather balloon reaching 100000 ft then exploding. Can something orbit the earth below this height? This balloon had a camera on it actually showed the balloon explode when it froze.
    iam a bogan

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    A balloon will continue to rise until it's total mass is equal to the mass of the air it displaces.

    WOW!, 100,000 feet has got to be up near the top edge that any balloon can reach.

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    Junior Member nathj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mate View Post
    i watched a Discovery channel show that show a weather balloon reaching 100000 ft then exploding. Can something orbit the earth below this height? This balloon had a camera on it actually showed the balloon explode when it froze.
    100,000 feet is the highest a balloon will go, about 60km short of space.

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    and about 15000kph short of staying there

    20g tracking. As I mentioned in the other thread, the piece of equipment that can manage this is a laser diode. It should be able to survive some extreme accelleration.
    The satellite is tumbling, so while the beamwidth is narrow, the signal is easy to detect as it flies over. To save the battery and weight the circuitry is minimal. I mentioned 10Fxx series PIC chips with a couple of button batteries and the laser diode fills up the satellite.

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    Those button cells, will they explode at the extreme temperatures of space eg hundreds of degrees + and - ?

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    A Canadian artillery expert named Bull conducted experiments from the late 1960's with finance from the Americans to try to develop a gun capable of putting a payload into orbit, It used 3 16in naval guns coupled end to end, but it was not successful and the Americans lost interest as their rockets were starting to work.

    About mid 1980 Bull contracted with Saddam Hussein to build a gun capable of hitting any part of Israel, The Brits, under pressure from the US state department impounded the manufactured barrel sections before they could be delivered to Iraq for final assembly and testing.

    Bull was assassinated by mossad before he could arrange for the barrel sections to be made in one of the Eastern bloc countries.

    It was claimed that this gun, called "The Babylon gun" would have been capable of putting a small payload into Earth orbit.

    Into space maybe, into Earth orbit doubtful.
    Last edited by BlackDuck; 22-08-09 at 11:49 PM. Reason: korektd spelign

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    Quote Originally Posted by Learjet View Post
    Those button cells, will they explode at the extreme temperatures of space eg hundreds of degrees + and - ?
    yeah it seems like an almost imposible task, because you should always have some type of sheilding, and at 20g theres not going to be much sheilding after the electronics etc,

    what about a small laser reflector they used it to detect the distance between earth and the moon, it was placed there with the moon landings and is used to this day. mmmmmmm, might have to do some googleing

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    The reflector can be made small.

    I'm not so fussed about the temperature extremes. The first hamsat was basically wrapped in aluminium foil to stabilise the internal temperatures.
    I was going to say make the chasis out of silver and polish it. But there is no reason why it could not be micro beveled to make it highly reflective like a cat's eye reflector.
    Tracking it with a laser is much trickier. The target is tiny and the ground based laser would need to be suitably high power. The ground base receiver is much the same. Quite a simple device.

    On top of that insulating the batteries with something like aerogel would be feasible. It's the ability of the insulation to survive extreme accelleration that I'd consider to a bit of a challenge.
    The other choice of insulation I'd consider would be something like salt.

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    geeze i cant belive i didnt think of aerogel, iv even played around with it back at uni, that could be faesible its light (very light) strong and a really good insulator.

    i recall that the first australian ameture sat had a steel ruler as an anttena!



    what would be the minimum signal strength being transmitted at around 210km that ametures could receive

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    laser reflector satellite

    a bit heavy but a smaller lighter one could be possible,



    edit/ found the perfect 20g sat
    Last edited by nathj; 23-08-09 at 11:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nathj View Post
    geeze i cant belive i didnt think of aerogel,
    You can make aerogel, it's not that hard to make. Obviously your first attempts are going to be a little crude, but with practise you can make some very good stuff. I've not tried it myself, so I'm speaking second hand. But there are plenty of examples of how to do it on youtube and the in-ta-net.

    what would be the minimum signal strength being transmitted at around 210km that ametures could receive
    I'd work on a 300km distance. And it's how long is a piece of string.
    As an example, a 10GHz, 10mW signal is quite capable of covering this distance carrying a TV signal ! A narrowband signal can get away with a LOT less.
    I can remember the first demonstrations of 10GHz SSB back in the late 80's, they were using 10uW and covering distances of 100km.

    The problem with high frequency narrowband is the complexity of the circuit.

    Laser reflectors ..... get a bicycle reflector and a 5mW red keychain laser.
    Put the reflector on a hill and nail it to a tree with a good view... then with a telescope, attempt to get the target in view. On another tripod, mount the laser or have somebody shine the laser on it and see if it flashes.

    Move further and further away.

    highly reflective surfaces are very easy to make. Take a sheet of aluminium from the hobby shop and polish it with toothpaste or sodium bicarbonate .... keep polishing, it's not shiney enough yet !

    You can also knerl it... it takes some skill and precission. The concept is to cut corner patterns into the reflecting surface.

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    Tell me if I have researched this correctly. At this time, no amateur has ever launched a payload into orbit. Amateur meaning people that don't get paid to do it, but just do it as a hobby.

    The first amateur group to launch a rocket into space (not orbit) at 116 km was the CSXT team in 2004. Their rocket reached Mack 5 with a rocket motor that cost $20,000! In order to reach orbit they reckon you need mack 25.

    It all seems a lot harder now.

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    Junior Member nathj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learjet View Post
    Tell me if I have researched this correctly. At this time, no amateur has ever launched a payload into orbit. Amateur meaning people that don't get paid to do it, but just do it as a hobby.

    The first amateur group to launch a rocket into space (not orbit) at 116 km was the CSXT team in 2004. Their rocket reached Mack 5 with a rocket motor that cost $20,000! In order to reach orbit they reckon you need mack 25.

    It all seems a lot harder now.

    sounds about right, very hard!!!

    but if you can get solid propelant for next to nothing it is possible,

    potasium nitrate and sugar is one way check out this site

    but you need to go large, very large

    and when you think that sugar cost about 50cents per kilogram ther is the fuel taken care of. not sure of bulk oxidizer prices tho (potasium nitrate)

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    The problem with this for me, is that I would eat the rocket!

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