Two providers with same PID ! which separator ?

[itscanon]

Hi

When there are two providers using the same PID and same CAID, let's say 0500 .. do they both use the same separator ?!!

like so:

CAID 0604 , PID = 0500 , Prov00
CAID 0604 , PID = 0500 , Prov10

One of them just recently switched their Ird cards to ver 5.4 , 5.7 i beleive .. means they must have switched separator or just the whole procedure we have been using does not apply anymore ?


Any ideas ?

Also i have a valid Ird card ver 5.3 .. I get two PIDs for the channel, on two differenet CHIDs though .. which to log ?

dvbsnoop 1 -n 1 :

MPEG-DescriptorTag: 9 (0x09) [= CA_descriptor]
descriptor_length: 4 (0x04)
CA_system_ID: 1539 (0x0603) [= Irdeto]
reserved: 7 (0x07)
CA_PID: 3586 (0x0e01) <---

MPEG-DescriptorTag: 9 (0x09) [= CA_descriptor]
descriptor_length: 4 (0x04)
CA_system_ID: 1540 (0x0604) [= Irdeto]
reserved: 7 (0x07)
CA_PID: 3586 (0x0e02) <---

[crypto7]

Its been a while, so I may not have this 100%

In short, the seperator that everyone talks about is not intended to be a seperator, simply a "start of packet" marker.

When logging from a dream (or the like), the stb has removed part of the DVB header, thus making it a little hard for the loggers.
In the missing header for each DVB Packet (not the emm packet), there is a flag that tells the stb if the next bit of data is start of packet, or a continuation of a previous packet. If it is a NEW packet, then the first byte (from the dream) is actual data, else the first byte will be the offset to the start of the first packet.

Now, to make it a little harder, some streams NEVER allow an overflow of a packet, thus the first byte from the dream is ALWAYS data.

Once your logging software has worked out the above, you can then have a look at, what I call the raw "dvb" packets from the dream. If you dump them to a text file and have a look, you will start to see alot of packets start with the same 2 bytes 8240 for example. NOTE, the real header is 824x where the x does not have to be 0, but may be in the stream you are looking at.

Now that we understand that the SEPERATOR is not a seperator, but a start of a CA packet, it can be different for different PIDs.

The best way to find the seperator is to look at the DVB Packets where you have 1 packet per line (187bytes from memory).

As to which one to log, it may be either. You may find that one CAID is for V1 cards and the other CAID is for V2 cards (eg: Irdeto 1 and Irdeto 2).
Once you work out the "seperator" and have your logger working, log both streams for a while and see where your card details show up.

[itscanon]

Thanks a lot for the extremely useful reply crypto7 I could not find the "thanks button" like weirdo did

Now, to make it a little harder, some streams NEVER allow an overflow of a packet, thus the first byte from the dream is ALWAYS data.

In such case it would be impossible to log any Emm or HSN ?! or there is a way around

I did follow you advice and had a look at RAW data, the 8240 was obvious .. but i could not notice any other although i tried hard , was like swimming in the code with no direction .

Maybe it can be worked backwards, let's say - in the case of this post ( One PID, 2 Prov - Prov00 & Prov10 ) - I got an HSN logged using the 8240 separator , is there a way to tell if data belongs to Prov00 OR Prov10 ?!! & whether it is a C3 or CB could give a clue to which provider it might belong to ?

In the case of C3 i was able to tell because once transmitted to the card, you get the EMM successful msg in EMK 3.5 , so it shows which provider got changed .. but in the Case of CB , EMK always says Unsuccessful ( I read in many posts that inspite of the unsuccessful msg, data would've been sent anyways - True ?? ) so I can't tell which provider 00 or 10 got the update . Unless CB should be sent differently than C3 to the card with EMK, maybe there is another way to send CB updates other than EMK ? !

[crypto7]

All packets can be logged you just need to write/use the right software.

If you dump about 15-20 of the RAW data packets, I will convert to its CA packets so you can compare.

[davo]

C3 & CB updates are Both (EMK) HSN addressed Updates.

From memory...
They are addressed to the HSN. (Unique Address)
Not a Provider group. (Global Address)

Some of our HSNs used to be addressed/Updated by a CB EMK, now the same HSN is being addressed/Updated by a C3 EMK. and Vice Versa.

You wouldn't be getting both CB & C3 for the same HSN of the same length.
EMK Updates are normally 38 length eg 824038CB or 824038C3. If you do the latest one being sent is the Valid one. They did for a time alternate some of ours way back when. one was a CB then the next change was a C3 etc BUT not now, if its a CB then they all are etc.

Dual providers on the card would have seperate provider group addressed updates,

An EMK Update is HSN/CARD related.

There possibly are many other CB/C3 of different lengths however to the best of my knowing they would not have anything to do with an EMK update.

Davo

Edit...

Some of them could be fake ones.

Most people that are getting EMK Unsucessfull with 3.5+ if they close the proggy and re-open it normally this fixes it. Sometimes it leave the port open so sometimes a reset of PC will fix it too. the proggy is great but sometimes works different for different people. I never in the past had EMK Unsucessful with a pheonix @6mhz from version prior to 3.5 and up to the latest version when I used to play with it.

[itscanon]

Very informative post davo thanks a million ( i still cant find the thanks button )

@ crypto .. i will try to send a raw log today , very kind of you .. thanks

[weirdo]

Very informative post davo thanks a million ( i still cant find the thanks button )

@ crypto .. i will try to send a raw log today , very kind of you .. thanks

I think you need a minimum of 10 posts to see the 'Thanks' button

[itscanon]

thanks for the tip weirdo :>

OK .. I finally got the CB line go through to the card which changed Prov00 and HSN intact , all good so far BUT I can't get a pic ! .. threw the card on my strong, waited for a couple of hours & nothing .. made sure card was in the strongie when the CB came into the stream again and also nada .

Also tried with an emulator , card in phoenix connected to a linux box as server, and a client with AU on the dreambox and nothing too

Unlike with a C3 line, pic would be on within 20 secs

any ideas ?

[best4less]

As Davo was saying about the program called " Gama Card 3.5 " even when the program was giving you the error " EMK Unsuccessful " in truth it actually does still work just ignore that error

[itscanon]

As Davo was saying about the program called " Gama Card 3.5 " even when the program was giving you the error " EMK Unsuccessful " in truth it actually does still work just ignore that error

Yeah, i even found a way around so it does not give that error .. but it is not the problem anymore . Problem is CB sent to card , Emm Successful ... but no pic :<

[davo]

As Davo was saying about the program called " Gama Card 3.5 " even when the program was giving you the error " EMK Unsuccessful " in truth it actually does still work just ignore that error

'EMM Unsuccessful' LOL not EMK hehe

move along nothing to see here HEHE