Reply With Quoteloanrangiel (13-02-10)
Gods right...we had insulation, but not all, and the old was thinning.It did comply to be added or replaced.
The job was professionally quoted ( Mitre 10) and no money changed hands.
Still can't vouch for the training of the workers though.
Lastly, I don't think Govt.should be the culprits for the unfortunate deaths that have occured, as they did introduce laws and safe asa standards for installers. I agree that the installation boom gave little thought to sites being checked for compliance, and that is a worry, however, as an example, if you have electrical work done, who ever checks that work for compliance? I had never heard of foil placed over roof bearers before all this....I would never ever consider that in a place I own, to me it makes me think of electrified fences.
loanrangiel (13-02-10)
Yep there must be a 40mm distance around any downlight , as i have all downlights in my place you look in there and its like swiss cheese.Originally Posted by Sanity
As for who is at fault well the only person at fault is the one who hired the installers and sent them out to do the work .
As an employer i am responsible for all work carried out by my employees and to make sure they abide by any rules and regulations and safety measures required.
Just because the government made the funds available does not mean they are responsible for the deaths , the person responsible is the one who actually carried out the work and his employer and they are the ones who should and will be fined by work cover and the insurance companies.
I am not a labour supporter or liberal supporter they are both the same to me A BUNCH OF LYING WANKERS.
dont say linux if i wanted it id install it
marty 17 (13-02-10)
if that was the case the office for minister of main roads would be fitted with a revolving door! LOL
When I explained to the guy what avatar I wanted, that wasn't what I meant!
this is getting beyond a joke now...
an elderly family member (whom suffers from early Alzheimer's) has just been visited @ 8:30pm on a friday night and signed up.... not sure what the "deal" is... whether is free or money down...(they) were keen to do it tomorrow (sat). so have to go over tomorrow and make sure, its all ridgy didge... its BS
bit of a worry to me (and my family)
edit: unit is less than 10 yrs old!
Last edited by z1gg33; 12-02-10 at 09:25 PM.
If you feed ducks at a pond, chances are your bound to feed a goose or two without even knowing it.
Hmmm.by this reasoning, no minister can be held responsible for anything.
This program was rushed in to fulfill an agenda that is politically based. It was done with out adequate research and without adequate (ANY maybe!) regard to safety and training. Its just another cash cow to the opportunistic.
Like the schools development fund or whatever it was called. Except in this case, people are dead. The contractors responsible should be charged, and the minister responsible should have the decency to resign, or should be dismissed by the prime minister.
But he won't resign....the parliamentary pension he sold out for can't be big enough yet. "How can he sleep when his bed is burning?"
Cheers
enf
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
Having it done this week. $700 materials, $500 labour, no money changing hands.
Have to get two quotes in case you are audited, and they can install if there is less than 50% coverage of existing insul or more than 50% of existing insul is damaged/degraded.
Check the batts...
Cheers
enf
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
Godzilla (13-02-10)
There is no way i'm letting any shonky f#$ckers up into my roof space to lay batts hap hazard , i'd rather they give me the batts and i'll do it myself.
enf (13-02-10)
Obviously a few people around here haven't employed people and dont know the obligations they must under take to ensure the safety to their employees client and public under existing state and federal law in their industries .
Wake up the government is not your baby sitter in this matter .
The house holder is the one engaging the installer they have a choice so choose a reputable brand ring the batt manufacturer supplier and ask for their recommend installers its not rocket science .Even bunnings are in to it
Next time I get worked over buy a trades person I will blame the government shall I.
Now if that tradesmen or their employer is negligent in any way then the government can intervene with a big stick .
The cowboys are in all industries you have just have to read this forum .
Cheers
If its a scheme where the government is paying the tradesman , yes.
The government is the employer. They are the ones paying these dills. You dont pay these clowns any money yourself , they install it for nothing because the government is paying them for each property they insulate.Now if that tradesmen or their employer is negligent in any way then the government can intervene with a big stick .
The ones that arent working cash are working sub contract. They are not employees , they are all their own employers.
I work do for company's that are payed by the government . Im 4th in the chain .
How is the government responsible for what I do on site ????
The responsibilities are with me the person that subbed to me and the site company . We have to do a hazard assessment before stating work .
By the way house holders are also responsible for the safety the contractor trades person on site or any one for that matter .
See any strata site they mostly have tradesmen insurance even for the lawn mower man .
PS The house owner is the employer they choose the contractor .
Last edited by pieces; 13-02-10 at 11:58 AM.
It makes no difference here there or why who pays for the work to be carried out
The responsibility lies upon the company and its workers or subcontractor or sole trader for the work to be carried out to the correct rules and regulations simple as that .
I buy a brand new spec home built by avjennings a yr later i start to sand a wall and touch a screw and get a zap because some fool screwed it into the electrical lead.
i take action against jennings but guess who is actually responsible "the person who installed the gyprock " because they did not take care when installing it and they did not look to see what was there etc.
So just because jennings built it does not mean they are liable the actual sub contractor is and is the same as the case from the start of this thread
dont say linux if i wanted it id install it
More than likely they arent. They dont pay you.
Just as you ( or anyone else ) should. Including a government that is financing a scheme of this type. They either forgot ( unlikely ) or just thought that they should be able to get away with it. After all , its only insulation...what could possibly go wrong ?The responsibilities are with me the person that subbed to me and the site company . We have to do a hazard assessment before stating work .
Yes , thats why ( most ) home owners have insurance.By the way house holders are also responsible for the safety the contractor trades person on site or any one for that matter .
See any strata site they mostly have tradesmen insurance even for the lawn mower man .
The government is the employer they pay the contractor.PS The house owner is the employer they choose the contractor .
We could argue this all day but ultimately we all know that the government will be held accountable for it. Employer/employee laws dont come in to it , governments have a responsability to the people who elect them and Peter Garrett has even come out and admitted that he has known about all these problems and done nothing.
Big difference......the government doesnt figure anywhere in it and you are actually paying someone for the service. But see the last paragraph of my previous reply.
Just having a read of the government website.....individual installers who work sub contract dont have to be individually registered as government approved installers.
Only one single person has to register , all you need is an ABN and insurance , you dont even need a business name as you can just register one individual with an ABN and everyone else can sub contract under him.
It says you have to do at least 1 days training to be an installer but you dont have to provide proof to them apart from the one original applicant.
Thats all thats required , instant business - just add waterYou can now use anyone you like to install installion - disabled , grandparents , illegal imigrants - the sky is the limit.
Its not hard to see how this mess has eventuated and why 4 people are dead.
There are many what I call professions where non registered people carry out work under the guidance of a trained and/or registered professional. I used to be an electrical TA in a previous role. When installing telecommunications cabling it used to be that you could have non registered/licenced people doing all the work as long as the registered installer was on site. The registered installer was responsible for signing the certificate of compliance. There are usually standards and codes of practice to be adhered to and it is the tradesmans responsibility to sign off. Although no money is payed/changing hands by the owner I would assume that the property owner has to sign a consent/acceptance form as well as the supervising registered professional.
Instead of focusing on the government the media should embark on a name and shame for the dodgy dropkicks trying to rip the mostly needy recipients of this grant and the government. These operators should be labelled UnAustralian and have the book thrown at them.
xnavyman (14-02-10)
No...I disagree. Wanting the media to practice vigilante justice is stupid.
The instigator of this scheme without sufficient or any oversight is the government. The media should pressure THEM to find the guilty, and the minister responsible for rushing this politically motivated fatal shambles (and that is what it is) into operation should be out of a job
Cheers
enf
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
I wonder how many here were baying for Downers axing when this was going on...
I barely remember it...didn't we lose the site since then?
Cheers
enf
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
Does anyone know the date this offer ends?
This outcome might be interesting...
Seems like the suing has begun..
If you feed ducks at a pond, chances are your bound to feed a goose or two without even knowing it.
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