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Thread: LED downlights

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    Premium Member bazzy's Avatar
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    Default LED downlights

    Has anyone had any experiance with LED downlights?

    Guys at bunnings said they where extreemly inadiquet for general lighting in the house. I have Installed them in my hallway and bedroom using two different types of LED (one lot CREE and the other a generic brand from Ebay) and the lighting in the hall seems good and the master bedroom is very well lit. I only used 4 down lights in each room.

    My only concern is that today i had them on and the just shut off, using a Beal Prithett Transformer with 4x4 watt Downlights attached (16W) and the min wattage is 10W on the transformer and max is 60W. The Lights flickered a bit and then i turned them off. now they work again, i am thinking i may have a Rat in the celing as i heard the wiring i installed move last night and saw some chewing marks on existing cabeling.

    I have 4 Downlights connected to the one transformer (Leds only take 4W so i have to run no less than 3 from one transformer) and i am worried the transformer is faulty.

    Annoying tho this happens after installation as i have had them set up in the room for Days running testing them to make sure they work without failure.

    What are your thoughts

    Regards



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    If there's evidence of rats chewing cables, that's what I would be dealing with as a matter of urgency because they can cause house fires from chewing mains cables.

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    They'd be quite good for background lighting and the energy saving can't be ignored. The only -ve about them so far is the cost per unit but the lifetime should make up for that and then some. I've considered some but aimed up from the walls to illuminate the ceiling to provide a more even overall lighting rather than the 'spot' effect of small downlights. Mounting a few behind a pelmet is another possibility for a subdued overall lighting result (effectiveness depends on the colour of the wall and ceiling though).

    Your problem could be that the power supply has a borderline minimum load on it preventing stable operation but the possibility of rodents chewing the cables does need to be investigated real fast (possible fire risk)

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    Premium Member bazzy's Avatar
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    I deposited about 4 rat sac pouches in the celing (today) but i am not sure how to tell if the rat has gone to them. would a pest control company be a wise idea? Just the thought of working in the celing with a rat up there creeps me out.

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    If a rat takes the bait and doesn't make it out of the ceiling your nose will let you know about it in a few days (and it's bad). I'd be setting a trap or 2 not far from the manhole so you can retreive it without an extensive search before it gets to that stage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazzy View Post
    I deposited about 4 rat sac pouches in the celing (today) but i am not sure how to tell if the rat has gone to them. would a pest control company be a wise idea? Just the thought of working in the celing with a rat up there creeps me out.
    The bait will be eaten if you have rats.... yes, rats, plural.

    It's unusual to have just one... just what you wanted to hear.

    Soe will go away to die, others decide to stink the house out.

    Pest control companies commonly use a combination of bait/trap.

    The rat goes into a trap to get the bait... the pest controller comes around to check the traps.

    I don't know the cost, but if you don't like the thought of removing the dead rats (and sometimes live ones) it might be worth checking out.

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    If the sachet has gone from where you have placed it or torn open, your in business.
    Most but not all seem to make the rats go for water but the prime ingrediant is Warforan, the same as doctors prescribe for blood thinning so if you see any rat carcasses, try and dispose of immeditately and safely.
    I have had good success with those packets you pop a hole into and put securely somewhere, tied string on some to stop them dragging off the box.
    For a bit of fun I have made up a potion of Plaster of Paris and Icing suger, 2 tablespoons or more of plaster, teaspoon of Icing suger or any suger, cut a hole about 50mm or so at the top end of a plastic soft drink bottle and place where I know mice run.
    Potion at the bottom and after a few days, apart from the urine smell, you will see liddle iddy fooddy marks indicating that have eaten and are now suffering from Terminal Constipation.
    Plaster of Paris when wet, sets..............................
    Give it a week or so and chuck the whole thing in the bin and redo if you like.
    Dont reuse old bottle as it will have moisture in it and the Plaster soaks up water like a sponge.
    I dont care where you live, city, bush or Complex, youse has RATS !!!

    And Rats wont attack unless cornered so always 'announce' your presence first.
    Last edited by gordon_s1942; 15-03-10 at 10:50 AM.

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    Energy efficient yes but not very effective if lighting a room. You will need at least twice as many led's as you have 12v downlights.

    The compact fluro downlights arent much better. They take a very long time to achieve max brightness and you still need twice as many.

    Im in shock that somebody at Bunnings knew what they were talking about.

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    I put them all through my house at my wife's insistence when I built it 9 years ago, and have been regretting it ever since. With 4 of them in the lounge, there's a significant reduction in usable light compared to, say a 100 watt standard globe, and there's no energy saving whatsoever as many people wrongly believe.

    In fact you use over twice as much in the above configuration (4 D/Ls X 50 watts plus the transformers). I want to pull them out and replace them but get GBH of the earhole every time I bring the subject up

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    I'm not sure if rats are the problem...the ones I have in my house (LEDs) don't like the high voltages put out by the Halogen transformers and even though they have internal regulation they overheat, flicker and eventually shut down. You might want to measure the voltage on them and actually see what it is. You might want to try a nice, regulated DC voltage on them and see if they behave themselves then. If they do then you will have to go to a proper power supply designed for LEDs.

    I like most here found the light output disappointing but will try a different brand to see if there are variations. Mine weren't cheap ones though so I'm not holding out for much hope. May need to hang out for a few more years to let the technology mature.
    Last edited by Ramjet; 15-03-10 at 05:54 PM.

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    AFAIK Most LED down-lights recommend the use of a "Iron-core" transformer, as they are a 'tradional' transformer with no minimum current draw to work correctly.
    Electronic transformers (which is what you have) have issues with low current globes. They have a minimum current draw before they 'turn on' properly, otherwise they wont work properly.

    Bad point with Iron core trannies is they waste power (IIRC it was about 6-9watts, in heat generation).
    Bad quality ones have melted or caught fire (same goes for electronic too though).
    Last edited by Pred8r; 15-03-10 at 08:45 PM.

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    I have found that they are simply not bright enough to take the place of other lighting sources and they have the sightest hint of blue, ie, not brilliant white like most want.

    But power consumption wise, fantastic!!!!!

    I do have a "fluro" down light, about 18W I think, it isnt too bad, takes a while to brighten up though.

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    Premium Member bazzy's Avatar
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    I dont feel he is correct as i only have 4 in the bed room and it seems more than enough.

    The room has more light than when i had a 100W bulb and it is a resonable sized beedroom too. This picture is of the Light output. i am verry happy with them and think he was compleatly wrong with what he said.

    I asked him if LED lighting is a good lighting sollution and he said " it is terrable" I am glad i did not listen as i would have put 6 or even 8 in and that would have been over the top.

    I have 80Led 4W bulbs

    Sorry for the picture quality as it is taken on my video camera because i cant find the cord for my digital camera.

    Regards





    Quote Originally Posted by viper5150 View Post
    Energy efficient yes but not very effective if lighting a room. You will need at least twice as many led's as you have 12v downlights.

    The compact fluro downlights arent much better. They take a very long time to achieve max brightness and you still need twice as many.

    Im in shock that somebody at Bunnings knew what they were talking about.

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    I think the LEDs on the market just a couple of years ago are pissweak compared to ones available today.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rank1 View Post
    I think the LEDs on the market just a couple of years ago are pissweak compared to ones available today.
    what type are you buying now? can you provide any pictures or links as to where to get them?

    Cheers

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    I have a few. I use the 240v ones so I don't have any problems with transformers. I have found them to be good but they are some what directional rather than flood. The ones with three leds rather than one seem better but there are many different led lights available.

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    I just bought a couple of LED downlights to compare them to my halogens. I am very impressed with the light, I actually prefer it. The guy at the LED store said these were 48w as compared to my 50w halogens, so the drop in brightness is minimal. It is a much whiter/cooler light than my halogens so it actually appears to be brighter.
    Each unit only has 3 chips/diodes, which makes me wonder how one packed with diodes would go, I've seen units with 12 diodes in them before, but I guess that was a few years ago.

    These units just plugged straight into my old Halogen mounts, did not have to remove the transformers or anything.

    Images Below:





    LEDs at the back, Halogens at the front




    The Unit




    Installed




    If anyone is interested I can post the details of where I got them from.
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    rank there is some issue with the links. Can you reupload them via the imageshack uploader in quick reply and post them as thumbnails ( see )

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    Quote Originally Posted by rank1 View Post
    48w as compared to my 50w halogens,
    48 WATTS why bother! isn't the idea to save power???????
    When I explained to the guy what avatar I wanted, that wasn't what I meant!

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    Quote Originally Posted by iwacelect View Post
    48 WATTS why bother! isn't the idea to save power???????
    Well obviously a 48W LED putting out the same light as a 50W halogen will not consume 48W.

    Or put it another way. An LED consuming 48W will put out a helluva lot more light than a 50W halogen.

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