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Thread: instant hot water heaters

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    Senior Member ozchips's Avatar
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    Default instant hot water heaters

    I have been looking at getting solar or heat pump , but then someone suggested these things and reckon they are the ducks nuts . I reckon a 21l/min one is ample . how efficient are these things ? there are no rebates as far as i know , but I can get one fully plumbed for approx $1200



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    Have a look here Ozchips. Many reviews on almost all hot water units.

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    Senior Member Moof's Avatar
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    I personaly don't like instant hot water systems.
    The main problem is that you need to waste too much water before it gets hot and there is a minimum flow required for them to work.
    You cannot just have the hot tap trickling as you get no hot water.
    They are always complaining about water restrictions but these things waste too much water.
    I recently looked at getting one but my water saving shower head that I use didnt have enough flow for the heater to operate. Where is the sense in that?
    I am only on rain water tanks and cant afford to waste water so I got a storage unit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moof View Post
    I personaly don't like instant hot water systems.
    The main problem is that you need to waste too much water before it gets hot and there is a minimum flow required for them to work.
    You cannot just have the hot tap trickling as you get no hot water.
    They are always complaining about water restrictions but these things waste too much water.
    I recently looked at getting one but my water saving shower head that I use didnt have enough flow for the heater to operate. Where is the sense in that?
    I am only on rain water tanks and cant afford to waste water so I got a storage unit.
    Well there's your problem. Do away with the water saving shower rose and get one that you can actually have a shower with .

    In your case moof, yeah stick with storage.

    Still not convinced that heat pumps are the way to go. There is one supplier here in Newcastle that doesnt sell them anymore due to noise issues. Basically they sound like an aircon when they are running.

    Gas instant water heaters are great. The new ones have no pilot light and really efficient. The water you waste getting to temperature has decreased quite a lot.

    Electric instant heaters, forget about them. They take forever for hot water to start flowing and from experience, the water is not very hot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moof View Post
    I am only on rain water tanks and cant afford to waste water so I got a storage unit.
    If you only have tank water then I assume you don't have natural gas either? The disadvantages are that you probably really need a natural gas connection. You could use bottled gas but would it be worth it? Even with natural gas I think you need a larger (2"?), higher flow gas pipe to them as well. Correct me if I'm wrong here...

    The waste water issue can be solved/reduced in two ways. Have a septic treatment system where the water gets re-used. Or there was a Renew article a while back where you can buy special valves that get fitted just after your hot water tap and it senses the temperature of the water. The water gets diverted to wherever you want (Tank if you have one) until it senses a pre-set temperature and then diverts the water back to your chosen outlet. It adds more expense but you don't waste the water.

    I will see if I can find the article and post some info...

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    Default instant hot water heaters

    Hello ozchips...steer clear of the bosh hydropower, especially if your on tank pressure.
    We have one and its no good.
    I put one put in a house we rent (town supply) and the tennants had problems.
    A friend has one (on town supply) and had problems.

    Without sufficient flow the turbo cuts out and the shower goes cold.

    The last two cases got by after fitting a big bore shower head.

    We have tank plus torium pump and still problems, well the missus uses hotter water than me and most nights its ok for her.

    I think they might work allright in a colder climate but not for me up here in the tropics.

    regards flicker

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moof View Post
    I personaly don't like instant hot water systems.
    The main problem is that you need to waste too much water before it gets hot and there is a minimum flow required for them to work.
    You cannot just have the hot tap trickling as you get no hot water.
    They are always complaining about water restrictions but these things waste too much water.
    I recently looked at getting one but my water saving shower head that I use didnt have enough flow for the heater to operate. Where is the sense in that?
    I am only on rain water tanks and cant afford to waste water so I got a storage unit.
    Hi,I am an electrical contractor,repairing and installing Inst.Hot water systems.
    One does not waste water as it is INSTANT,unless your system is too far away,in that case you waste the same amount of water with your storage tank.
    Elect.(and gas) Inst. HWS have the waterflow already restricted ,so you don't need a water saving showerhead. A pressurepump for your tankwater should be sufficient to switch it on.( I have a Holiday farm with tankwater so I know what I'm talking about).
    Well, too late, you already installed a storagetank.You never mentioned if it's gas or electric.

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    Senior Member Moof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gulliver View Post
    Hi,I am an electrical contractor,repairing and installing Inst.Hot water systems.
    One does not waste water as it is INSTANT,unless your system is too far away,in that case you waste the same amount of water with your storage tank.
    Elect.(and gas) Inst. HWS have the waterflow already restricted ,so you don't need a water saving showerhead. A pressurepump for your tankwater should be sufficient to switch it on.( I have a Holiday farm with tankwater so I know what I'm talking about).
    Well, too late, you already installed a storagetank.You never mentioned if it's gas or electric.
    My water heater is not very far from kitchen or bathroom. I did have a instantanious system but got rid of it. You still needed too much water flow for it to run properly.
    You will always waste more water with an instantanious system as water has to flow before the water begins heats and with a storage system it leaves hot.
    My system is bottled LPG. I know people will have a go at me for this but I do it safely.
    I have 3 LPG bottles one of them runs the stove inside and this is expensive propane. The other two bottles run the outside HWS.
    These two bottles are filled with LPG from the service station.
    It works out alot cheaper. The bottle is filled by weight and all connections have been done properly. Because this has a mix of propane and butane it is not suitable for indoor use because of the fumes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moof View Post
    and with a storage system it leaves hot.
    But doesn't come out the tap hot until all the cold water in the pipe runs through.

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    Senior Member ozchips's Avatar
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    water usage I am not overly concerend about , we have 50000 gallons of tank water , grey water recyclying system , septic and full pressure town water .
    the current electric system is just wasteful , and for the ensuite it can take up to a minute for the cold water to get flushed out and hot water to get there .
    So in my case is the instant gas hot water thingos viable ? or good in my case ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ozchips View Post
    the current electric system is just wasteful , and for the ensuite it can take up to a minute for the cold water to get flushed out and hot water to get there .
    ?
    Do you have one of those stupid things on your hot water that limits the temp ?
    I have one and would have to wait 3 minutes for hot water to come out of most taps.

    Its illegal to remove.

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    I couldn't agree with Moof more strongly. We have had a Rheem 24 installed from new and the pressure issue is a massive pain. At the very least with storage units I can have a low pressure shower as I did in my Mum's place but with these they have to be cranked and to make matters worse if you try and back down on tap to restrict flow the unit cuts out which means you have to wait for it to reset again and you end up losing heaps of water. Can't wait for it to die so I can replace with a storage unit.

    The only real benefit of these units is once they are going you can never run out of hot water unlike a storage unit (just in case you have to bath ten kids or have the local footy team over) . The other benefit is size, because they are compact they can be fitted on an external wall and not occupy as much space as storage units. Our unit has variable temperature control in all the bathrooms but its a bit too sensitive.
    Last edited by myf360f1; 24-03-10 at 01:04 PM. Reason: updated

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    Senior Member ozchips's Avatar
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    ok so instant hot water heaters are cheap and efficient to run if you have decent water pressure ?

    Sanity , not sure ,what do they look like ? i do know that the ensuite shower is an arsehole , you turn on the hot water and cold water and you can never get the right mix , the tiniest turn of either handle will make you freeze and your nuts shriek into hiding into your guts or otherwise melts your skin off

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    Senior Member ozchips's Avatar
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    just checked the old electric system , it is a rheem 101 series , so probably old as the hills and uses a power station just to start up

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    Quote Originally Posted by ozchips View Post
    ok so instant hot water heaters are cheap and efficient to run if you have decent water pressure ?

    Sanity , not sure ,what do they look like ? i do know that the ensuite shower is an arsehole , you turn on the hot water and cold water and you can never get the right mix , the tiniest turn of either handle will make you freeze and your nuts shriek into hiding into your guts or otherwise melts your skin off
    Mine is some sort of valve on the line going in to the hot water service at the unit itself........ but if yours is as old as described its probably not that.

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    Check your shower rose ozchips.

    Sounds to me like there is a flow restricter fitted and the flow rate is too low. Once you restrict a shower past a certain point they are nearly impossible to adjust. 7.5L/m is as low as you should go. I myself would go with 9 or 12L/m, if at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moof View Post
    ~I have 3 LPG bottles one of them runs the stove inside and this is expensive propane. The other two bottles run the outside HWS.
    These two bottles are filled with LPG from the service station.
    I'm in a similar position to you Moof, How do you go about filling bottles with LPG for cars.

    I'd love to go this way for the money savings alone, A 40kg bottle of propane gas here costs $125 plus $25 per year rental per bottle.

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    Talking Big Brother protecting us from ourselves again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanity View Post
    Mine is some sort of valve on the line going in to the hot water service at the unit itself........ but if yours is as old as described its probably not that.
    These are what Sanity is referring to:-


    An overview of the Regulations:-

    An excerpt:-
    AS / NZS 3500.5, 2000: Plumbing and drainage Domestic installations: Clause 3.4.1
    states water minimum storage temperature for heated water is 60C to inhibit Legionella
    bacteria growth. Requirements for delivery temperature (clause 3.4.2) at sanitary fixtures
    include "All new heated water installations shall, at the outlet of all sanitary fixtures, used
    primarily for personal hygiene purposes, deliver heated water not exceeding 50C ".
    Compliance with this clause is not required for kitchen sinks and laundry tubs where the
    preferred delivery temperature is 60C.
    I recently had a 200L storage unit replaced, and without my knowledge, a Tempering valve was installed.
    On checking the specs, I found that the outlet range should have been 30 to 50, but when set to max, was only 40. A replacement unit did reach 45, but to my mind was inadequate. The Plumber would not remove it for fear of losing his licence.
    Since I don't have a licence, it appears that I can do it myself.
    In the past I have always reduced the preset temperature from 85 to 65 as it makes a considerable difference to the power bill and also advisable with young children around.
    It now concerns me that there are now dangers of Legionella Bacteria.
    God helps those that help themselves.


    Kindest Regards, " The Druid ".

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    Just checked my Infinity 20 to see when the rate of flow is too low to heat it was so slow there is no way I would have a shower under that will do a Lt testf you like.
    I am very happy with mine only prob is no power no hot water no gas no hot water

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    Beer4life, this was a problem a family member encounted as the run from the IHW to the ensuite was too far and in the cold climate here, it got cold too quick.
    I understand that after much argueing, the temperature setting was increased to compensate for our area.
    I am not sure where you are but this may be an option for you to have done as I believe these Temperinging settings are all based on Sydney/Melbourne etc.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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