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Thread: Security licence for cameras?

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    Senior Member bss904's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moke007 View Post
    Haha, yes it is all about keeping the standard of work high and keeping the industry honest, nothing to do with raising as much money as the industry will cop :-)
    It has nothing to do with how much the industry will cop. They charge as much as they like with no regard to how it will affect your business, and you then have a choice to pay it or get out. It is a simple as that. The SIR have told me that it is my choice whether to comply or not and if i chose not to, then I should consider changing professions.
    Remember if you have been previously licenced, that they already have your details on hand and if they want to get you, they already have a nice head start in doing so.



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    Quote Originally Posted by moke007 View Post

    I have a funny feeling geting a security license is more about paying a fee to the government rather than ensuring cameras and alarms are installed correctly.... I can legally install a fire detection system in a 10 story building protecting 100's of people, yet not install an alarm system or security camera. There are lots of inconsistanties (spell?) in this world...
    Fire system !=security/cctv system. Security tech's can't go installing dedicated fire systems, so why should fire techs & sparkies be allowed to install security devices sans the appropriate licences?

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    Firstly i would like to say thanks for this series of posts, i was asked the other day about licenses and found nothing, even the training companies who run courses every day were unable to help. It is great to hear everyones opinions and here is mine.

    I would like somebody to post the actual LAW pertaining to WA which restricts a technician from installing Axis/Mobotix POE Cameras in mines in WA (i have posted below what i have found to be the closest). I am a licensed cabler with TITAB and i am a traded Electronic Technician, and i have completed many installs around WA.

    Of all the back and forth i have seen on here, nobody has produced a WA LAW that states you need a security license to sell, install or maintain a system on a customer site for any number of regular reasons. Like Kalboy states, we have installed systems on Rom Pads, Load Outs at Iron Ore sites to ensure trains are full of ore, many sites have systems installed in the pits or in their underground mines.

    The only thing i can find in Australian Standards is that you need to be a licensed cabler. Even a Cert2 in technical security will deliver the following compotency:

    Certification

    On successful completion of this course the student will be awarded a full Certificate II in Technical Security that also includes a Restricted Telecommunications Cabling License.

    In my experience, and i mean no offence to anybody here as i have no idea what you may or may not be qualified to do...but it is not too hard to become a security installer, in fact the Cert2 can be acheived in a couple of weeks. I would assume the security license that is spoken of is mearly a competancy confirmation tied to a Police Clearance so a consumer can ask for your ID and confirm you are not a thug.

    Please correct me if i am wrong, i would really like to know if indeed there is some LAW pertaining to this. I did find the SECURITY AND RELATED ACTIVITIES (CONTROL) ACT 1996 which pertains to WA (from the WA Police Website) and as long as you are not installing "for security purposes" and you are installing with a restricted cablers license for not networked or open cablers for networked then i do not see a problem.

    SECURITY AND RELATED ACTIVITIES (CONTROL) ACT 1996 - SECT 14
    14 . Term used: security installer
    (1) A security installer is a person who for remuneration installs, maintains or repairs all, or any, of the following —


    (a) safes;


    (b) vaults;


    (c) security alarms;


    (d) locks of a prescribed kind;


    (e) security doors of a prescribed kind;


    (f) closed circuit television equipment for security purposes;


    (g) any other prescribed equipment or device.


    (2) The definition in subsection (1) does not include a person who installs, maintains or repairs any equipment or device in a vehicle, vessel, aircraft or other means of conveyance.


    (3) Regulations made for the purpose of subsection (1) may adopt by reference any Australian Standard with or without variations and either as in force at a particular time or as amended from time to time.

    Thanks for reading guys. Feel free to comment, the more we all learn the better!

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    Western Australia

    In Western Australia, a business or individual providing security services must hold the appropriate licence.

    Agent (Business) Licences
    Businesses supplying security products or services must hold the appropriate Agent licence. The following licences are available:
    • Security Agent Licence – authorises the supply of security officers, security consultants or security (equipment) installer’s services.
    • Crowd Control Agent Licence - authorises the supply of crowd control services.
    • Inquiry Agent Licence - authorises the supply of investigation services.

    Non-Agent (Individual) Licences
    Employees who perform security services need to hold the appropriate Non-agent licence. The following licences are available:
    • Security Officer Licence - to watch, guard and protect property.
    • Security Consultant Licence – investigate and advise on matters relating to the watching, guarding and protection of property; includes security service and equipment sales.
    • Security Installer Licence – to install security equipment (does not apply to installers of security equipment in vehicles, vessels or aircraft).
    • Crowd Controller Licence – to monitor or control the behaviour of persons, screen persons for entry or remove people from premises. Required for licensed premises, places of entertainment and public or private events or functions.
    • Investigator Licence – to investigate the conduct of individuals or corporations or the character of individuals, perform surveillance work or investigate missing persons.

    Holders of Agent licences are not permitted to perform the duties of the other (non-agent) licence classes unless they also hold the appropriate non-agent licence. They are only permitted to supply the holders of other licences. A self-employed alarm installer, for example, would need to hold both an Agent and Non-agent licence.

    Regulator:
    Commercial Agents (WA Police)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjbozzy View Post


    (g) any other prescribed equipment or device.
    Seems like it could include anything they like.

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    Thanks George and Watchdog - i think we all conclude that it is very shady. The extract you present George is exactly what i told my excerpt from. And it is very clear that the obligations are required when conducting security work. As you can see i have presented the description of who a security installer is. Putting in network cameras for a mining client to watch rocks get caught in a crusher or ensure a train is fully loaded is NOT security purposes.

    I guess as we all know, it gets foggy when the client can use the camera for any purpose they want once installed however.

    The funny thing is...if you apply this set of components in the "act" to the sale of network cameras - you would fine 80% of resellers, wholesalers etc do not have the license to sell for security reasons but could use a loop hole that they are not for security but for someother purpose.

    Is a householder breaking the law by installing a Swann Security Camera System for home use? Is DSE licensed to sell Swann Security cameras for such purpose? Check out (google or search DSE) for SWANN DVR4-2500 DVR 4 Camera Kit - it actually advertises for business security.

    Hmm makes me wonder...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjbozzy View Post
    Putting in network cameras for a mining client to watch rocks get caught in a crusher or ensure a train is fully loaded is NOT security purposes.
    I agree, the ACT you quoted mentions the installation of CCTV for "Security purposes". The scenario you put forward does not prohibit you from installing network cameras as you are not installing them for security purposes.

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    I believe the qualifier for "Security purposes" was to exclude industrial cameras, as described above, as well as safety cameras such as reversing cameras on vehicles.

    In relation to Dick Smith, Jaycar etc. I understand the NSW Security Industry Registry took the view that if a company only sells gear as a small part of their inventory, it's not considered a security seller. Go figure.

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    Licensing is required in all states of Australia. Technically for those working in more than 1 state, they should obtain a license for each state.


    There are some loop holes in the security license, such as if you work at Dick Smith Electronics and sell cameras, you don't need to be licensed, which is part of the reason there is so much crap being installed.

    Additional to the security license, those involved in the installation of LV cables are required to have a cablers license to install the cabling.
    This does mean you CANNOT legally install the cables to cameras you bought at Dick Smith or else where.
    Tim Norton

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    Quote Originally Posted by CCTVguru View Post
    Licensing is required in all states of Australia. Technically for those working in more than 1 state, they should obtain a license for each state.
    It's fairly easily achieved via Mutual Recognition Act.

    However it's a compelling reason why the security industry should be managed federally, by the Commonwealth Attorney General, rather than state by state. Unfortunately, I don't see the states giving it up easily, as they make so much money out of it by way of fees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by downunderdan View Post
    It's fairly easily achieved via Mutual Recognition Act.

    However it's a compelling reason why the security industry should be managed federally, by the Commonwealth Attorney General, rather than state by state. Unfortunately, I don't see the states giving it up easily, as they make so much money out of it by way of fees.
    It's mony for Jam in SA. They are interested in policing the guards and bouncers but do nothing in electronic security
    Tim Norton

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    DSE, Mitre10 Hervey norman cant be prosecuted and lose their security licenses because they dont have any in the first place.

    Reminds me of an incident 12 months ago, where a security guard failed a drug drug test after being served by commercial agents. He/she failed the test but had the results destroyed because his/her license had expired before the test was done. (subsequently renewed his/her license and lived happily ever after)

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