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Thread: Security licence for cameras?

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    Junior Member moke007's Avatar
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    Default Security licence for cameras?

    Hi Guy's,

    I have a customer that wants us to install a couple of security cameras in his shed and run them back to the house. Am I supposed to have a security licence for this?

    Cheers, Jim.



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    If you're in WA then yes. You require a licence for both the consultation and installation of CCTV systems. The company also requires a security agents licence before they're able to offer such services. Depending on exactly what you're installing, you may also require a communications cabling licence.
    Last edited by Drift; 04-06-10 at 04:41 PM.

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    Junior Member moke007's Avatar
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    Thanks, drift. I am in NSW but I imagine it would be the same.

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    Jim,

    If you have to ask, I'm guessing your a first timer. Can I suggest you go and get a bit of training etc. and deal with licencing at the same time.

    I see so many people simply slap a few cameras on the wall, and invariably they only find out after an incident, that the system is no good.

    I'm not saying it's rocket science, but it's very easy to get things wrong (especially with the prevalence of cheap gear) and you usually find out the hard way...

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    Well said downunder
    Tim Norton

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    Cool

    But I notice that no one is willing to say yes or no

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    Quote Originally Posted by watchdog View Post
    But I notice that no one is willing to say yes or no
    I thought it was clear from my earlier post.

    According to: NSW Security Industry Act 1997

    4 Carrying on a “security activity”

    (1) For the purposes of this Act, a person carries on a security activity if the person carries on any one or more of the following activities in the course of conducting a business or in the course of the person’s employment:

    installing, maintaining, repairing or servicing, by physical or electronic means:

    [heaps of other stuff deleted]

    (i) any security equipment, or

    (ii) any mechanical, electronic, acoustic or other equipment that the person installing, maintaining, repairing or servicing the equipment purports to be equipment that is designed or adapted to provide or enhance security or for the protection or watching of any property,
    The legislation is quite clear about this.

    How they enforce the legislation is a whole different story...

    My earlier advice was in good faith to the benefit of someone trying to do the right thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by downunderdan View Post
    Jim,

    If you have to ask, I'm guessing your a first timer. Can I suggest you go and get a bit of training etc. and deal with licencing at the same time.

    I see so many people simply slap a few cameras on the wall, and invariably they only find out after an incident, that the system is no good.

    I'm not saying it's rocket science, but it's very easy to get things wrong (especially with the prevalence of cheap gear) and you usually find out the hard way...
    ?????? your post doesn't address the licencing issue at all.

    You can quote the Act but I know that you (like myself) aint one of the true believers.
    It's simple , instead of security cameras why not use observation cameras or better still OH&s cameras. The legislation itself isn't worth a pinch of shit but it is the job of the SIR to beat you with a stick until you comply with their wishes

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    Watchdog,

    For the avoidance of any doubt: Yes, the legislation makes it clear that you need to be licenced.

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    The very fact that the subject is continuing indicates that it is not quite clear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by downunderdan View Post
    According to: NSW Security Industry Act 1997

    4 Carrying on a “security activity”

    (1) For the purposes of this Act, a person carries on a security activity if the person carries on any one or more of the following activities in the course of conducting a business or in the course of the person’s employment:

    installing, maintaining, repairing or servicing, by physical or electronic means:

    [heaps of other stuff deleted]

    (i) any security equipment, or

    (ii) any mechanical, electronic, acoustic or other equipment that the person installing, maintaining, repairing or servicing the equipment purports to be equipment that is designed or adapted to provide or enhance security or for the protection or watching of any property,
    The legislation is quite clear about this.
    Purport = profess or claim
    It would seem that it is up to me what is security equipment. The legislation is quite clear about this !

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    I can see where watchdog is coming from.

    Here in the West there quite a lot of cameras being installed purelly for OH&S reasons. IE.. Looking into a hopper so an operator doesnt start the conveyor up and dump ore on the poor soul who is inside the hopper freeing up a rock jam. Your normal Sparky is installing these cameras, why should he require a security licence.. ?

    Also reversing cameras installed on trucks ? These are not done by Security Licenced Installers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kalboy View Post
    I can see where watchdog is coming from.

    Here in the West there quite a lot of cameras being installed purelly for OH&S reasons. IE.. Looking into a hopper so an operator doesnt start the conveyor up and dump ore on the poor soul who is inside the hopper freeing up a rock jam. Your normal Sparky is installing these cameras, why should he require a security licence.. ?
    (ii) any mechanical, electronic, acoustic or other equipment that the person installing, maintaining, repairing or servicing the equipment purports to be equipment that is designed or adapted to provide or enhance security or for the protection or watching of any property,

    Last time I checked watching and looking had the same meaning. It comes down to how well you can translate the ACT.

    Btw security falls under OH&S. e.g A service station attendent wears a duress pendant for OH&S reasons.

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    [QUOTE=intelliGEORGE;305111](ii) any mechanical, electronic, acoustic or other equipment that the person installing, maintaining, repairing or servicing the equipment purports to be equipment that is designed or adapted to provide or enhance security or for the protection or watching of any property,

    George - I've highlighted the important words

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    Quote Originally Posted by watchdog View Post
    The very fact that the subject is continuing indicates that it is not quite clear.
    Sorry. That's absolutely wrong.

    The NSW legislation is very clear.

    Whether people choose to obey it or to perform as outlaws is immaterial.

    The Act also defines inter alia "property". So a reversing camera is outside its scope. As would be a camera watching the inside of a blast furnace or the camera built into an intercom which is not otherwise supervising anything.

    I suggest you have a .

    Calling a camera performing security functions an "OHS camera" won't help any more than calling an unlicences brothel a "Stress Management Facility" would.

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    Quote Originally Posted by downunderdan View Post
    The NSW legislation is very clear.
    Ok dan , a few examples. You tell me what's so clear about this.

    The legislation states that you need a security licence to sell any security equipment (other than basic household or automotive security items at approved classes of retail outlets)
    In reality ALL retail outlets are deemed to be approved types. Basic household security items are defined as items that can the purchaser can install themselves. The fact that you don't provide an installation service is sufficient for the equipment you sell to meet this requirement. So basic household security equipment has absolutly nothing to do with the complexity of the equipment & more to do with the provision of an installation service.
    This is in writing from the Minister of Police (via the SIR)
    This information is made quite clear in the Legislation? Don't think so

    "selling any mechanical,electronic,acoustic or other equipment that the person selling the equipment purports to be equipment that is designed or adapted to provide or enhance security or for the protection or watching of any property"

    This clause caused most people who deal in security doors , screens , fences and gates to comply with all the licencing requirements. If the question was put to the SIR they confirmed the need for the licence. The fact that such equipment was termed "security" by the sellers is why the licence was required. Essentially they had "purported" that the equipment they sold was in fact security equipment. If on the other hand they referred to such equipment as "vandal proof" or "heavy duty" there would be no need for a licence
    This is in writting from the SIR
    This information is made quite clear in the legislation? Don't think so

    ACMA cabling rules originally came about to protect the integrity of the telecommunications network. Fair enough you may say & I'd agree. But they have been expanded to include ALL cabling undertaken in the telecommunications , fire & security industries. It makes no difference if there is not a phone line within 100 miles.

    DON'T tell me the legislation is quite clear. It was never meant to be quite clear. Ambiquity is what keeps the SIR in a job. I'm not telling you anything new when I say that the people charged with administering the legislation , the ones you should be able to rely on for information are the very ones who are most likely to lie to you in an attempt to hold the beaurocratic agenda.
    As the legislation stands it is all about revenue raising & political interference in your livelihood. The only change it has brought to the industry fees /licences of $1000s every year as against $35 /yr I used to pay 12 yrs ago. The standards & quality haven't changed thats for sure, only the number of hoops they make you jump through.

    I need take a deep breath , count to ten & relax.

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    Watchdog, we are getting a bit off topic here.

    I don't disagree that the application of some other legislation is muddled and inconsistent. For example, a number of people acting de-fact as security officers, yet calling themselves 'concierge'. Ditto some of the examples you raise. This is before you add internal confusion at the Security Industry Registry, most of whose staff have never actually operated within the industry and do not understand that which they are supposed to be regulating. Ditto the Firearms Registry, most of whose staff have never looked at a firearm. At least the staff at the RTA know what a car looks like...

    The original post was in relation to the installation of cameras and as far as I am concerned, the legislation and its implementation is quite clear.

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    Hi Guy's, I though I had my answer after the first post little did I know it was so involved that it would continue!!!

    We have worked out that we will contact a local security guy and get him to advise what he wants installed. We will run cables that he specs and he can sell and mount the cameras. The other thing we were thinking was to send the apprentice off to get his security license so we can do these sort of things in the future without all the mucking around.

    I have a funny feeling geting a security license is more about paying a fee to the government rather than ensuring cameras and alarms are installed correctly.... I can legally install a fire detection system in a 10 story building protecting 100's of people, yet not install an alarm system or security camera. There are lots of inconsistanties (spell?) in this world...

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    Quote Originally Posted by moke007 View Post
    The other thing we were thinking was to send the apprentice off to get his security license so we can do these sort of things in the future without all the mucking around.
    Good luck! For the apprentice to be employed by you to carry out such works, the company will require a Master licence. LOL! This is where they really sting you!

    1. You MUST join an association $$$
    2. The cost of the licence will be determined by how many employess the compant has, and annual turnover. $$$

    Did I mention you'll be spending $$$?

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    Quote Originally Posted by intelliGEORGE View Post
    Good luck! For the apprentice to be employed by you to carry out such works, the company will require a Master licence. LOL! This is where they really sting you!

    1. You MUST join an association $$$
    2. The cost of the licence will be determined by how many employess the compant has, and annual turnover. $$$

    Did I mention you'll be spending $$$?

    Haha, yes it is all about keeping the standard of work high and keeping the industry honest, nothing to do with raising as much money as the industry will cop :-)

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