Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23

Thread: Double Glazing

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    673
    Thanks
    61
    Thanked 70 Times in 47 Posts
    Rep Power
    175
    Reputation
    786

    Default Double Glazing

    We are in country Victoria and are looking at replacing windows with double glazed ones.
    The window supplier that did our windows 12 years ago used un primed MDF reveals. These are now cactus from condensation damage.
    We are looking at replacing the affected windows with double glazed windows.
    What are the UPVC frames like. The window companies that we have contacted that don't do UPVC claim that it is crap.
    hmmm who to believe?
    Don't want to end up with more dodgy windows.



Look Here ->
  • #2
    Senior Member
    weirdo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    5,458
    Thanks
    4,638
    Thanked 3,134 Times in 1,632 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    29582

    Default

    I hope you're intending to use double glazing for thermal insulation and not sound insulation. (double glazing has no/minimal effect as sound insulation)
    PVC frames have been used in Europe for quite some time now.
    Alluminium is tried and proven but often doesn't look very good if used in a colonial type house.
    Hardwood frames are good too but obviously require maintenance (painting)
    Maybe ask these window companies that bag UPVC frames why they are no good.

  • #3
    Premium Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Central Tablelands of NSW
    Age
    76
    Posts
    13,824
    Thanks
    1,242
    Thanked 3,803 Times in 2,523 Posts
    Rep Power
    1736
    Reputation
    56926

    Default

    Isnt it odd that both the US and the UK, (watch their Home Reno shows) use Double Glazing and here, nobody is even slightly interested.
    Over there its to keep heat in more importantly than out whereas its the opposite here in most cases but either way is important.
    I wondered about the PVC UV rating as we do have a very high UV Index compared to other countries which would need carefull investigation.
    I agree with weirdo about these companies that 'Bag PVC/Double Glazing', ask them why and also ask is it because you dont do them, not the agent, or havent a clue about them !!!
    In the US they go to a Thermal rating of 35, not 3 or 4 or 5, styrofoam spray insulation etc and what do we do here, absolutely bugger all.
    I see new homes of Brick Veneer going up and and you might as well live in a tent as far as insulation goes.
    Do the Insulation right the first time and save a lifetime of power bills heating and cooling the house.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

  • #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    perth
    Posts
    277
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 29 Times in 20 Posts
    Rep Power
    151
    Reputation
    233

    Default

    If you watch the us/uk reno buiding shows you will here that the council/county/city building codes quote what isulation level/number/factor is to be installed here jacj all

  • #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    154
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 32 Times in 25 Posts
    Rep Power
    122
    Reputation
    152

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dogsbreath View Post
    We are in country Victoria and are looking at replacing windows with double glazed ones.
    The window supplier that did our windows 12 years ago used un primed MDF reveals. These are now cactus from condensation damage.
    We are looking at replacing the affected windows with double glazed windows.
    What are the UPVC frames like. The window companies that we have contacted that don't do UPVC claim that it is crap.
    hmmm who to believe?
    Don't want to end up with more dodgy windows.
    Did a bit of googling on this and here is one article on the pros and cons.

    The best bet would be to ask the companies who supply this product for a list of customers who has had them installed and contact a customer or two for their opinion.
    I'm sure they would not hesitate on this request if they are genuine.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    uPVC or unplasticised Poly Vinyl Chloride is type of plastic containing chlorine. It is called ‘rigid vinyl’. uPVC windows and doors are fitted as standard in many construction projects in the USA and the UK. It is the material of choice because it stands up to bad weather much better than traditional timber frames and it is cheap. This article will look at the pros and cons of installing uPVC windows.

    The Pros

    * uPVC is a lightweight material that is easy to install.
    * uPVC windows don’t swell and crack in wet, hot and dry weather extremes. It is easy to maintain and it is easy to clean.
    * uPVC window frames come in all colors including photo realistic wood finish.
    * uPVC sash, bay and French window styles are all available. Because uPVC frames come in all styles and shades they can be made to fit into any architectural situation so as to blend with the overall look of the building.
    * uPVC doesn’t shrink or swell in extreme weather so is suitable as a window frame material to hold double, triple or insulated glazing. Glazing prevents thermal loss so it helps to reduce your energy bills. In some situations having uPVC double glazing can save you up to 20% on your heating bills.
    * uPVC windows are much harder for burglars to force open. Unlike timber frame windows that are often easy to pry open.
    * uPVC windows can last up to 30 years. Unlike wood frame windows they don’t need repairing and repainting every two years.

    The Cons

    * uPVC windows and doors have been banned from public building constructions in some states in America and in some parts of Europe because in the event of a fire the uPVC gives off highly toxic dioxins when it combusts.
    * Chlorine is a very dangerous chemical to use in commercial manufacturing processes. There have been several cases of health problems associated with people who live near or work in factories making PVC products.
    * uPVC is difficult and expensive to recycle. Much of the disused uPVC in the world goes to landfills where it leeches chlorine and other poisons into the ground. Also landfill fires are common occurrences. If burnt, uPVC produces a thick, noxious, polluting gas.
    * Timber frames although high maintenance can outlast uPVC if they are regularly repaired and repainted.
    * It is very hard to beat the beauty of wood. It just looks and feels right. Wood is timeless in its appeal.



    There you have it... I think some window companies that use traditional wood frames know that they have some real competition
    Comes back to price and personal preferences.
    Last edited by officemanager; 14-06-10 at 10:08 PM.

  • #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    154
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 32 Times in 25 Posts
    Rep Power
    122
    Reputation
    152

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gordon_s1942 View Post
    Isnt it odd that both the US and the UK, (watch their Home Reno shows) use Double Glazing and here, nobody is even slightly interested.
    Over there its to keep heat in more importantly than out whereas its the opposite here in most cases but either way is important.
    I wondered about the PVC UV rating as we do have a very high UV Index compared to other countries which would need carefull investigation.
    I agree with weirdo about these companies that 'Bag PVC/Double Glazing', ask them why and also ask is it because you dont do them, not the agent, or havent a clue about them !!!
    In the US they go to a Thermal rating of 35, not 3 or 4 or 5, styrofoam spray insulation etc and what do we do here, absolutely bugger all.
    I see new homes of Brick Veneer going up and and you might as well live in a tent as far as insulation goes.
    Do the Insulation right the first time and save a lifetime of power bills heating and cooling the house.
    The only reason we probably did not use double glazing would be due to the fact we do not suffer extreme cold conditions as the USA and Europe do, plus the added costs to building a house.... BUT these days it might be more feasible to do so now since we are coming more environmentally friendly and encouraged to cut down on our excessive energy consumption.

  • #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    673
    Thanks
    61
    Thanked 70 Times in 47 Posts
    Rep Power
    175
    Reputation
    786

    Default

    We insulated the house reasonably well but with energy costs rising and with the need to pull out the existing windows to replace the reveals I thought we might as well replace them. Looking on the net I did find some reference to plastic frames cracking or splitting. I will call the major window suppliers in my area tomorrow and get some idea of costs and their professional opinions on frame materials.

  • #8
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Discovery Coast Qld
    Age
    55
    Posts
    1,127
    Thanks
    114
    Thanked 369 Times in 228 Posts
    Rep Power
    293
    Reputation
    6667

    Default

    When everyone double glazes the cost goes down,it becomes dearer to get single glazing as its not the norm.

    .................................................. .....................
    I massively insulated a weatherboard cottage walls(had to re-plaster so could do it) and ceiling,got free second hand batts from demolishers.

    It was cosy, quiet and cost virtually nothing to heat or cool
    Last edited by Dishtrackted; 14-06-10 at 11:29 PM.

  • #9
    Premium Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Central Tablelands of NSW
    Age
    76
    Posts
    13,824
    Thanks
    1,242
    Thanked 3,803 Times in 2,523 Posts
    Rep Power
    1736
    Reputation
    56926

    Default

    I will disagree with Officemanager about the extremes of heat in OZ.
    Midwinter in the mountains where I live can go to minus 10C in winter to a maximum of 40C in summer.
    Just had 4 frosts in a row, down to minus 3C officially.
    Factor in the windchill from the winter Sou Westerlies experienced here adds to the heating bill.
    Along the coastal fringe they dont experience that low a temp unless your in Southern Tassie but add the more days of Summer heat and Humidity.
    Go inland and the winter temps go down maybe Minus 1 C or 2 but can peak at 53C in summer.
    A friend looked at a job at Hammersly Mines in WA and he was told to expect '100 degress (F) for 100 days'.
    Birdsville had a record number of days where the night temp never went under 40C.
    At White Cliffs they live in old mines where they can maintain a steady 25C all year around.
    For far too long we believed we didnt need insulation but with the cost of electricity and natural gas continualy increasing, it is becoming essential to properly insulated.
    I had kerosene heaters when Kero cost about a $2 a gallon, now its as dear as petrol at $4 a litre. Thats equal to $16 a Gallon.
    Coal and Coke were cheap and easily available as most houses had a chimney and an open fireplace and if you were a bit flash, you had a Kosi coke burning stove.
    Oil heating was the next rage untill that was priced out of peoples reach.
    Insulation isnt seen to be doing anything unlike an A/C or a Blazing Fire, real or otherwise but works BOTH ways,silently and at no further costs after installation.
    Last edited by gordon_s1942; 14-06-10 at 11:40 PM.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

  • #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    154
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 32 Times in 25 Posts
    Rep Power
    122
    Reputation
    152

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gordon_s1942 View Post
    I will disagree with Officemanager about the extremes of heat in OZ.
    Sorry Gordon, my statement on this topic was about the extreme cold weather... I did not mention heat regarding double glazing.

  • #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    673
    Thanks
    61
    Thanked 70 Times in 47 Posts
    Rep Power
    175
    Reputation
    786

    Default

    Another thing to ponder is reveal choice.
    Primed pine, meranti or KD.
    Primed pine appears to be the most common for painted installations.

  • #12
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    154
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 32 Times in 25 Posts
    Rep Power
    122
    Reputation
    152

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dogsbreath View Post
    Another thing to ponder is reveal choice.
    Primed pine, meranti or KD.
    Primed pine appears to be the most common for painted installations.
    Pine being soft wood and cheapest would not last as long meranti or KD so if you want a quality job... pay the extra and go for meranti 1st choice or KD for second choice.
    The window companies should verify the differences in wood.

  • #13
    Premium Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Central Tablelands of NSW
    Age
    76
    Posts
    13,824
    Thanks
    1,242
    Thanked 3,803 Times in 2,523 Posts
    Rep Power
    1736
    Reputation
    56926

    Default

    officemanager, I took your meaning too literaly in that regard as of course we dont go down to 0 Degrees F like they do in the Northern climes and converesly they dont rise to the heat levels we do here.
    I think our problem here is we dont see the need for insulating against Heat and kid our selves our winters are Mild across the whole country.
    Officemanager, you would have shot me down in flames if you had mentioned places like Halls Creek and Threbo where it gets bloody cold but because of its small area and very short Snow season, no one takes it as a Yardstick for the purposes of Insulation.
    Of course any person who pays good money to be cold and wet deserves to freeze their Backsides off !!!
    If we could formulate a table based on the two extremes for all solid walls and roof cavity/ceilings, then the need for double glazing to any windows based on your local area added to that and build accordingly, it would have to contribute to using less power to heat and cool.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

  • The Following User Says Thank You to gordon_s1942 For This Useful Post:

    officemanager (15-06-10)

  • #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    673
    Thanks
    61
    Thanked 70 Times in 47 Posts
    Rep Power
    175
    Reputation
    786

    Default

    Had a look at some Ecoclassic windows today, Hallam Victoria, which were on the top of my shortlist.
    They seem to be quite a good for an Aluminium window.
    The pro's for them
    Price. They get the windows manufactured and assembled in China.
    Quality and finish appeared to be good
    Claimed Lower U rating than most of their competition. Lower U is better - opposite to wall and ceiling insulation. 12mm airgap
    Offered pre primed hardwood reveals.
    Pushbutton locking awning winders.
    Rubber sealing around window frame.

    Undecided Features
    Double glazed modules siliconed into frames. Claim to seal better and increase rigidity and improve wind rating.

    Cons
    Delivery time 6 -8 weeks.
    Biggest for me is that they only have inline reveals (which helps get their lower U Value)
    Reveal is inline with the edge of the aluminium frame. The outside dimension of the reveal is the same as the outside dimension of the aluminium window. My existing windows are offset so the outside dimension of the aluminium window is the same as the inside dimension of my reveal.
    To utilise these windows will require additional packing between the wall frames, wider architraves to cover the additional gap and replacement of $1000's of Holland blinds and cedar venetian blinds because the reveal openings will be reduced.

  • #15
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    10

    Default double glazed windows from China

    Hi,
    Just a suggestion from personal experience whatever you do - do not buy pvc windows made in China. Yes they are cheap, but white frames go yellow after 1year they don't have any ultraviolet protection. Our friends bought windows from German supplier in Sydney and their tilt and turn windows is what attracted us, and we thought we were smarter by getting them cheaper, it didn't bother us that they were made in China, after all almost everything is! Now we are complaining to the supplier, but ofcourse they assured us verbally that its high quality etc but they are not prepared to replace them - you get what you pay for. We found out there are these reports you can get to tell you how the window will age. Get the UV test report from the company and check on their warranty. Also do you really want to spend thousands more on lawyers and hours on the phone and email complaining? Don't make that mistake! But our ugly yellow windows are still better than the old aluminium sliders we had, have to admit that - silence and no leaking during rain.

  • #16
    Senior Member Mods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Age
    50
    Posts
    591
    Thanks
    257
    Thanked 261 Times in 132 Posts
    Rep Power
    203
    Reputation
    2305

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by weirdo View Post
    I hope you're intending to use double glazing for thermal insulation and not sound insulation. (double glazing has no/minimal effect as sound insulation)
    Surely this isn't right. Every website I've seen, and everything I've heard and know would suggest that double glazing would reduce noise. ??
    Are you prepared to back upthese claims against all the double glazing websites that claim the opposite ?? Or is it just your experience with some 'uncommon' sound that tends to travel through walls pretty well ??

    Cheers.

    This explains it pretty well
    Last edited by Mods; 11-07-10 at 12:58 AM.
    When I was a kid, I used to have an imaginary friend. I thought he went everywhere with me. I could talk to him and he could hear me, and he could grant me wishes and stuff too. But then I grew up, and stopped going to church.

  • #17
    Senior Member Mods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Age
    50
    Posts
    591
    Thanks
    257
    Thanked 261 Times in 132 Posts
    Rep Power
    203
    Reputation
    2305

    Default

    PS, We have double glazing in one of 3 windows at work (small office - 3 windows). We can hear the people from the two ther offices a little, but not at all from the one window that is double glazed. Now fair enough one is very close, but the other two are very similar in their location, and we've always put the noise reduction down to the double glazing.
    When I was a kid, I used to have an imaginary friend. I thought he went everywhere with me. I could talk to him and he could hear me, and he could grant me wishes and stuff too. But then I grew up, and stopped going to church.

  • #18
    Administrator
    mtv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    17,515
    Thanks
    5,117
    Thanked 11,265 Times in 5,556 Posts
    Rep Power
    3925
    Reputation
    160415

    Default

    Double glazing is commonly used as acoustic treatment in all recording and broadcast studios.

  • #19
    Senior Member
    weirdo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    5,458
    Thanks
    4,638
    Thanked 3,134 Times in 1,632 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    29582

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mods View Post
    Surely this isn't right. Every website I've seen, and everything I've heard and know would suggest that double glazing would reduce noise. ??
    Are you prepared to back upthese claims against all the double glazing websites that claim the opposite ?? Or is it just your experience with some 'uncommon' sound that tends to travel through walls pretty well ??

    Cheers.

    This explains it pretty well
    About 15 years ago I was a site foreman for a local builder here.
    We were building 2-3 storey buildings. This one particular building we were building at the time had approval from our local council under the proviso that we used double glazing because it was situated between a busy road on one side and a railway track on the other.
    So I made some enquiries into it and ended up talking to Pilkington Glass.
    They advised me that double glazing the way it's sold has an absolute minimal effect on sound insulation. To be able to get some sort of sound insulation you need the gap between the two glazing panels to be a minimum of 50-100 mm. (Check on your own link page 4)

  • The Following User Says Thank You to weirdo For This Useful Post:

    Godzilla (11-07-10)

  • #20
    Administrator
    mtv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    17,515
    Thanks
    5,117
    Thanked 11,265 Times in 5,556 Posts
    Rep Power
    3925
    Reputation
    160415

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by weirdo View Post
    To be able to get some sort of sound insulation you need the gap between the two glazing panels to be a minimum of 50-100 mm.
    Yep..... this is the way double glazing is used in broadcast/recording studios.

    In addition to the distance between glass panels, they are also angled, so that any sound in the gap does not have even distances when it reflects and bounces off at angles, reducing resonance.

    Not practical in typical windows of course, but works extremely well in situations where it can be utilised.

  • Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •